Whilst out today, the warning lights came on in our 405TD. We pulled over to check out the situation and found a pool of oil under the car. Something had destroyed out sump (hole the size of a 50p piece). Power was still up for a very short while so I don't think it had taken a conrod out. I was only a short way from home so we tried to limp it, but it didn't want to know. We only manged to travel about 100 metres or so.
There was a slight knocking at this point - but only the same as when the car has no oil.
It still turns over freely, indicating that it has not siezed.
1 - Have we got away lightly with this? Is it as 'simple' as replacing the sump? (1.3 hours according to Autodata)
2 - I have a 'spare' 205 1.8TD - what are the chances of the sump fitting?
Cheers for any help!
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"1 - Have we got away lightly with this? Is it as 'simple' as replacing the sump? (1.3 hours according to Autodata)"
Sorry Probably "NO"
Driving with no oil pressure will damage the crank along with the big and main bearings very quickly. Bores/Pistons/Small ends probably OK engine should "grind" to a halt before these are damaged. You could try replacing the sump and filling with oil, still may be just OK. Dont be fooled into thinking every thing is fine when OK on cold oil, when it gets hot it could start knocking/rattling.
Worse case - partial rebuuild. Engine out, strip, clean, regrind crank + new shells and obviously new sump or a replacement scrap engine (replace cam belt with either scenario) or buy another car!
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"There was a slight knocking at this point - but only the same as when the car has no oil. "
Since you have made the statement above it appears that you make a habit of running it without oil!
We will all be surprised if you have got away with it. Let us know what happens.
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pmh (was peter)
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Try replacing the sump, filling with oil and running the engine til its warm and see what happens. Hopefully you've got away with it but if it runs rough when warm it's likely there is lasting damage. Not sure whether the sump from the 205 1.8TD will fit the 1.9TD, I think the sump capacity differs between the two. If so, best bet is to search the local breakers yards for one from a knackered 1.9TD.
Martin
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There was a slight knocking at this point - but only the same as when the car has no oil.
That's alright then, just keep running it and wait for the engine to become accustomed to it. ;o)
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are the edges of the hole bent out or bent in,if its been something going in you might be ok but if it has been something trying to escape you have no chance.
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oil is not well in the engine moi thinks
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There's so many of these old XUD lumps lying in scrapyards. By all means, spend £25 on a sump and some oil, but if it doesn't run spot-on, find an engine in a scrapyard that does. I know Pugs don't generally rust, but Rover 200s used those engines, and they did rust! ;-)
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UPDATE
Sump was an absolute nightmare (swearing removed - DD} to remove due to the AC compressor and I couldn't do it. I called a garrage and they suggested to use Chemical Metal, instead of them welding it. That at least held the oil and wasn't bad for an 8.99 fix from Halfords.
Car started fine, no problem. Then came a whinning noise - but not from the engine. Seems that the lack of oil took the turbo with it! Turbo still works but is now very noisy - almost like a hoover or a drill. All the pipes are in place but the thick black smoke it shoots would compete with a tractor! It was slightly lacking in power but regained it slightly and the noise quietened down slightly. But it's still there.
Is it a hard job to replace the turbo unit? Haynes quotes it as a 3 spanner job........
Any recomendations as to which turbo to fit for a bit of a performance upgrade? I know that most turbo's attached to the XUD 1.9 will work but were any tuned for a bit more umph? I've already mollested the pump pressure and fuel compensation wotsit!
Not to bothered about performance (got my 205TD for that) but....would be nice........would be nicer to have a car where the turbines aren't about to shatter into a bizillion pieces and write the engine off!
Cheers!
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It was smashed inwards
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Was looking through another post from someone with a VW TDi that made a quacking noise. Ours also does that sometimes when accelerating and it didn't before. However, to my knowledge they never fitted EGR to L reg 405 TD's.......
Correct me if I'm wrong.......
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Before you invest in a another turbo make sure you run the car until properly warmed through (take it for a reasonable run) to make sure there are no knocks or rumbles from the engine under load.
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It would be my guess that you will definately need some 'surgery' to the bottom end of the engine. But going on what you describe, and assuming you havent been driving the car since, you should be okay with a new set of big-end and main bearing shells. The crank should be okay as it takes a lot to require a crank re-grind, ie probably a siezed or semi-siezed condition. Usually in these cases, the crank can be 'cleaned' with fine emery and new shells fitted to bed in nicely again.
As you have to remove the sump anyway this isn't too much of a chore.
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Car seems to be running fine, it's just that the turbo now sounds like a hoover! We've nicknamed it the Peugeot Dyson.
There are no knocks under load so I've been really lucky. When I tried to move it with no oil in, the engine protection cut in pretty much straight away and stopped the engine.
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Shouldnt trust Chemical Metal (good though it is) to hold oil in a sump long term and when it fails it could damage the engine and worse, take a following motorcyclist with it. Furthermore the sump will have bits of metal in it plus possible bits of whatever hit it, rock or concrete, so change the sump at the earliest opportunity!
I had a V6 Vectra from new, smashed the sump on a rock on the M4 at 13000 miles, switched straight off, sump was changed, it was still going strong at 86,000 miles when I last saw it though as I say I switched off within seconds of the impact, attemting to limp home could have done long term damage.
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Why not upgrade it to be a Peugeot "Henry"!
You've been very lucky, surprised the turbo went first, maybee the oil pressure had dropped well before the warning lights came on thus running the turbo for quite a while without an adequate oil feed.(Its usually on the end of a long pipe - furthest away from the oil pump)
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I had to think what a Peugeot Henry was then.......sad thing is I used to use Henry's a lot at work as I used to be a cleaner at an RAF base!
It pushes out HUGE plumes of black at start and stinks like a bar-b-que...... I'm wondering if it hasn't so much killed the turbo as damaged a seal or two? Whatever the case, I'm fitting another turbo to it tomorrow. Doesn't seem to be a difficult job just a tight squeeze behind the manifolds, even with the mout removed and engine tilted forwards.
As for the chemical metal - there is a slight drip but nothing major. I filled it when I 'repaired' the sump and the level has hardly decreased - even with the plumes of smog!
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>>As for the chemical metal - there is a slight drip but nothing major>
It could fail at any time!
You shouldn't be on the road if there is a significant chance that the engine might dump it's sump oil through a bodged repair. Change the sump!
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I'd change the sump if only the AC compressor would come away from it
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