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I think there are still old stock Pilot Primacys in the market, they are advertised on the Black Circles website.
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Pilot premacy is a differnt tyre to Primacy HP its old stock the tyres are now called Pilot and Premacy HP
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Many thanks for the replies.
On the Michelin website I went through specing my car and seeing what tyres they recommended. It is there that they show both the HP's and non-HP's.
Also Etyres.co.uk (who I can recommend) also offer both options.
The non HP's are obviously old stock then and I will order HP's. They are cheaper as well which is always a good sign.
Interesting comments from Graham regarding the Goodyears. Very sticky tyres but I only got 10k miles from them on my D5 S60.
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I did not have the Mazda 6 after the F1s were fitted long enough to gauge the wear, although it was the worst car I've ever had for 'eating tyres'! I've read some good feedback from other back roomers regarding the HPs. I'm tempted to swap the HPs to the front to really get any potential benefits. The OE Pilot Primacys had 3mm on the front and 5/6mm on the rear after 30k, my Focus is only a 1.6 petrol and not driven hard, but never the less impressive results I would say.
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Neither ! Both old-tech tyres now - best for your Focus is the new Pirelli P6, amazing tyre, or if the size isn't available try the Goodyear Excellence ....
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Both old-tech? HP's only released in 2006............?
I put the Pilot Primacy's on the rear of the S60 first and then when the Goodyears wore out at the front I replaced them with Primacy's. Interestingly having all 4 made not only a significant difference to noise and comfort (for the better) but with the 2 fitted on the back I got an extra 2 mpg and after all four were on I have averaged 53.4mpg over the last 30,000 miles as opposed to a rock-steady 47.9mpg before. A 5.5mpg improvement!
Yes the engine may have bedded in more over that time (now at 70k) but the difference was instantaneous.
If I felt I was sacrificing grip for wear I would not have made the change as I would rather have safe grippy tyres and replace them more often, but as it happens the Michelin's are sticker than the OE Pirelli P6000's
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Did you notice any improvements when you changed from Pilot Primacys to Primacy HPs?
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I have only tried the HP version and was unaware of it's predecesor until today when I looked to order 2 new tyres, and saw I had a choice between the two.
Knowing the HP version is the current one I will stick with that.
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Replaced original fit Bridgestone Turanza ER30 at 35K miles on my Mazda 6.Have Michelin HP's fitted now.Have covered 15K miles on them and they are wearing as well as the original Bridgestones and are quieter.My Mazda 6 is the easiest on tyres of any car I have had.Most of my previous vehicles have struggled to exceed 30k miles on a set,but with my mainly motorway driving it would at a push acheive near 40K miles.
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My 6 (TS diesel 2004 pre facelift) had the mis-aligned rear suspension problem as highlighted by HJ's car-by-car breakdown.
The rear tryes needed replacement after 18000, Mazda would do nothing about the problem, had an independent laser 4 wheel track which cured the problem. The report stated that the rear tracking was so far out that the car had either been involved in a serious accident or made like it.
It was the latter, the 6 was a great car apart from the handling which was so vauge over 70 mph, I would not buy another one due to dealer attitude (at least Ford go some way to fix problems). I'm very pleased you are happy with your car and the tyres.
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What size tyres are you driving on Sfd ?
The fronts need replacing (I've read the other thread regarding new rubber on back axle) on my S60 D5 and I will not be replacing like for like (P6000's) as they are possibly the worst tyres I have ever experienced on a car, poor wet weather grip and horrible tramlining.
Tyre size on my car is 225/45x17.
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Hi Gmac, I resisted the urge to get the 17" wheels and went for the 16" ones (purely for a slightly less agressive ride). Therefore I am on 205/55x16.
I would recommend you give the Michelin Primacys a go. I always have put new onto the back having seen a program about it a few years ago the demonstrated the issue enough to convince me. When I had just the 2 Primacy's on the back I was initially unconvinced. They 'chirupped' (squeeled) a bit at roundabouts when I was being a trifle enthusiastic which made me think they were not gripping so well.
