And there's the huge question mark over reliability on the newer cars.
But then this clearly isn't a concern for Brit buyers -- the number of people I know who bought a car new, had no end of trouble with it ... and then bought another of the same make (not mentioning any names, but that French company keeps coming up). Gluttons for punishment it seems.
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what about those that did and didnt have any problems? more of them, but as it doesnt fit your requiremensts we shall ignore it shall we?
can i sell you my wifes clio? now she has another as the first one went wrong *so* often..
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Don't you just hate it when you are part of some niché, and then it becomes all 'mainstream'.
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Don't you just hate it when you are part of some niché and then it becomes all 'mainstream'.
Is a niché a super-exclusive kind of niche?
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isnt that where you send the kids when you are working?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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> Don't you just hate it when you are part of some niche, and then it becomes all 'mainstream'.
Know what you mean, Ashok. Five years ago, when I made my move to diesel (prompted at first by the new BIK rules that coincided with my company car coming up for renewal), there weren't many ordinary cars - the four-cylinder, petrol-powered sort that made up 95% or more of the traffic in them days - that could keep pace with a TDI 130 or a Volvo D5 and, I confess, it did feel rather good to be in charge of something that could accelerate so fast with so little apparent effort. (Let's be clear about this: I don't mean trying to out-drag boy-racer Subarus or similar hooligan behaviour - just the ability to get past a slower vehicle in a short stretch of dual carriageway or, ahem, leave a BMW 318i miles behind on a hill.) Now that just about every medium or large car out there has a CR or PD diesel too, everyone else can do the same. Not a problem really, of course, but it was nice while it lasted.
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Don't you just hate it when you are part of some niché and then it becomes all 'mainstream'.
Remember 12 or 13 years ago pulling up to a derv pump in my e36 3 series and a black cab driver being surprised.
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Remember 12 or 13 years ago pulling up to a derv pump in my e36 3 series and a black cab driver being surprised.
Well I remember when dad got his first diesel, way back in 1979, how diesel pumps for cars were quite hard to come by. You usually had to resign yourself to the truckers pumps, and boy did they think you were mad! The car was a Peugeot 305 GRD, by the way. All 1600cc of it!
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...now she has another as the first one went wrong *so* often..
tvm - that is not the mark of a very good salesman. being that honest won't help you with your entry still on display in the classified.
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I can be as bigotted as you!!
"i do 4000 miles a yr so the fuel economics dont work out"
Fair enough
"they are noisy at start up... "
Not so - well at least our HDis aren't
"they arnt as easy to work on the engines"
Depends if you need to - had 6 Cit diesels so far, over 500k in them and the only thing touched on the engines has been a couple of sets of glowplugs - and even I managed to do that.
"your supposed to wear gloves at the pumps when u fill up"
Really? - I never have.
"the power band is actually quite small..between 2000-4000 rpm on most diesels"
Well ours rev up to 4500 quite happily though I rarely have to. After all, in top gear one can go from 2000 to 3000 revs and increase speed from 60 to 90 mph, and at a decent rate. What fun it must be to ahve to keep revving up to 8000 (is that so you can make decent progress - or just to make a lot of noise? Anyway, it's horses for courses - I prefer the characteristics of a diesel, you like revving to 8000
"costs more environmental issues"
As much as revving to 8000?
"as the parts underneath are all uprated..because of the heavier engine lump"
Really? I never knew that - give me some examples of Citroen uprated parts for the diesels.
"there's the huge question mark over reliability on the newer cars."
Xantia HDi still goig strong at 90k - long may it continue
--
Phil
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I'm with you on this PhilW, but as you say, if some people think reving to 8,000 rpm is the more efficient way of doing things there really is no point in trying to get them to see the light!!
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what about those that did and didnt have any problems? more of them but as it doesnt fit your requiremensts we shall ignore it shall we?
Sigh. All I was saying was that the person who buys a car -- any car -- has no end of trouble with it, complains bitterly about it all the time and expects others (with more reliable cars) to pick up the tabs of going to customer sites at the last minute because their car has broken down -- then proceeds, after two years of annoying others around him, to buy another example of the self-same car -- clearly cares not about reliability, however much they bleat.
How's your's wife's Clio's bonnet catch doing by the way? ;)
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fine, even my wife is bright enough to shut the bonnet properly.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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fine even my wife is bright enough to shut the bonnet properly.
Bright woman then -- apparently driving instructors are too thick to manage the task.
www.dsa.gov.uk/recall.asp?id=SX129A-A782B525&cat=5...2
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www.dsa.gov.uk/recall.asp?id=SX146D-A782ACB4&cat=5...0
So that proves what exactly?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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That an old, rebadged Fiesta is potentially unsafe? (Yes I see what you have done there).
This particular warning by the DSA is striking because it is the first time that the DSA have issued a warning about a car the manufacturer says is perfectly OK.
Now either there are a bunch of people with axes to grind who are making a mountain out of a molehill (and the DSA put this in place after a lad in Sheffield had a nasty shock when the bonnet flew up in his driving test), or Renault is in denial on this one.
I work with some VOSA guys, and they've been talking about the Clio bonnet issue for a couple of years now. Very peculiar that nothing seems to be being done.
