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I've got a feeling that several years ago, Daewoo were marketed in New Zealand as a Pontiac LeMans, under the same branding exercise. Can't remember that it was very successful. Cars were hideous, and were generally bought by Mr Flat Cap. Yes, we've got them here too, but they generally get about in other styles of headgear (not including baseball caps).
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"Took my Daewoo to the levee.."
No, it's not going to work, is it....
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'far eastern technical knowhow' - they are the worst thing to come form the far east.
ask anyone who has owned a nexia, lanos, nubira, exspero
teriblre cars.
is the new nubira any good - im becoming slowly interested in one?
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'far eastern technicl knowhow'
With the honourable exceptions of Honda's engines and the Toyota Prius, 'far eastern technical copying' more like.
However, their ultra conservative engineering approach does make for some very reliable cars - when my old faithful Escort eventually fails to make it through an MOT, a three/four year old Micra will probably be my next choice.
number_cruncher
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Chevrolet Matiz. Hmmm....
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Let's try another version:
/with Alan Partridge manner/
"I drive CHEVY Kalos Xtra Cool"
Hmmm...
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" 'far eastern technicl knowhow'
With the honourable exceptions of Honda's engines and the Toyota Prius, 'far eastern technical copying' more like."
And, with one sentence, the single most successful car producing nation ever is swept to one side.
Depends whether "technical know how" includes the technical know how to make reliable cars at a price point that customers liked, which was something the old European and US manufacturers seemed to miss.
And that's just car manufacturers. The motorbike boys innovated far, far more than the bloated British bike companies managed in years. Want to go back to vertically split crankcases, anyone?
V
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>>'far eastern technical copying'>>
Do you live on the same planet as the rest of us?
50 years ago yes, but since then in every field from cars to hi-fi, cameras to electronics, the Japanese in particular have led the world in research and development and manufacture products that sell by the millions.
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Hi,
I do live on the same planet - honest!
I know there must be many, but what are the BIG steps, or inventions that are from the far East? Perhaps I'm suffering from a lack of imagination, but none spring to mind. If you ask where have ideas been best taken advantage of? Then, I'd say the Far East.
Where was the transistor invented?
computer?
silicon chip?
petrol engine?
diesel engine?
jet engine?
pneumatic tyre?
aeroplane?
helicopter?
submarine?
As we can't seem to gain any benefit from out inventivenes in Britain, I can't help but see a bleak future for employment prospects in engineering here, particularly w.r.t Browns Lane today :-(
number_cruncher
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As we can't seem to gain any benefit from out inventivenes in Britain, I can't help but see a bleak future for employment prospects in engineering here, particularly w.r.t Browns Lane today :-( number_cruncher
The future is here now!
I work in engineering in the UK and elsewhere (mainly Germany). The UK is a totally spent force in terms of engineering of consumer goods (including cars). Car production will be finished in the UK within 10 years (apart from the niche players like TVR and the very top end).
Engineers in the UK are very poorly paid - disgracefully so in many cases.
The insanity of letting lose 'market forces' in higher education has led to universities sacking science & engineering lecturers and researchers, and closing engineering courses because they 'cost too much'. So now all the kids go on to study nice low-cost 'Business' and 'graphic design' and graduate into the kind of job you could get with 5 O-levels 30 years ago.
There is a lack of investment in production facilities (which are often antiquated and inefficient). The inefficiency (UK industrial efficiency is put at 40% below Germany) means that production is only viable if staff are paid low wages - otherwise 'they price themselves out of the market'. Compound all of this will a clapped-out transportation infrastructure (would like to do 'Just In Time' via road or rail?) and we're stuffed I'm afraid.
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Hi Aprilia,
I agree with what you say. I have contributed to a number of engineering projects in other, non automotive industries in Britain, and, as yet, haven't seen much to be happy or confident about.
When we no longer make anything people want to buy, where will the UK's money come from? Does someone on the forum with more idea about economics have an answer for this?
The current government spin is that high tech, bespoke engineering and technology will save us - I am not too sure. It is only a matter of time before other countries catch up in these areas.
What you say about production facilities certainly rings true :-(
number_cruncher
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Car production will be finished in the UK within 10 years (apart from the niche players like TVR and the very top end).
What about the likes of Nissan's highly efficient plant in Sunderland? From what the newspapers say, the only problem there is that it is building in pounds and selling in euros.
