Good point, but again - if the oncoming drivers are going to need to move out, I will have observed that fact, and will take the necessary measures, whether that be to indicate, or to not move out at all.
As I said, every situation is different, and I act according to those circumstances.
And yes, I have been caught in the past, in a situation where I have chosen to wait, and have not indicated, by a fool from behind overtaking me.
This has happened 3 times that I remember, and without fail, each time has involved me moving out towards the white line, the car angled to obviously cross it but stopped. The person behind has then somehow interpreted this as me parking at the side of the road, and overtaken me into a gap which isn't there, forcing someone to reverse in order to clear the blockage they just caused.
For anyone who is capable of being that utterly dumb, I'm not sure the indicator would help them! ;)
Seriously though, in that situation I do see the value of an indicator, so, in fact, the time I'm most likely to use it is when I've chosen NOT to perform the manoevre - if there's a car behind.
In fact (and I'm rambling here a bit, sorry) looked at from a different POV, this makes more sense.
If you're going to cross the white line, it should be safe to do so. If it isn't, then the indicator shouldn't make any difference - use of the indicator alone can't make a manoevre safe, since it relies on other peoples observation of it, something you can't be sure of. If it is safe, then what difference does the indicator make?
On the other hand, if you choose to not perform the manoevre, but wait - THEN it becomes sensible to indicate, so road users know what you plan to do in the near future.
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A lot of sense there, BB. And, as you say, every situation is individual so the scope for generalisation is small.
If you're going to cross the white line, it should be safe to do so. If it isn't, then the indicator shouldn't make any difference - use of the indicator alone can't make a manoevre safe, since it relies on other peoples observation of it, something you can't be sure of. If it is safe, then what difference does the indicator make?
I remember pondering that for some time. If we only make the maneuvre when safe to do so, surely we don't need to warn anyone because they will not be affected?
Ah, but there is one extra person that we do need to warn - the bloke we didn't notice!
(don't ask me how I realised that...!)
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There are many occasions when indicating a manoeuvre is equally as important to pedestrians as to other road users.
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Ah, but there is one extra person that we do need to warn - the bloke we didn't notice!
Ah. Another good point - he's a swine that one.
Overall, my stance remains the same - I will judge according to circumstance whether to indicate.
What I think differentiates this situation from others, and possibly makes 'not indicating' a valid decision, is the risk of a signal being misinterpreted.
When considering the original question, the first place that came to my mind was a quite wide road in Congleton. There is a point on it that invariably has parked cars on my side of the road, a side road directly opposite them, and another (heavily used) side road - this time on my side, a few yards further on. I never indicate at this point as I approach, as it would almost definitely only result in requiring an emergency stop when someone then pulled out in front of me. Also, the road is wide enough that, unless the oncoming motorist is particularly oblivious, there is plenty of room for two lanes of traffic anyway.
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I take BB's point in the particular circumstances he illustrates.
In general though I try to indicate right when I need to pull out to pass a cyclist or pedestrian, and it is better to do so as early as possible.
Another point is that one should indicate intention to pull out, but having pulled out, cancel the indicator. Once you are out,there is no need to go on indicating, and indeed it can be confusing as BB points out.
If someone is tailgating you and you can see a cyclist looming up ahead, the important thing is to stake your right to a bit of road well in advance, to forstall him trying to overtake, and maybe make him pull back a bit.
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I'm a bit hazy on this, but didn't Stirling Moss fail his scooter for unnecessary signalling? Certainly I remember my driving instructor teaching me -- a long time ago, true -- that a signal indicated an intention do the unexpected. You did not signal for a manouvre that would be blindingly obvious, such as pulling out to pass a parked vehicle (as he used to put it 'are you expected to jump over it?').
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Sorry -- that should have read "scooter test" of course. Oh, for an edit button.
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"Another point is that one should indicate intention to pull out, but having pulled out, cancel the indicator. Once you are out,there is no need to go on indicating, and indeed it can be confusing as BB points out"
Driving in Spain I noticed that they keep the indicator on until finished overtaking.
I thought this was actually a good idea.
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There is an edit button but it comes under the term Preview...:-)
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I think it was the opposite - he was failed for not indicating even though he could see there was nobody around to indicate to. I remember watching him interviewed some years back where he told the story, & I think he finished off by saying it was alright, he did it the next time and passed, with a smile on his face that said while the jobsworth might have gotten a kick out of failing him, he was still Stirling Moss!
--
andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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In general though I try to indicate right when I need to pull out to pass a cyclist or pedestrian, and it is better to do so as early as possible.
For either of those I would strongly agree to indicate, since in either case there's a strong possibility that they would be hidden by your car for anyone following you.
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Perfectly reasonable not to indicate in the circumstance you describe, BB.
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Particuarly if it could be taken for a right-turn signal.
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It was a very long time ago so might not be valid now, but I was taught that you should always signal if to do so would be of benefit to another road user.
In the case of a cyclist or parked vehicle I signal, but cancel it once I've moved out. It isn't so much for the benefit of the car behind me, but for the cars behind him. It warns the following traffic that there's an obstacle ahead. It may also warn oncoming traffic that opposing vehicles are passing the obstruction and that they should be cautious.
(Not oncoming that is so close as to make a pass dangerous, but that which is further away, but in view, so would be warned by seeing my signal.)
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