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wel as i said before, the road is littered with dead and dying people all caused by the clio bonnet flying up. NOT
IF the vosa guys are were that concerned they would have forced a recall.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Well given that it seems to be enough of an issue to spark the interest of VOSA, DSA and some TV programmes/magazines, it'd be interesting to see how the statistics compare with similar volume small cars like the Corsa, 206 and Fiesta.
Like I say the alternative is a grand conspiracy, and if that is the case that's just as interesting as there being a fault. What's the motive? Is Toyota trying to smash Renault's case for saying their cars are safe? Or is Renault desperately trying to cling to their safety stamp by burying this one because they know damn well they'd be damaged significantly if they admitted anything? Who knows.
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I used to be a dyed-in-the-wool petrol devotee. Then I bought a diesel and have had them (with one exception) ever since.
I do about 14-15K a year, so the extra mileage is more than worth it. I only keep them for 6 months so reliability isn't a problem for me. They are NOT noisy any more, in fact my mate's just bought a BMW 320d and I didn't realise it was a diesel till I looked at the revcounter...
Re: powerbands, when I drive a petrol car now it feels odd. I am not saying bad, or wrong, just miss the turbo power boost! And yes, it is a relatively narrow powerband, but it suits the way I drive.
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never!!! i do 4000 miles a yr so the fuel economics dont work out they push out sooo much soot
Only diesels with a problem do this, as is the caseth the noxious fumes chucked out by many badly maintained petrol cars.
they are noisy at start up... i work at 4.30am..nice for the neighbours
Not nowadays.
they arnt as easy to work on the engines...imho
Valid point
your supposed to wear gloves at the pumps when u fill up!!! weird
Why ?
the power band is actually quite small..between 2000-4000 rpm on most diesels....my honda revs till 8000.. nice!! (i said MOST diesels)
Why do you need an engine that has to be revved to near destruction to produce power ?
its costs more environmental issues to make as the parts underneath are all uprated..because of the heavier engine lump
Yes but the longevity of a diesel should compensate for this.
If you dont do much mileage then you are right in saying there is no case for the diesel. My wife does 5K a year and I wouldn't dream of getting her a diesel. To my way of thinking diesels are no good anyway if they dont get regular long hard drives. I do about 22K a year both in the UK and on the continent and my diesel Audi excels in this environment.
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I'm going back to petrol. My Renault dCi has been faultless but:
1. I only do 10K a year, savings are not great enough.
2. Very much more complex engineering. Potential repair bills are far higher than a petrol. Alternator clutches, DMF's etc.
3. Any half decent garage can fix a petrol engine. Not so a diesel.
4. The 1.6 VTT Renault engine gives more BHP, gets within 10 to 15MPG of the diesel and is cheaper to buy.
5. Diesels are noisier than petrols, although the gap is much smaller than it used to be.
6. I just want a change. Nice car, wrong owner...
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Irrespective of mileage I wouldn't run a diesel unless the RFL wasn't stacked in favour of them. The sheer complexity of modern ones make them a massive liability. Also in the case of what I run the fuel consumption differences aren't that huge. Depreciation is a much greater cost than fuel.
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I'm pretty much with Xileno.
The modern diesels I have driven are nice to drive and suit my style, but I don't do enough miles to justify paying the extra to buy one. In the end it comes down to purchase price, and it seems to me that petrol engines still offer better value - crudely judged in bhp per £.
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- crudely judged in bhp per £.
You said it........
And as for 8000RPM when was the last time you drove into town and hit the limiter? Or on the open road come to that......
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4. The 1.6 VTT Renault engine gives more BHP gets within 10 to 15MPG of the diesel and is cheaper to buy. 5. Diesels are noisier than petrols although the gap is much smaller than it used to be.
It may produce more bhp but it produces considerably less torque. Diesels are also much quieter and more relaxed at motorway speeds, unless you are telling me something I don't know about Renault diesels?
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I think there's still a lot to be said for a diesel, particularly for the private motorist. A few things spring to mind...
The slightly higher servicing costs (as compared with an equivalent petrol) are offset by fuel economy, even if you aren't doing mega-miles.
The issue of complexity is often raised here, but I don't think there's much scientific merit in it. If (say) 30% of new cars bought are diesels, then we can reasonably expect 30% of nearly-new car foibles occur in diesel cars. Once these are cured (often under warranty), the owner is still left with a more robust engine which will usually be under less stress when running, won't be damaged as much by stop-start driving and which will last longer.
Yes, CR fuel-system and DMF faults are possible on diesel cars, but by no means inevitable or even likely.
In any case, catalyst fauts, fuel system problems, geabox issues and ignition gremlins are equally as possible on a petrol car - the potential for big bills will always be there. In my opinion you are far better looking at reliability surveys than fuel type if you want to hedge your bets.
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It may produce more bhp but it produces considerably less torque.
Yes you are correct and this can make for relaxed driving. I have recently come back from the Auvergne where I spent most of a day charging up and down twisty mountain roads. Great fun and third gear would take me everywhere.
Diesels are also much quieter and more relaxed at motorway speeds unless you are telling me something I don't know about Renault diesels?
At higher speeds I would agree particularly as many of the Renault dCi's now have six speed gearboxes (mine doesn't). At lower speeds pottering around town and at idle especially when cold there is more noise. Not intrusive or irritating (and miles better than the VAG TDI's in this respect) but definitely noisier.
The Renault dCi engine offers a great blend of economy, performance and refinement. But at 10K a year I am not sure it was a good decision of mine.
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