Some of you may remember that I was going to buy a ZT and I promised I would let you know how I got on. Well, so far, it's been a disaster though not, I hasten to say, the fault of the car.
I picked up the ZT last Saturday at 11am - fantastic car, drove like a dream. I drove home, had lunch, then just driving locally and a white van ran into the side of my new car. This was 1pm. So I had the car 2 hours, then had an accident. As you can imagine, I was very upset!
The van driver pulled out of a side road into the side of my car and it was totally his fault, which he admitted at the scene. He said the sun was in his eyes!
I phoned my insurance company and arranged for my car to be sent for repair. I also said I needed a courtesy car. No problem, they say, a car hire company will call you.
So the courtesy car is delivered on Monday which I sign for. It's only later when reading the small print that I realise I have entered into a credit hire agreement with the car hire company under which, if they cannot recover the costs from the third party, they will expect me to pay. The thing is they gave me a Jag X-Type to drive. Initially I was very pleased, but the hire cost is £100 per day!
Now, as I said up-front, I know the accident was the fault of the third party, but what if he manages to pin the blame on me? I would then be expected to pay up.
But one of the benefits listed under my policy is the provision of a courtesy car. So I don't see why I should have to enter into a hire agreement where I am potentially liable given that I should get free use of a courtesy car anyway. TBH, the reason I signed up without checking was because I just assumed the car was being provided under the terms of my insurance policy.
I have tried to contact the insurance company loads of times to query this, but I get someone different every time I call, and no-one seems to be able to give me an answer.
I have today sent a complaint e-mail to them, and asked them to confirm that, if the hire company pursues me for the charge, they will pay it on my behalf.
Sorry for the length of this e-mail. But has anybody been in a similar position before? Am I worrying unnecessarily? Any advice appreciated.
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My DiL had a bump up the rear.
Her Ins Co does not supply car as part of teh Ins deal - howwever they claimed of the 3rd party Ins Co who agreed the hire cost whislt the car was in the garage.
Got the car back and the hire car was billed direct to the 3rd party insurer. The cost was around £30 / day.
The £100 / day contracts is stretching things - the 3rd party insurer may well pay for a car - say a Vectra /Mondeo at £30 / day - if you contract to a Jaguar (admittedly a Jaguar derived from a Mondaeo) they may well argue the split of the bill should be £30 to them and £70 to you.
Quite a famous case at the time - MB driver hires another MB as a hire car at an extortionate rate - Ins Co said that a large Vauxhall or Ford would have been a fraction of the cost and the chap lost his claim for hire car costs as teh Judge agreed with the 3rd party Ins Co.
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The thing is that, while I was happy to get a Jag, I didn't request it. It just turned up. I was expecting a Ford Ka! I did query the choice of car with the delivery driver, and he said that they try to provide an 'equivalent' car to your own. Not sure that I would argue that a ZT is equivalent to a Jag - but, as they don't make the ZT any more, it's difficult.
There is something in the paperwork to say that, if they provide a hire car larger/better than your own, they only charge for the 'equivalent' - so presumably they think the 'equivalent' of my car should cost £100/day.
My concern is that, say my car is off the road for 3 weeks, there will be a potential liability of £2,100 - and I don't want to have to pay it! TBH, I don't really care what I drive while my car is being repaired.
But I go back to the point that I don't think I should have to worry about any of this, as providing a courtesy car is a benefit under my policy.
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Forgot to mention - it might be a long car hire - certain body panels for a MG/Rover 75 are like hens teeth and you can wait weeks if not months for panels.
Better get matters sorted out ASAP
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Yes, thanks for that. I am well aware of that issue. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the parts will be available - front bumper and driver's side wing - must be quite a bit of demand for them.
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£100/day is above a commercial rate for an X-type. I can get a C-class for less than £50/day with one of the rental companies I use. X-types are unloved at the moment and Jag are dumping them to whoever will buy, inc some of the rental fleets.
The normal 'deal' is that the bodyshop provides the car as part of their contract with the insurance company.
I think you need to check this out very carefully......
