Excellent Bagpuss. I was wondering how to make the point about British regional accents without sounding poncy.
Of course these incomprehensions can be reciprocal!
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Indeed....
My one further point would be: it is (to my mind) perfectly acceptable to have an accent (although one should tone it down where necessary sometimes!) as log as you're understood.... it's dialect and glottal stops and all that that cause the problems. Like, innit?
I have a failry broad Northern/Midlands accent but I can E N U N C I A T E clearly and I drop all the Cheshireisms when I need to (ie speaking to clients etc!!).
Although looking through my entries today, I see I used the phrase (with reference to a DSG gearbox) "...it gets a cob on". Sorry sorry sorry to anyone outside o't North! : )
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I guess the one group of people that its safe to take a shot at these days is the white British working class (the scummy Chavs etc). Never heard of anyone getting into trouble for that.
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Was anyone taking a shot at the white British working class Aprilia? Seem to remember seeing something somewhere to the effect that the use of the word 'chav' was just such a shot, and deplorable for that reason. My memory is that it was in a column in the Daily Terrorflag, but then again it might have been here...
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It was Julie Burchill Lud, I think it's the Grauniad she was writing for. After the article was published, she also did a TV prog about it.
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Thanks stevied. I saw that programme and it was a remarkably sympathetic piece of polemic (although I have to say la Burchill normally annoys me greatly... must be because she's white and working class).
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That'll be it! : ) Same here: she annoys me, but I find her articles and indeed programmes compelling....
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I guess the one group of people that its safe to take a shot at these days is the white British working class (the scummy Chavs etc). Never heard of anyone getting into trouble for that.
Not sure whether this was aimed at my post above, but an interesting comment none the less.
My feeling is that the UK is in danger of embracing political correctness almost to the extent of the USA, where you have have to be unbelievably careful about saying anything that could vaguely be understood as offensive by any "minority". "Minority" in this context, I discovered from an american acquaintance, means anyone not white and male. My acquaintance confirmed that politically correct americans (himself included - VP of a large US corporation) see women as a minority and even managed to say it without either laughing or seeing the irony. Assuming the same rules apply to use of political correctness in the UK, it means you are right, I can write a post criticizing the communication abilities of male white minimum wage slaves without fear of reprisal as they are not a "minority".
Maybe a better reply to the OP would have been the Indian taxi drivers in New York who are notorious for neither understanding nor speaking english and for not knowing their way around Manhattan. They can tell when you don't give them a 20% tip though.
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>> Not sure whether this was aimed at my post above, but an interesting comment none the less.
Yes it was, and I agree with your post above. There is the big danger of backlash one day though....
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Bus?
Whats a bus?
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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What an abysmal, xenophobic thread. Wouldn't this be better on pistonheads? Where is the motoring relevance to this.
In London, it doesn't matter WHAT language the driver speaks, as you never have to speak to him. Buy your tickets at a machine on the pavement, or use your Oyster card. So much easier.
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Amen mapmaker
you the man
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What an abysmal, xenophobic thread.
Why?
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>>Why?
Why? Because of the nonsense being spouted here. It's certainly irritating not to be able to ask the driver where to get off for Trafalgar square. However it is no more than irritating; not dangerous:
1. 'Drivers need to speak English in case of an emergency'. On a Routemaster bus, the driver is unable to access the body of the bus itself. I've seen a conductor left behind on the pavement... how dangerous was that? Not at all.
2. How on earth is a bus driver to speak to his passengers anyway? How loudly can you shout over a diesel engine and a hundred noisy passengers?
3. What about foreign coach drivers with British passengers on board. I am sure that often enough these foreign-run trans-Europe coaches have foreign staff and Britsh passengers; strangely I don't remember hearing the cries of outrage.
4. Ever been on an internal British flight run by a foreign airline? Shocking.
5. A Polish driver took a cooker on the bus. Well, that could never happen with an English-born driver, could it.
Face it, driving a bus is well down the social scale. People do it because they have no other choice. Bus drivers are always a target of abuse; Polish, English or Welsh.
Dear moderators; please lock this thread. It is not motoring related.
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The PC brigade kick in as usual.
I think there's an academic at Cambridge at the moment that they're trying to hound out of his job because he is suggesting that there should be a limit on immigration - this is nowadays interpreted as 'racism' and 'xenophobia'. I most definitely think this thread is not xenophobic - the accusation is just being used to stop any kind of discussion. There are positive and negative aspects to immigration, and one thing that has to be considered is the impact of large numbers of non-English speaking workers in the transport industry, as well as commercial vehicle operators from Eastern Europe and foreign-registered/insured private cars.
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The PC brigade kick in as usual.
matey, you're being a jerk or yo having a laf ain't ya. one minute you are in the anti-capitalist, anti-profit, anti-business left lane; and the next you are in the ultra nationalist anti-immigration right lane.
stay in the middle lane where dawdling jerks belong.
little englander xenophobia is apparent, through and through.
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matey, you're being a jerk
Pot. Kettle. Black.
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>>Why? Why? Because of the nonsense being spouted here. It's certainly irritating not to be able to ask the driver where to get off for Trafalgar square. However it is no more than irritating; not dangerous:
Irritating? You wait for a bus, ask the driver if he goes to X, and he responds in Polish. What do you do? Sorry but IMO speaking basic English is a bare minimum for working in a 'customer interfacing' role. I took a bus on Saturday and needed to ask the driver directions. Thankfully he did not respond in Polish.