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I'll try to answer these if someone else will mark my effort!
>>where was the transistor invented? - pass
computer? UK - Cambridge
silicon chip? - pass
petrol engine? - Germany
diesel engine? - Germany
jet engine? - Germany, pre Sir Frank Whittle
pneumatic tyre? - UK, Alfred Dunlop
aeroplane? - USA, Wright brothers
helicopter? - USA, Sikorsky, plus Italy, Leonardo da Vinci
submarine? - UK, Royal Navy
Cheers, SS
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Oh that old argument!
Computer? well depends on your qualification. Dollis hill then fitted into Bletchley during the war, or The Leo built for J Lyons again in the uk, or the states in 1949. All computer buffs argue over this one.
The transistor invented? - some say Bell labs, all agree its the states.
silicon chip? - same place as the tranny
petrol engine? - Germany
diesel engine? - Germany
jet engine? - Germany, By BMW - pre Sir Frank Whittle
pneumatic tyre? - UK, Alfred Dunlop
aeroplane? - USA, Wright brothers
helicopter? - USA, Sikorsky, plus Italy, Leonardo da Vinci
submarine? - do you mean submersible or submarine? they are different. The states for the submersible
(during the civil war) and the Germans for the submarine when U boats were fitted with schnorkels.
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Silicon chip?- depends what you mean by silicon chip, the first microprocessor was the Intel 4004, so the USA.
Transistor? - Developed by Bell in the USA
Didn't Leonardo da Vinci draw a submarine ?
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Transistor was invented in the States by Bardeen and Bratten in 1944. Almost sure it was at Bell. Basically they put a pulse of current into a piece of semi-conductor material via two connections and observed voltage/current appearing at a third one. And went on to show you could have a controlled current conduction in a semiconductor. Previously we used valves. (a valve has a vacuum apart from the electrons going across from cathode to anode which are controlled by an electric field). Transistor is controlled by current injection -- yes OK, you can apply volts to it but that injects current/charge.
The computer was a British invention during the wartime code breaking of the enigma machine.
Silicon chip was an evolution from the transistor, putting more than one transistor on a chip and building in the resistors. Not really much more than development.
Computer chip started out as a configurable chip to save having to make so many different logic chips.
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The Brits may have invented some wonderful stuff alright but seldom had the drive or the acumen to turn it to business advantage. So the Orientals filled the gap. Simple. They had enormous post-war recovery problems and used exports to fuel growth. Their secret weapon was jaw-droppingly simple. How to penetrate new markets and gain share? Take the innovations and develop them in workable sellable reality. That's why they got the reputation of copying things., It was less copying and much more putting right what the little men in white coats in their academic ivory towers didn't have the skills to do.
Quality control -- things that worked and didn't fall apart.
What killed the Brit m/c industry? (I was there) The breath-takingly simple idea of electric starters. Along with nice things like engines not leaking and bits that didn't fall off, even if the bikes did look a bit funny. The Honda Cub that never broke down and revolutionalised the m/c industry with a simple ad about meeting nice people on Hondas. And all this new fangled Honda stuff was built on a bowl of rice a day, sneered the detractors. I recall we had some of the early 250cc Dreams in stock and some of them developed a slightly rumbly timing side bearing. Honda recalled all the ones we had sold and shipped a full replacement engine in a crate for each, with a letter of apology to each owner. Try getting that from a dozy AMC manufacturer producing rickety rubbish that was back every few days for some problem or other, while your bike sat in the shop waiting for some pimple in Birmingham to send you the bits.
Technological quantum leaps are all very well. But they don't constitute progress per se. They only hint at the future. The real genius is turning them to marketable use. What does get results is painstaking incremental steps like attention to detail, getting things to work and work and work. Building what your customers want, instead of building what you want and then trying to flog it. Remember when the CB750 came out in 1969. A ground-breaking powerful 4 cylinder motorcycle, just what riders had been hankering for after their wheezy unreliable BSA's and Nortons. That is how the Japanese built their market, through customer loyalty. Now, surprise surprise, they are the innovators.
We should also be grateful to the Asians for the spin-off fillip their approach to quality control gave to other manufacturers, who were forced to lift their game to compete, although, judging by these fora, (Vauxall, Renault, Citroen et al) there are still miles to go before they sleep.
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