I agree with somebody.
Sure, time has moved on, but some American friends of ours visited the UK some years ago, and were horrified at "That child's toy" that the Avis lady lead them out to at LHR. "That child's toy" was a runout model gunmetal grey XR2i.
By the time they left the UK two weeks later, they didn't want to give it back, having been amazed that something so small could go and stop so well, and corner with alacrity. When I told them that the XR2i was hardly cutting edge technology, or for that matter even approaching average, they were amazed. It even was quieter at speed than their Caddy Tank, thanks to not having the aerodynamics of a brick or door seals that failed to seal, and got further than once round the block on a tank of fuel.
Back to the original post, I recall seeing an interior photo of the then Formula One driver Alan Jones's 3.3 911 Turbo that he imported for when he was in the US (reg 'AJ Turbo')... complete with daft 85MPH speedo.
|
As the first poster indicated, speedos in the US are no longer limited to 85 mph. But there is really no culture of speed and performance like there is in the UK.
On the freeways and tollways, most people drive around 65mph. There's no lane discipline - you have three lanes of traffic all doing roughly the same speed, like a rolling road block. Interestingly trucks here are not speed limited, and you will often find a colossal artic (or semi as they call them) keeping up with and frequently passing the rest of the traffic. This also has the benefit of not creating a bottleneck.
Around town the speed limits are 25-35-45, and the vast majority of people stick to them. They don't have speed cameras (although some places do have red-light cameras). The reason for compliance is simple - US roads are swarming with police. You have the State Police on the motorways; each town has its own local police; and for the areas in between there are the sheriff's deputies. And they believe in being very, very visible.
If you look at a police post on the M1 you may see one or two Omegas parked outside while their crews enjoy a Little Chef. Check out a State Police depot on one of the motorways here and you'll likely see fifty+ cars. The Illinois State Police was recently criticized for having more patrol vehicles than police officers.
|
Give me US highways any time over UK ones.
|
|
Or French, German, Spanish, etc...
|
These comments about American cars are interesting, but don't they have Audis, BMWs, Volkswagens, over there? Not to mention some of the Japanese cars, only some of which are made softer for the US market.
Okay, they used to get Renault, Peugeot, and Alfa, too... but the reliabilty problems did for them.
|
You are right about 'softened' Japanese cars. My wife bought a Lexus ES300 which is the US market version of the Toyota Camry. What a piece of junk! It's a 3.0 but feels slower than a 1988 1.6 Sierra, which until now I did not think could be beat for lousy performance and handling. I am certain it has been detuned to give something like 75HP. Words cannot describe just how truly lousy this car is. But that's for another thread.
You're also right about the complete absence of French cars. The British are brought up to excuse crap products, lousy service, and to generally 'make do'. Americans, on the other hand, simply will not tolerate being sold a car made out of plastic and bent wire which falls apart after six months. The class action lawyers would be all over it and Peugeot et al would be sued out of existence.
|
You are right about 'softened' Japanese cars. My wife bought a Lexus ES300 which is the US market version of the Toyota Camry. What a piece of junk! It's a 3.0 but feels slower than a 1988 1.6 Sierra, which until now I did not think could be beat for lousy performance and handling. I am certain it has been detuned to give something like 75HP. Words cannot describe just how truly lousy this car is.
Somebody,
If the Lexus ES300 is the US market equivalent of the Toyota Camry, what is the US version of the Toyota Camry(was best selling car in USA for years) equivalant to?
The ES300 now has a 3.3l 24v V6 putting out 225bhp and if you tell me what year your wife's car is I'll tell you the power output.
I don't know where you live in the USA, or what cars you drive, but I cannot agree with your observations on cars or driving speeds; and I spend several months each year in the USA driving a variety of rental and friends cars.
Even the Dodge Neon which is near the bottom end of the Rental car models has a 2.0l 132bhp engine which is adequate for 90mph cruising fully loaded, Aircon blasting etc. Cars are pretty much on a par with European/Japanese models. Although there isn't the demand for the hot hatchback, there are plenty of powerful cars with good roadholding.
Whilst I would agree that speed limits in Urban areas are generally observed, speeds on the interstates average 75-80 mph.
C
|
>>If the Lexus ES300 is the US market equivalent of the Toyota Camry, what is the US version of the Toyota Camry(was best selling car in USA for years) equivalant to?<<
I was somewhat clumsily attempting to point out they are the same car except the Lexus version has all the extras.
>>The ES300 now has a 3.3l 24v V6 putting out 225bhp and if you tell me what year your wife's car is I'll tell you the power output<<
No, the ES300 has a 3.0V6. The ES330 has a 3.3V6. Whatever the official power output of the 3.0 may be, the ES300 is a wallowing, gutless, cramped slug of a car.
>>I don't know where you live in the USA, or what cars you drive, but I cannot agree with your observations on cars or driving speeds; and I spend several months each year in the USA driving a variety of rental and friends cars<<
I live in the Midwest. I noticed on the West Coast the average speeds tend to be around 75 as you say. Here it's 65, due to the number of police about.
>>Even the Dodge Neon which is near the bottom end of the Rental car models has a 2.0l 132bhp engine which is adequate for 90mph cruising fully loaded, Aircon blasting etc<<
Wasn't the Dodge Neon developed with an eye on the European market? I seem to remember them being sold as Chryslers.
>>Although there isn't the demand for the hot hatchback, there are plenty of powerful cars with good roadholding<<
I suppose you're thinking about newer cars like the latest Pontiac Grand Prix or the gorgeous Dodge 300 Magnum. They certainly seem to be trying to move away from the wallowing tank type of car toward something more European.
|
|
|
|
Growler - you are right, although the top speed is slower on US highways than UK, due to the presence of law enforcement, your _average_ speed is much higher due to the fact that here they actually (gasp) BUILD NEW ROADS and even WIDEN EXISTING ONES!