Did you know that a significant proportion of the homeless are Polish? These are people who came here to find work, but failed, in part due to not speaking English, and when their money ran out, they found themselves on the street. Not nice at all. Did you also know that there is a severe shortage of builders and other tradesmen in Poland? The EU are pouring in money to reconstruct Poland, but they can't get the workers. I would guess that there is also a shortage of prostitutes in Poland.
Something I cannot stand is people who shout 'racism' when these issues are discussed. It is plain dishonest. And it plays into the hands of nasty groups such as the BNP. (Ever wondered why they are picking up record numbers of council seats? Could it be because they are the only ones who talk about these issues, albeit in their own rather vile manner.)
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Reminds me of the story of the backwoods Tory peer who thought it expedient to show a democratic side after the Labour landslide of 1945. Petrol was meanly rationed and Rolls-Royces only usable from time to time.
He got into the first bus that arrived, held out a sheet-sized fiver to the conductor and boomed genially: 'House of Lords, please.'
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Exactly Leif. Nothing to add, just wanted to give you some support.
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>>> I would guess that there is also a shortage of prostitutes in Poland.
Yes, there is... Plenty of Russians, though.
- - - - - - -
Free enterprise is the basis of western economy.
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"I would guess that there is also a shortage of prostitutes in Poland."
I've not had any problems.
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Exactly Leif. Nothing to add, just wanted to give you some support.
same here.........it's like the current 4x4/climate debate........those on the supposed moral high ground, as part of their defence/arguement will shout 'racism' or 'energy waster' just because you dare to try to voice another angle ....... complete lack of freedom of speech, curbed by do-gooders or the plain cynical who wish to peddle their view at all costs
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I think that there are worrying commernts made in the UK sometimes.
It seems that people here are very quick to blame "foreigners" for stuff. Be that job losses, dodgy economy, whatever. I think we're also very quick to criticise foreigners without being stood on particularly firm ground ourselves. I've spent most of my working life abroad, and whatever languages I speak now, I assure you that I arrived in most countries without knowing a word - I've pretty much always driven everywhere though, and usually long before I've learned the local highway code or language.
Many of you will have driven abroad - France (speak french?) on holiday (speak greek ?) on business (speak american?) so lets not be too quick to condemn.
I can't say that I think that having a bus driver who doesn't speak english is a good idea although lets not get too excited about it. But some of the comments seem to come from a "damn the foreigner" aspect rather more than simply discussing whether or not its a good idea. - would you be comfortable with a bus driver who was a white anglo-saxon, english speaking, protestant, but unfortunately deaf ?
Some people do hide behind accusations of racism, but then some others are rather too quick to deny it.
Now that's aside from where the government has its head - as someone above said it is wrong that a "new" Pole can come in where a UK born and bred asian can't bring his grandmother.
I need to look up xenophobia and racism - isn't one based on irrrational judgement and the other on fear ? In which case I would say that there is xenophobia in the UK and in here.
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No FM2R, you have expressed my feelings perfectly. Thanks for saving everyone my hysterical ranting by expressing calmly and coolly your thoughts!
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I need to look up xenophobia and racism - isn't one based on irrrational judgement and the other on fear ? In which case I would say that there is xenophobia in the UK and in here.
You don't say NoFM2R? And racism too to be quite honest, but just from a minority. The British on the whole aren't too bad in this area. Most of them aren't really nasty.
What they do have in spades is a sense of cultural and political superiority, the reasons for which alas look thinner every day.
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No FM2R,
good post.........but it doesn't cover the middle ground. I don't really have an opinion on the Polish bus driver discussion...but some do. It doesn't necessarily mean they're xenophobic or racist if they disapprove although I agree they could be and some undoubtably are.
Personally, i get quite vexed when my viewpoint is trodden on by someone who virtually automatically assumes i'm anti........when often i'm not.........but i quite like a balanced view and will sometimes do the old devil's advocate to achieve it.
I think disussions such as this are healthy, to air views and to consider others viewpoints, but occasionally someone comes along and labels another with something as a means of putting them down and to stifle that element of debate......racism is a topical one nowadays.....very easy to throw that label and very hard for the recipient to argue against, so the best option is to keep quiet when you're in that position or potential position....not healthy though... and not just.
not directed at you in the slightest
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I need to look up xenophobia and racism - isn't one based on irrrational judgement and the other on fear ? In which case I would say that there is xenophobia in the UK and in here.
If you want racism, try Quebec, in Canada. I am not Jewish, but I came across anti-semitism for the first time in Montreal e.g. "Jews live off the backs of others" expressed by a large group of people. We in the UK are fairly tolerant despite what some might think. And the BNP is atypical and has far less support than Le Pen and the Front National in France.
But I can understand people being worried. It is okay for middle class people who get access to cheap plumbers and their house prices go up nicely thank you. But what about the poor classes whose wages go down, and who cannot afford a house, due to increased competition. Or software engineers who cannot get a job because Indians are coming in and doing the work (guess my trade!).
Anyway, I digress from motoring. Hohum.
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Mark (NoFM2R) wrote. on business (speak american?)
On another list I've just done a double take over pants clips (those little
gadgets that keep your pants' cuffs out of the moving parts)
Then realised the author meant bicycle clips
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