Those wire barriers killed a motocyclist around here but.
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Adam
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Ignore the but. I was going to say something else but decided against it.
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Adam
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Where (and when) was that, then ? - I don't remember it
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That woman on the Rainford Bypass. She crashed into them and I'm told it wasn't very nice.
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Adam
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Unfortunately airbags help save lives of both conscientious drivers and those who cause crashes through being on the phone/eating/doing makeup/reading/shaving/sorting out kids/smoking whilst driving, whereas ESC will only help prevent over-eager drivers from paying for their mistakes.
I suspect that in most handling-related crashes, by the time both parties are aware that evasive action needs to be taken, it's already too late, ESC or no ESC.
Therefore i'd be surprised if ESC is twice as effective at saving lives than airbags in the real world.
On a test track, creating hazards for test subjects to deal with, than perhaps ESC is better, as your test subjects will be alert, and so would be able to take advantage of the technology.
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I should say that most of the results are statistics, being based on real accident and death rates involving different vehicles. Obviously you would need to see the full data to really understand it, but they have made substantial reductions to road deaths.
The point about esc is that it works when you are not expecting things to go wrong.
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ESP would be best of all but no-ne has found a way to install it.
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Frostbite :) There's a readily available cut down version of 'ESP' available free to all though - it's called CS....
.... Common Sense.
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I should say that most of the results are statistics, being based on real accident and death rates involving different vehicles. Obviously you would need to see the full data to really understand it, but they have made substantial reductions to road deaths. The point about esc is that it works when you are not expecting things to go wrong.
Still not buying it. I'm yet to see a car with ESC but no airbags. In crashes involoving cars with these, what decides which system saved their lives? Or for that matter, whether the crash would have been fatal anyway?
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Is ESC what they fitted to the Merc A class to get it through the moose/Elk test?
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Bazzabear - I think the point is that the cars fitted with ESC never crashed in the first place and that is why the lives were saved. Of course it is very difficult to prove such a thing.
Having seen it in operation though I would be suprised if it hasn't prevented an awful lot of fatalities when people's attempts at cornering have gone a little bit pear shaped.
Blue
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I see your point, and I too am sure that it saves lives, I just think that them attempting to quantify it is ridiculous. (And in this case they are claiming to have successfully done so)
Back to the questions again: how do you decide whether the crash would have happened without the ESC, and how do you decide how bad a crash it would have been?
In Sweden, is everyone who nearly skids but their ESC kicks in and saves them required to send in form 123A in triplicate describing the situation?
Obviously it hardly matters in this situation, the fact that it, in all probability, saves lifes is enough. But it shows a 'slap-dash' attitude to statistics and what is provable, and what is not. It's exactly this governmental attitude which has led to our countries 'speed kills and nothing else matters' policy.
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My VW has an ESP system.
Not won the lottery yet so I think it is broken.
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I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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My VW has an ESP system. Not won the lottery yet so I think it is broken.
Somebody will be along in the minute to proclaim that their modereately mileaged mondeo hasn't got esp but that if it did it would have picked the winning numbers on 6 consecutive rollovers and won the nobel peace prize into the bargain.
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The wire restraint system is fairly common here nowdays, IIRC the first place I saw it was on the A316 just after the end of the M3, yes it is dangerous in the event of an accident involving a motorcycle.
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M23 has them in places. A van went over one in the last two years. The barrier helped flip the van as I understand it.
Re the stats on ESP or stability control. The stats were (again as I understand it) based on the percentage of cars on the road with ESP and with out and the cars without ESP were involved in proportionately more accidents of which a number were fatal.
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I bet all the cars with ESP also had ABS, TC, crumple zones and airbags though.
Under identical driving situations i'm much more likely to 1.Crash on a motorway
2.Die from the crash
...in my 10yr old Escort than in my Dad's 2yr old Mondeo (not with ESP or TC but with all the other features)
Statistics like this simply increase my scepticism over other statistics.
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Statistics like th above are misleading.
ESP is an additional expense for many cars so one "could" assume the buyer was more safety conscious and therefore more likely to drive more carefully and hence have fewer accidents...
madf
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