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When people have pranged my wife's car and it's gone to the body shop it's the bodyshop that have provided a car. Her issue was the courtesy car was too big. I could have got a courtesy car when my Passat was off the road but took a hire car instead of the small bodyshop vehicle - so instead of a Fiesta I got an Alfa 156 2.0 :-)
I would be very warey of what has been signed/agreed. £100 per day for an X-Type does sound excessive. How much was the MG ZT in the first place.... you might find the X-Type for a month costs more than the MG ZT!
Just checked holiday autos for a hire car from Manchester Airport for 28 days....
- the X-Type/C-Class/BMW 318 comes to £2022.
- The Passat comes to £1274 (similar in class to an MG ZT? so £45/day)
But even at £2022 that's "only" £72 per day. A Mondeo is less than £600. The Focus is less than £500. The Ka about £439. The Aston Martin V8 Vantage or equivalent is about £19,444 though :-)
It sounds to me someone might make money out of you over this accident if not careful. You might be better giving the hire car back, sorting one yourself and claiming back the cost! This £100/day figure is shocking.
Another thought is insurance for the hire car. You do have full collision damage waiver etc. with it... check the small print.
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Just had another thought....
- even if the car hire cost is picked up by the third party at £100/day (so £3000+ per month!)
- the body panels and repairs take too long (e.g. panels not available)
- the price for a two year old MG ZT 2.5l 190 is around £8000 (less?)
As an insurance company I might make an offer for the car instead... another reason to be sure the hire car situation is sorted. It might be nice in an X-Type...
Still need to check why your insurance isn't providing a car until repaired/written-off regardless of third party. Maybe need to change insurance company next time.
EDIT: Curious on longer term hire costs... a Mondeo for 90 days is around £1930 or £21/day. Sadly the Aston Martin is over £60k ;-) Lets hope body parts available.
Edited by rtj70 on 19/01/2008 at 21:28
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Sorry to hear of the bump Primera Man, I would be gutted in the same situation.
If parts prove a problem try giving X-part's "Close Call" service a try, they specialise in sourcing panels and hard to find trim quickly to try and avoid cars being written off, the insurance company will be happy with this as they are brand new OEM parts.
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I'm sorry to hear that.wouldn't wish that upon anyone & thats seriously bad luck. However I had my xtype written off by a third party & the hire car was £1100 per week & I had to sign to say that if I was found to be at blame I would foot the bill!. After 2 weeks I sent the hire car back & bought an old banger. The claim actually took 9 weeks to settle. Which is still running 2 years later & saves loads of miles on my new x-type.
I foundf it impossible to get the insurance company to offer a garantee that they would cover the cost although whilst I had the hire vehicle it was keeping the claim going at a fast rate of knotts.
When you return the Hire car take photo's all round & walk around with whoever collects & check it thoroughly. Keep photo's for a year or two & make sure car is clean when returned.
You can never win with an insurance company. best of luck & hope you get your Rover back soon.
Doc
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Had a small accident (some numpty reversed his 4 by 4 into my parked car) Contacted my insurance on the number given, and the first call I received was from the legal amubulance chancer who was concerned to see if I was injured and if I wanted a hire car etc. Seemed to be a deliberate attempt to 'bump-up' the bill in all sorts of ways. In talking to my insurance after it turnded out that the body shop my car would be sent too offered a free courtesy car anyway so just used that instead.
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Update : decided to try to minimise the costs by swapping the X-Type for the cheapest car the hire company could provide. So I phoned them this am and explained I was concerned about costs rising, so wanted to swap. I was told that was not a good enough reason for swapping, so I would have to keep the Jag.
As you can imagine, not happy with that response. I thought I was the customer here. So it looks like I'll be phoning again tomorrow to speak to a manager.
Under the terms of my insurance, the repairer should offer me a courtesy car. So I think my insurance company should never have referred me to the car hire company in the 1st place. Unfortunately, the body shop have no courtesy cars available at the moment anyway.
In the telecon today, the car hire company did say they would only pursue me for the charges if I have lied to them - fine, as I have not. But that is not what the credit agreement says - that says simply that, if the charges cannot be recovered from the 3rd party, then I will have to pay up.