But I perservered and added another two to complete the set when the Goodyear fronts had worn out and actually the Michelin's have plenty of grip. The improvement in noise (reduction that is!) and ride is quite marked and was enough to convert me. The wear is very impressive. As we know the D5 has a lot of torque and I am an 'enthusiastic' driver shall we say so the mileage I have got from the fronts is very good and the rears 30k on still have nearly 5mm left. Astonishing really. The fuel consumption improvement was a real eye opener. I never reset my mileage trip so I was stunned to see it going up and up after I had all 4 tyres on.
Any negatives? Yes, more expensive and a little more noticable aquaplaning now they are completely worn. New ones being fitted this afternoon at £165 for two by a local co that actually does the fitting for Etyres but can beat their pricing.
The 17" ones for your car will be a bit more I am afraid.
I would be interested in your thoughts if you go for them. The goodyears I tried by the way were the Eagle's which were sticky but gave less than 10k miles on the front.
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My Accord came on pilot primacies (205/55 R16) and they lasted reasonably well. Three sets on the front at around 30k each set and around 45k per set on the back.
Conming back from France last May we had a puncture on the M25 and not wanting to travel far on the Space Saver ended up in Romford where having asked for a Michelin to match (lease car controls what gets fitted) they fitted a HP saying it was the replacement.
It is now on 4 HPs. The first one is on the front and has done over 30k and still has about 4mm left! On that basis it is better than the Pilot Premacy. No noticable difference in grip.
The Pilot Premacy is asymetrical, the HP is not.
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Hi Sfd,
I'm still a little undecided on what tyres to go for.
Over on the VOC site they highly recommend Goodyear F1 GSD3's or whatever their replacement is now though if they give less than 10k as you say won't be worth the money.
I'm also tempted to give the Fulda Carat's a go. I used these on my FIAT Coupe running over 300bhp and got about 17k out of a front set the backs were only half worn after 45k miles. That was on 205/50x16 rims.
The rear tyres I find on any front wheel drive car get very little wear and, if they are not switched, perish before the tread runs out.
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Hi Gmac,
It was the F1 Eagle GSD3's I had. Maybe it was my driving style that caused the rapid wear.
I have no knowledge of the Fuldas. I am lucky in as much as my car is a company car and I have free reign to buy what I think I want / need. I posted on here some time ago asking for suggestions on the stickiest tyres (wear no object) and the Goodyears were well recommended.
The Michelin's however are just as grippy IMHO. I tried them because HJ regularly suggests them for a quieter, smoother ride and I thought 'why not?. Glad I did. I never really thought tyres varied that much but they clearly do.
My view on tyres is that I want them sticky, quiet and safe. It just so happened that the company I work for is benefiting from immensely better value for money because they need replacing less often and I don't have to spend ages comparing prices and sitting here waiting for the guy to come and fit a new set every 3 months. The other benefit is that we are getting an extra 5mpg. Across 30k that makes some considerable difference.
I agree the P6000's are poor on an S60. They were the original tyres my S60 came with. I always had these on a Mondeo before and the traction always seemed terrible in the wet. However my MD swears by them on his V70. Mind you he hasn't tried anything else yet. My experiences have convinced him to give the Primacy's a go next time round though.
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Sfd,
Which Primacy tyres do you have ? I can see:
225/45R17 - 94V PILOT PRIMACY XL (TL) MICHELIN
225/45R17 - 91Y PILOT PRIMACY (TL) MICHELIN
225/45R17 - 94W PRIMACY HP GRNX EL (TL) MICHELIN
Obviously the first are out as they are only V rated. The HP variety are the cheaper of the other two options. The 91Y are a match on spec. of the P6000's I have.
How do these tyres work in the Winter ? I see they are rated as summer tyres on my suppliers website.
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Hi Gmac,
On etyres.co.uk I see 225/45R17W Primacy HP. They are pricy though.
I think the XL's are Extra Load tyres (heavy duty / heavy car?) The Primacy (TL) are probably the old version of the Primacy tyre (see start of thread) and the last one on your list is the one to go for, the HP version. For my size of tyre the HP was cheaper as well.
I always try to have good tyres ready for the winter and these were just fine for last winter (and the spring and what we saw of the summer for that matter.
I have just been doing some rough calculations and I reckon the improvement in fuel economy has over the last 30,000 miles actually paid for the tyres completely. I am a little mathmatically challenged but it would be interesting to work out the saving.
