i've decided to get either a 306 hdi or a focus 1.8 zetec.(i don't want to get an elderly 306 turbo and i don't think much of the ford diesel.)
i've only got 4k to spend - the 306s i've seen are all 80-100k miles with some good examples of focuses at 60-70k.
i need it to last 3 years (15k ish p.a.)
which is the better buy?
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Now I won't lie to you, I am biased as I drive a Focus but a few things spring to mind here.
A lot of people on here, (well - NW) thinks that the 306 is a great drivers car. Now I thought it was ...."ok" but not amazing. However, the Focus handles, drives, and in my opinion looks a lot better.
I'd rather have a Focus with 60k on than a 306 with 100k but given one's a diesel, you have to ask yourself if you want a petrol more. I'd say you've got more chance reliability wise with a Focus - not least because of the lower mileage you will have on it.
Have you driven both? WHat did you think. I found the 306 a bit boring but I'll admit it wasn't a HDi.
In other words, get the Focus!
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Adam
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i had a focus as a hire car for a week and thoroughly enjoyed it - loved the gear change and handling. blasting along 'a' roads in scotland was great fun.
have also driven a 306(turbo diesel) and found it had slightly more poise on a poor surface but have noticed that the 306 is beginning to enter the chav zone..
to be honest with you i've never had a ford and am wary of them - not that it bothers me driving a car that x million other people have but rather that i feel they don't age well in terms of engine build.... perhaps the focus is different.
i know several people with the citroen/peugeot hdi with v high mileages so would be encouraged to hear of a focus with 150k + still running well..
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I've heard of Focuses with 120k on but I've never followed the 306 so I couldn't tell you about them.
www.ffoc.co.uk
That has, as you may guess, everything about the Focus if you want to learn more.
I will agree with you that the Focus has quite a firm ride but I wouldn't trade that (and ultimately it's handling) for a softer ride.
Maybe someone who's driven a 306 more long term could give you a more balanced argument.
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Adam
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You'll only get a useful unbiased opinion from someone who has owned/driven both cars. I have had three 306 diesels - 95M, 97P and now 99T HDI - all good cars which have done 50+ mpg, used no oil and never let me down. But I have always shied away from Fords (perhaps to do with living near Liverpool) though I am prepared to believe the Focus is just as good. You'll have to try both.
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I'll agree with that.
Whereabouts do you live if you don't mind me asking Andrew?
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Adam
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Aside from anything else the 306 is dated while the Focus is contemporary. For the money an Astra would be good value, nice crisp 1.6 and 1.8 engines.
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Just parted company with a Focus Zetec 1.4!!! after 3 and a half years and nearly 100k miles, definitely recommend this car (but with a bigger engine), virtually no problems and the best fun drive I have had apart from me dads TVR.
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Drink Lager, Talk Piffle !
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Well, if this isn't battle of the handling titans...
A fair amount of people in this forum will be biased, because they like good handling cars and these two are still among the best in class.
The problem with comparing them, is that they are fundamentally different, and of course, all of this is subjective. You'd really need to drive them both to see which suits your personal driving style better. The 306 will steer sharper, and is ultimately more fun. Problem is it's also a bit more risky, as it is prone to oversteer (I thank God that when I lifted off in a corner and ended up facing completely the other way there was no oncoming traffic). It also tends to roll a little more.
The Focus, however, is a safer proposition, better balanced, and actually more capable. But it does lack that last sparkle that makes the 306 so much fun. The Focus has the better interior (for build, comfort and practicality), looks fresher (though less elegant), and as you say, isn't the transport of choice for chavs, even though they are ten-a-penny (though you could argue the 306 is far from rare).
The 306, will probably have more equipment (safety equipment included) as the HDi was 99-01, and these were the run-out editions filled with equipment, something the average Focus lacked in most respects. It may also hold it's value better, being a modern diesel, and having taken the hit from its replacement (the new Focus has barely been out yet, so the values may still be falling).
Reliability probably won't be an issue on either - the Focus has largely reversed Ford's patchy record - and last 306's had all the revisions Pug learnt from the earlier editions. Personally, I'd look at both and then judge the best of each on condition.
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>>I thank God that when I lifted off in a corner and ended up facing completely the other way there was no oncoming traffic
That happened on a public road and -- if I understand you correctly -- you're blaming the car?
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I personally love pugs and their lift off over-steer!
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I'm not blaming the car entirely. I'm simply saying the 306 is more prone to it, than say an Escort, or indeed, a Focus.
For the record, I had to lift-off. A tractor was around the corner. I chose the near-death experience, to the actual death experience.