So I'm going to have an argument with the car hire company tomorrow. I have also sent a complaint to the insurance company and asked them to guarantee that I won't have to pay anything.
The garage have agreed to do the estimate on repairs to the MG by Wednesday, so I'm hoping by then to know how long the repairs will take (or, God forbid, whether they're going to write the car off if the spares are not available). That should at least mean I get a better idea of timescales.
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Primera Man - If there's any talk of writing it off get yourself on www.mg-rover.org and seek a bit of advice on there. many people have used Close Call to good effect and avoided having their cars written off.
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I hope they don't write the car off. Damage sounds light
My wife's policy says they provide car and insurance on the car is exactly the same. No Cody or risk of cost. This is MoreThan
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So I phoned them this am and explained I was concerned about costs rising
see www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=58
..... ..... ....
Sect. 148 "the fundamental principle is that a person whose car has been damaged is entitled to compensation for the loss caused. In a case where such loss includes loss of use and he establishes a need for a replacement, he is entitled to the cost of hiring a replacement car"
Temporary replacement cars are provided by Credit Hire Operators (CHOs) and the hire costs are normally recovered by the CHO from the Third-Party's insurer (the company insuring the "at-fault" driver). What is more, the "not-at-fault" motorist can request from the CHO a vehicle similar to the crashed one.
But before you take a temporary replacement hire-car make sure you get in writing that the Third-Party's insurer will pay for it. Do not assume he will until you have it in writing or you could find yourself liable to pay the full cost.
etc. etc. etc. etc.
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Surely they will write it off.
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The fact yours in Germany is now a right off... does not sound too good. Lets hope the panels needed on OPs car are available.
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Mine was the estate and the rear door offside rear panel. bumber and floor in the rear are US along with rear suspension.Rear tailgates new with full trim and rear wing panels are like wrocking horse manure the suspension is straight from a BMW 3 series even if they could or did repair it I would not except it.
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Update : spoke to the car hire company today and said (a bit more forcefully) that I wanted to terminate the agreement for the Jag and have a cheaper car instead. They tried to put me off but I persisted and eventually they agreed to swap for a 1.6 car (cost ~£40/day + VAT).
I know I could get a much cheaper car hire deal elsewhere but that would mean having to reimburse the cost myself and trying to claim back. The way things are at the moment, I know the car hire company will try to charge the 3rd party insurer first.
I was told again that they would never seek to charge me (though that is not what the contract says).
I was also told that, even if the accident was settled on a 50/50 basis, the car hire company would still make a profit. This I can believe, as the current charge of £80/day + VAT is apparently for a Mondeo. They upgraded me to a Jag as no Mondeos were available. Apparently the Jag should cost ~£150/day.
Clearly, the hire company is factoring into its rentals the risk that the 3rd party may not pay up. All I can say is no wonder insurance premiums are so high!
I do feel that moving to a 1.6 car is a fair compromise. It is clearly a step down from a 2.5 ZT (in my view, anyway), so I think I could demonstrate to the 3rd party insurer that I have taken steps to minimise my costs.
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But before you take a temporary replacement hire-car make sure you get in writing that the Third-Party's insurer will pay for it. Do not assume he will until you have it in writing or you could find yourself liable to pay the full cost.
Nice idea in theory. But in practice, I need a hire car now, not in 3 months time when the 3rd party insurer accepts liability!
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There's a story about this in HJ's column: tinyurl.com/2cj7jo - story called "Chapter and reverse".
My understanding is that this happens, and the insurance companies appear to condone it because, astonishingly, many have contracted out their claims management services to accident managment companies!
Edited by Bill Payer on 21/01/2008 at 22:09
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Which is why I pay a little more on my insurance to be provided with a courtesy car by my insurance company.
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Wife's A2 was written off July 06. Her policy with Tesco included replacement car for two weeks (1.0 corsa likely)
She had an A3 2.0 TDI SE (hardly like for like) which was recovered fully from the other parties insurer. Basis of the deal was as OP described, similar accident to OPs!
There is an industry springing up - one of the reasons why insurance premiums are rising.
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