On the 16" version I am paying £165 all in for 2 tyres.
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I think 'summer tyres' in this context are just those that aren't winter-specific not studded snow tyres, in other words.
Now you've decided, SFD, you might like to revisit this thread in a little while with your findings. I'll be watching with interest: a change of job means I'm about to start exercising my S60 rather more again. It's back on four 205x16 P6000s at the moment, which I find OK, but if you find the Primacy works out substantially quieter, it may convince me to cough up the extra for Michelins next time round. Especially if you really are getting over 50mpg; my average is about 42.
Just to add my observations so far, the car came on P6000s, but the lease company insisted on Michelin Primacy when the first two wore out. They went on the back, and I can't say I really noticed any difference. By the time the other two P6000s wore out, I'd bought the car myself and I chose P6000s on the grounds of adequacy and cost - about £60 a pair less than the Primacy.
This moved the Michelins to the front and again, I'm not sure I noticed much difference. But then I had to replace them last winter, chose P6000s again and I'm suddenly wondering whether the steering feels quite as good as it used to, or if there's more roar over coarse surfaces. Unlike SFD, I've never managed a complete set of Primacys. (Although I think I did on the Saab I had before.)
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Afternoon Will (or should that me Mr.DeBeest? :0) )
Well I have just had them fitted, they are Primacy HP's again so there will probably be little to report. Great tyres. Expensive but only on initial outlay. I was getting 20k from the P6000's which was consistant with what I used to get on the Mondeo I used to have shod with them. The P6000's used to squirm a bit setting off on greasy roads, even with the DSTC turned on. The Primacy's seem less inclined to do so.
I expect Gmac's observations depending on what he choses might either concur or dispute my findings or provide some alternative interest if he goes for the Fuldas.
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Hi Sfd,
I finally replaced the P6000's on the front. They were almost down to the wear indicators. I went to the garage and the intention was to go for the Fulda tyres as discussed above but they did not have any in stock.
Fallback plan was the Goodyear F1's. Approx. £175 lighter in the wallet department but for two 225/45x17's I think that's a pretty good deal.
Immediately noticed how much quieter the car is, the only sound now is the engine and the tramlining has all but disappeared - based on the eight-or-so mile drive from the garage.
I will get a better feel for them over the coming weeks, SWMBO drives the car more than I do. Impressive rim protectors built into the sidewall though!
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Hi gmac,
Interesting that you found them quieter. On my 16" wheels I noticed little diference between the P6000's and F1's, but I did when I changed to the Primacys.
The Goodyears were grippy sure enough, and considering that already the weather is a bit poor, these were probably a good choice for you for the winter. Good price you paid too.
It will be interesting to see how you get on with the wear level. As most S60's (and V70's for that matter) are in SE spec, with the 17" Alloys, your review on tyres is probably more relevent to most.
Since I fitted the new Michelin's there has been no measurable wear and they are as quiet and stocky as before.
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Interesting. Probably won't be more than a couple of months before two of the P6000s on my S60 D5 need replacing, and I think I'm convinced that I would be better off with something else. Like SFD, mine is an S (don't like sitting on leather, never use foglights), so I'm looking at 205/55 x 16 91W tyres.
Observations on the P6000s:
* No problems with grip in wet or dry, at least not the way I drive;
* Wear rate seems consistent - pretty well every car I've had has needed two tyres every 18,000 miles or so;
* Noise is OK but is probably higher than the demonstrator that sold me on the S60 back in 2002. That was an SE, on 17-inchers that may well have been Michelins. (Mine came on P6000s.)
* Since reverting to all P6000s (had Primacys on the front till last year), I've been noticing something nasty about the steering feel at low speeds, especially on poor surfaces. Don't think it's anything mechanical - the car runs perfectly straight at motorway speeds.
So, based on this and SFD's observations, I'm thinking I should buy two Primacy HPs this time, and two more when the other pair come due. I'll talk to my friendly independent about prices; SFD's £165 is only marginally more than I paid for the last pair of P6000s.
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* Since reverting to all P6000s (had Primacys on the front till last year) I've been noticing something nasty about the steering feel at low speeds especially on poor surfaces. Don't think it's anything mechanical - the car runs perfectly straight at motorway speeds.