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It would add a certain piquancy to a driving test emergency stop . . .
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Have recently got rid of my 306 (how do I change my username on here?) It was the most unreliable car I ever owned. One thing after another. Driving home after having had the rear axle rebushed the radiator started to leak, 3 rads in 9 years.
Please don't buy one. They are nice to drive when they work (not very often) but a focus is nicer and far more reliable. I learnt the hard way.
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(how do I change my username on here?)
If you're being serious, then click on the "My Settings" link where you log in/out (top RH side of page). It should be self explanatory from there.
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Richy306 - Just because you had a bad experience with yours does not mean they are fundamentally unreliable cars. There are plenty of people on this forum who rate theirs very highly (including me).
While yours was a dog, the vast majority (like most cars) are generally reliable.
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Dave, thanks for the name change info.
P2501, I don't know anyone personally that has a 306. I can only go by my own experience. I bought from a dealer and it came with £1000s worth of service history. Like I said the car drove nicely, nice steering, good brake feel, very predictable. I suppose my main problem is with the 1905cc XUD TD engine. Mine blew a head gasket, my Xantia before with the same engine blew a head gasket, a friend with a 405 has blown twice in 4 years, my girlfriends dad's 406 has also recently blown. Problem is when the coolant isn't changed every 2 years and starts to corrode. I have never seen a 306 on more than 160000 miles.
Although it was a nice punchy engine it was'nt that good on fuel. Would average 40mpg driven gently, got it down to 18mpg once.
Admitadly I've only ever driven 2 focus and they where fairly new hire cars, but I was very impressed. IMO they are nicer to drive and would appear more reliable.
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Sounds like you (and your friends) have all had bad experiences with that particular engine. I can only agree with what you say about changing the coolant every two years - if its not done things rot and the engine suffers.
But as this is part of the service schedule then if it is not done (as is so often the case) then the car/engine simply cannot be blamed.
The xud engine,if serviced correctly is a tough old lump and i know of plenty that have covered 200k+ and others more,(in 306s) with only routine servicing.Clean oil and water absolutely essential.
I wont ask how you managed to get 18mpg from yours!!
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Iv'e had a ZX TD with the old XUTD lump and a Pug 306 with the 90 HDi. They have both returned about 40 to 50 mpg no matter how cruel you tried to be. They need treating the same. As long as fresh oil and water were swapped as per HJ's teachings, and the cambelts done just before they were due - No problems. Last for 200k miles.
Personally I prefer the way the 306 handles itself around corners, and like the relaxed diesel cruising.
The focus 1.8 petrol engine on my SIL's CMax seems to be very thirsty if you are only doing short journeys.
Comes down to three questions;
Which floats your boat on the test drive?
What type of journeys are you going to do in it?
How long do you intend to run it for?
Simon
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I wont ask how you managed to get 18mpg from yours!!
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I quite agree about the 18 mpg, it sounds unbelievable to me. We have never had less than 40 mpg from our Xantia, over a period of nearly 11 years, no matter how it has been driven. Much heavier car than a 306 too.
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I changed the oil and filter myself every 5000 miles (sometimes every 2 months) cause I wanted to look after the car. Reverse flushed the cooling system as per haynes manual too. It was the most expensive car I ever bought and the most troublesome. My Xantia had £6000 of SH with it and an old bloke previous owner so that was hardly neglected.
21 year old driver + french motorway + cheap french diesel = 18 mpg (average over 80 miles at indicated 110 mph)
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"average over 80 miles at indicated 110 mph"
Hardly a distance over which to judge mpg. Mind you I was in a traffic jam the other day for 5 minutes and averaged 0 mpg in my HDi. Can anyone beat that?
18 mpg is about half what I get from the Xantia ------with a caravan on the back!
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Yeah Phill, I would average 40 mpg in my 306 and Xantia everyday too. For reference I brimmed it, blasted up the road and brimmed it up again. In the meantime, over 80 miles it used some 20 litres of diesel (by my calculations 18 mpg) I don't know a more accurate way of mesuring fuel consumption.
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I still find 18 mpg to be astonishing. I have driven the Xantia at a sustained 90 mph for some distance, on occasions, and never got down below 40 mpg overall.
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Thats what i get too Machika. Makes me think something was wrong with richys engine - apart from all the other problems i mean.
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All car's economy plummet when driven hard, especially forced induction. On the other end of the scale, I managed 60 mpg on a long very gently motorway cruise, keeping to 60mph all the way and accelerating gently (well I was in plenty on time to get to Stansted airport for a 0630 hrs flight)
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