Whereas in the UK the Government works against the interests of the majority car-owning tax paying citizens, here, it's the opposite.
- The road surfaces are poorer in quality (one of the reasons for low speed limits) BUT they are not being dug up 90% of the time. When roads are occasionally dug up the work is finished in double quick time. In the UK it takes about 1 year to widen 1 mile of road. Here I have seen 7 miles of road go from 6 to 8 lanes in 5 months.
- When someone breaks down in the UK their car is left blocking the road until such time as it occurs to someone to do something about it. Here the state Dept of Transport (DOT) has tow trucks permanently on patrol during rush hour
- When there's an accident the UK police close every adjacent road they can for as long as they can to maximise disruption and give themselves the opportunity to strut about feeling important in day-glo vests. Here the wreckage is swiftly moved and the parties' licenses are taken away on the spot until such time they can convince the court they are not complete dickheads.
Just for some balance, the direction signage can be confusing at times. And American drivers love nothing better than driving up alongside you but due to the cops all around and the low speed limits they will then back off, reluctant to overtake, and will happily sit in your blind spot for twenty miles. Always check that blind spot!!! Finally American drivers are not taught to anticipate. You will come over the brow of a hill and see a police car in the distance and discreetly slow down. Watch those around you disappear in the distance and then see all the brake lights come on when they are right on top of him!
|
"Finally American drivers are not taught to anticipate"
You want to try driving in Puerto Rico.....
|
|
|
|
Im not so sure about traffic moving at 60-65mph on US freeways. In AZ, on I-10 which runs to Los Angeles, the limit is 75. Even if you drive at 85-90, there is still a lot of traffic passing you.
|
This is another way of implying American cars are inferior to Euro ones, or Japanese sports bikes are better than Harleys. This is a totally fallacious comparison. The only valid comparison is between what the habits, aspirations and expectations of their respective adherents are, together withthe environment they are to be used in, not the machines themselves. The machines merely follow the especial requirements of their users in their individual markets. The automobile is not just a form of transport, it is also a clearly targeted marketing exercise.
Give me a big fat Lincoln, leather and the nearest oldies station and miles of endless unobstructed Interstate highway. Give me a Harley 45º V-twin and I feel like the world is my oyster on the Florida Turnpike. I could go on for ever, the car or the bike feel they will go on for ever, and I don't need to travel at 90 mph to do it. You can go a hell of a lot further on a 65 mph highway unobstructed than on a 70 mph one where everyone is dead set on doing 80 and the hell with the rest with roadworks all set up so if you manage 40 mph average you're doing OK (source: recent trip in July). Not to mention your BP (in my case anyway, benefits considerably).
I can stop when I feel like it: Denny's, Bennigan's, had enough for the day? well where's the next Number 6 motel? The driving environment is generally benign -- even a casual study of American contemporary history will show how the nation developed around, and because of, the automobile --why do I need anything more than to enjoy the experience? UK is the reverse, the landscape and the culture has had to accommodate the automobile by force of necessity in a much smaller space -- small wonder the difference in driving attitudes and the reactive flailing around by authorities to cope with the phenomenon. ***
Contrast that with coming out of LHR Term 3 and hitting the M25, doesn't matter if the speedo goes up to 200 mph, it's pointless anyway.
*** I exclude from this Boston, MA on a Friday afternoon, Seattle WA most times, and NYC any time....... :+)
Now then I must go and look at the Mustang speedo and see what that says...
|
Sorry for the slight thread hijack, but I'm not sure whether I ever thanked Growler for his mention of the Number 6 Motels just before my honeymoon in the US. We used they 3 or 4 times, and they were always handily placed and clean, if not particularly luxurious.
The knowledge from here that they were a trustworthy chain saved many a worry.
|
|
Another thing to take into account when comparing US and Euro cars is the petrol. In the UK we use at least 95 RON fuel, whereas in America, their petrol starts at something like 89 RON? America, especially California, has stringent emmissions targets for their cars, which will therefore be in a different state of tune to European equivalents.
|
|
I think thread has sidetracked slightly..
|
|
The octane rating in the US is on a different scale i.e. it is measured differently to that in europe. It is not RON. In AZ they sell 87 octane, if that was ron, the car would pink itself to death in a matter of weeks.
|
|
more info on octane numbers. In europe the number quoted is RON, in USA it is (RON+MON)/2 where MON is motor octane number.
|
|
|
Growler, if you are referring to my posts, I did not mean to imply American cars are inferior to European or Japanese ones.
While it is true they do not generally offer the same performance that a Foreign car would given the same engine size, American cars are designed to cruise effortlessly and endlessly on open roads, and they do that very well. When you have 1,000 miles in front of you it would be tiring, stressful and pointless to attempt to maintain very high speeds.
Also as you say, when you eventually decide to stop and find someplace to eat, there is an embarrassment of choices. And I have never been anywhere where it wasn't clean, offering fresh, good hot food at reasonable prices, with polite and friendly staff. Contrast that to the UK!
|
Back to topic: my '69 Mustang speedo goes up to 120 mph. Of course that was pre-Jimmy Carter 55 limit days. Mind you it doesn't work! Still looking for a buyer....
So does the Harley's, but I've never done more than about 100 on that, don't see the point really. Prefer just loping along enjoying the scenery, with a great big engine barely working. Hate buzz-boxes.
As with bikes, I never was interested in top speed, it's gut-wrenching acceleration from a great big hairy motor I like.
|
A Stanley steam car did 127 mph in 1906 and set the world speed record. Speeds around 100 mph were commonplace in American steam-powered speedsters of the time.
I don't suppose they had speedometers at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