Does the car follow any ruts or overbanding (the shiny strip on the road where two pieces of road are joined) ? If so, that is the tramlining most S60's suffer on P6000's.
It's especially bad on the 17" wheels with 225/45 section tyres at any speed. Feels like the tyres are under inflated and constant correction required to the steering wheel.
Volvo Owners Club members recommend Goodyears or Primacys at the top end.
Falken FK-452's get good reviews, as do Toyo Proxies T1-R, if you don't want to have your wallet emptied too much.
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>Does the car follow any ruts or overbanding...
Yes, sounds like it could be that. It certainly feels like the road having undue influence on the car, rather than just the car itself behaving badly - if you see what I mean! I'll try to pin it down some more, and I'll try the Owners' Club too - thanks for that tip.
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Me again. I now have two Primacy HPs on my wagon, which doesn't scan very well but should be a step in the right direction. Of course, they're on the rear wheels (!) so I'll have to wear out the other pair of P6000s before I can be sure if I've got anything in return for the extra cash. I've not really been anywhere today, so it's too soon to judge anything.
Incidentally, when I was phoning the local dealers the other day, one laughed out loud when I told him the car was on P6000s. He agreed I'd be better off with HPs but also recommended the Uniroyal Rallye 550 as a lower-priced option. The next shop I called - the one I usually use anyway - offered me HPs for £5 a wheel less than the other chap wanted for Uniroyals, so that's where the debate ended, but I wonder whether anyone else has tried these, or would like to.
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BTW the original Primacy HP is still going strong, about 3mm left, it might last until the car goes back in March! Up to 44k now and it is on the front.
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Finally got the original Primacy HP changed last week - did 45k. Oddly enough the one on the nearside was worn about the same and has only done 25k - got changed as well. Same axle, same treatment, same pressures!
The ones on the back will still be on when the car goes back - they have also done 25k.
Have they changed the compound?
And Kwik fit mobile put the two new ones on the front where the worn ones came off.
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I'll see if I can make mine last that long - might be possible with the amount of gentle motorway use they're getting.
After a month and 1500+ miles, I'm well pleased with my new HPs. Even on the back wheels, they seem to reduce the squirming the car used to do over poor surfaces when it was on four P6000s. (There's a bit on my way home, joining the A40 just before it becomes the M40, where I have to accelerate and move promptly across to the middle lane. The combination of rutted tarmac and four P6000s used to make this quite an alarming manoeuvre; it's much easier now.)
Expense aside, I'm rather looking forward to wearing out the two remaining Pirellis and getting the thing onto four Michelins instead.
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Just out of interest, i've got an S60 with sport pack fitted, 18" alloys, does anyone know the original size tyre fitted to these wheels, thanks.
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Should be 235/40's on 18" wheels.
I've changed the bottom wishbone bushes on my car to Polybushes. No downside to the ride but the front wheels feel like they are connected to the car again.
I was amazed at how much play there was in the standard bushes after 42k miles.
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If you have decided on Primacy HP's, then get them from Costco. Price simply can't be beaten
(especially if you get them on a buy 4 & get 20% off deal - they'll fit two, and let you bring the other two back for fitting when you need them.)
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On the Costco deal in April, it says 20% off for energy saver tyres. Does this mean that you can't get the Primacy HPs?
A few months ago I got some Michelin tyres from a local independent £5 cheaper each than Costco, and they fitted them to the front wheels!
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hanks gmac, i've just got the car and noticed its got 225/40/18 on all 4 wheels, cars only done 25000, and the front ones look quite new, so assuming the rears are original this size isn't right then
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"A few months ago I got some Michelin tyres from a local independent £5 cheaper each than Costco, and they fitted them to the front wheels! "
I recently bought a set of michelins from Costco at a very sensible price. Whil I was waiting I watched a very informative video demonstrating why new tyres should be fitted to the back rather than front. I think if you had seen it you might not be quite so pleased to have your new tyres on the front, as I understand Costco and many others will only fit two new tyres to the rear. Having had it explained and demonstrated to me I can well understand why now.
MGs
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MGspannerman, my rear tyres were about half worn, so they had plenty of tread. I put the new tyres on the front because I wanted them all to wear out at the same time. Then I would be able to get one of Costco's offers which only apply when you buy 4 tyres.
If you listen to Costco's argument you will never be able to get 4 tyres at once, because only the front ones will ever wear out. This is on a front wheel car of course.
And I am perfectly able to catch a rear wheel drift, not that I have to do so at my advancing years.
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Hi Quizman, interesting point you make. I had heard about the new tyres on rear wheels issue but never really bought it, as I always assumed the best tyres shoud be on the front due to the braking requirement. I took a look at roadsafe.com and this is what they said
"...The reference tyre with 6.7 mm tread depth stopped in an average distance of 23.89 metres (77.64 ft). There was little deterioration with the tyres at 4.1mm, but from this point and below the stopping distances significantly lengthen (dry asphalt) ...and later on ... These independent tests, clearly corroborate historical data and confirms that during the second half of the tyre?s service life its wet weather performance significantly reduces (tested on wet surface).
So if your tyres are half worn or more and the road surface wet, then you could be testing your driving skills. Why not do what has been mentioned earlier in this thread and buy 4, and have the other two fitted by Costco later apparently at no charge. Personally when I changed my tyres I was happy to sacrifice a few millimetres of rubber in order to get the discount and avoid having to come back at a later date. Anyway good luck to you, and I hope you dont have an elderly Porsche 911!
MGs
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Hi prm36,
I personally wouldn't worry about them "only" being 225's. Having said that, just checked inside the fuel flap on mine and the only size listed for 18" wheels is 235/40.
Edited by gmac on 29/03/2008 at 11:58
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Thanks gmac, i'll have a look, thought maybe the 235's might rub the inner arches thats why 225's were fitted.
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I'm surprised the 225's on 18's aren't rubbing. I have Goodyear F1 225/40 on 17's and they rub.
The only brand I've heard which don't rub on 17's are Pirelli P6000's, the downside being they're not much good at braking, steering, the general day to day tyre stuff on an S60. I've used them on a Peugeot 206 1.6 and they were fine, just not so good on bigger, heavier cars in my experience.
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I needed 4 new tyres for my s60 and found this thread.
Some 9 months on Michelin seem to be no further forward in explaining to the customer or indeed their specialised outlets why buy Pilot Primacy or primacy HP.
The otherwise excellent dealer i went to sells new stock of both types at the same price but apart from the tread pattern could not explain why i should choose one or the other.
The Michelin website shows both tyres as current product and says the HP brakes better in the wet.
Any way this thread did highlight the HP as a good choice over the P6000.
So i had 4 fitted yesterday. I also had a laser track setup and a slight tweak to the geometry.
I find the S60 is nicer to drive, sharper turns and less resistance to the wheel.
Braking seems smoother and there is less tyre noise. Small ruts seem less intrusive, big bumps still crash the suspension.
How much of this is down to new rubber, the Michelins or the laser test who knows but £500 lighter i tell myself it was the premium HPs!!
For me 16" wheels on the SE spec would have been better but hey the marketing men say we all want to look good in our motors. Any SE type spec has to have big wheels. I noticed HJ report on the new C5 that the higher spec includes 17" wheels.
Thanks to all who input on the HPs and could some of you tell us how they are going after a few K miles?
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Hi Rodger,
The difference is that the HP's are the latest version of the Primacy. The stock of the others he had was old stock. They are on Michelin's website but they are not currently produced. You chose the right ones anyway.
The HP's that I had fitted are still going strong 25,000 miles on with 4mm left at the fronts. This is pretty staggering considering the torque of the D5 engine and the way I drive. They are more susseptable to aquaplaning but that is the only negative. The main possitive apart from the wear rate is the dramatically improved fuel consumption. I went from 47.9mpg with the Pirellis and Goodyears to now averaging over 55mpg. This may also have something to do with the engine being more settled after 88,000 miles but the instant improvement when I put the new tyres on was an extra 5mpg. Havn't done the maths but suspect that improvement has paid for the tyres pretty much already, certainly covered the extra cost over other tyres.
I too prefer the 16" wheels and think the 17" ones would have broken my spine by now when allied to the not-so-compliant suspension.
Sadly I will not be able to update any further as my S60 is being traded in on Friday for a nice shiny new 5 Series BMW Touring. I wish the new owner (whoever they end up being) a happy time in my lovely Volvo!
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