Thanks for that DVD.
Had a similar call a few weeks ago regarding a credit card that I no longer use.
Thinking about it they did not ask for any of my details or security number, they just confirmed my name.
I have since closed the card down.
Hugo
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DVD. Thanks for your very full explanation of this scam and I understand what you say about not giving out security numbers PINs or whatever to anyone. It is not clear to me how, in the circumstances you describe, these people would get your telephone number to call you or the 16 digit (4 blocks of 4) number on the front of your credit card. There must be a lot more 'behind the scenes' work going on to set this up. Please can you expand on this for us?
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Mmmm, my statement this month contained £4,000 worth of internet purchases (not mine, have never used that card for internet purchases).
Four of the items on the same day were all for the same amount, about £871, you'd think the retailer would spot something odd about these transactions.
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Some while ago goods that were ordered by phone or on the Internet would only be delivered the registered address of the credit card. That restriction has now been dropped.
I have had my card used for goods of which I have had no knowledge. I challenged the transaction and, after several weeks, was sent an invoice for(believe it or not) dozens of pairs of size seven slippers ordered from the USA. The invoice gave neither a name or an address - just my card number. The credit card company claimed this was proof and implied that I had either forgotten about the transaction or friends/family had used my card. The credit card company refused to tell me to which address the goods were delivered and eventually the transaction was cancelled.
My daughter had her card used for hundreds of pounds of telephone calls to a sex line over a period of a couple of weeks. Usually in the early hours and obviously not from her phone.
I understand that in cases like this the Card Company stand the loss. What I fail to understand is why it is not policy for me to be informed where the goods were sent - as if it were friends/family I might recognise the address. Similarly daughter was not told the tel number(s) used for the calls.
Surely the onus must be on the firm supplying the 'goods' to give addresses(and phone Nos) and thus investigating the fraud would be simplified.
Or am I missing something?
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The number on the signature strip of your card contains your 16 digit card number and a few security digits at the end
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I would add one more caveat, and that is never use your debit card (i.e. Barclays Connect etc) over the internet. Never mind the BS about how their site is secure etc etc. The answer is no site is 100% secure.
I was taken for $14,000 worth of fraud direct from my bank account, all incurred in Taiwan, a country I visit often but have never used that particular card in. The debit card issuer and my bank were totally uncooperative in resolving the matter and more or less called me a liar until I got Gerry my attorney to set the dogs on them and publish my experiences in the media.
Since then I have never used my card on the net. At least with a charge card you have the opportunity to dispute your bill, with a debit card you are up the proverbial creek without the needful.
Cold hard cash -- the only way to go.
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Sorry AS. They didn't include any information from a wet towel, bull whip, nail removing session. That posted was all I got.
DVD
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To be honest I suspect that this is yet another hoax (police have been known to unwittingly assist in spreading hoaxes in the past!), but the underlying message is the important thing. Always verify that the person who has called you is who they claim to be.
When I call my bank they always ask me the same old questions, date of birth, school, place of birth etc, which IMHO is not secure at all given that every organisation asks those questions. but they do ask me for 2 characters from my 13 character password. Thing is, when they call me they don't go through that procedure, or at least they didn't until I insisted on it.
18 months ago, I helped a friend by calling her ex and pretending to be from the CSA. I had witnessed her receiving calls from the CSA and knew that they asked for DOB and address. So I asked him the same questions, and I guess that he thought I was genuine, given that he was very forthcoming for 10 minutes. Legal, probably not, but neither is lying to the CSA, which is what he was doing.
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As I understand, the 16 didget numbers are found by these con artists using some sort of search facility that can hit upon recognised numbers.
In my case the Credit card co called me and asked if I had spent £100 odd with an internet site. I had not. They spotted this as an uncharacteristic spending pattern.
They did not ask me any further questions and said that my account would be credited with this amount, which it now has.
In addition, they closed nown my card and issued me a new card with a new number
It would do everyone to check their Ts and Cs to see if they are liable for any losses. WRT this company I am not.
Hugo
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Just as a word of advice - please also do not let your cards out of your sight ever.
I had a card cloned - I believe it happened in a petrol station in UK and I had upwards of £4000 illegal transactions turned up mainly in Sri Lanka, they were repaid without problem after a couple of transactions were queried by the credit card company.
I believe the cc company were aware of the changed spending pattern and allowed it to run in order to try and catch the culprits red handed
They replaced the cards and I insist that I now accompany my card everywhere.
No one complains when I explain the reason.
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I don't think its a hoax. My Dad just got stung with 2.5k of HiFi equipment on his card after a similar call. My dad worked for one of the big four banks so is pretty clued up over such things, but even he fell for it.
Joe
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robzilla link says it is a hoaz, do NOT pass it on.
colin m link says it may or may not be a hoax.
for this scam, fraudster needs to be able to combine your card number with telephone number. take steps to stop that happening and in case that fails then take further common sense preventive measures as advised by others here.
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Here is another credit card fraud more to do cars,
Recently on a holiday in Hungary, I went to fill up the hire car with fuel just before getting to the airport.
I handed in my credit card to pay and was given the slip to sign. Finding it difficult to spot the amount, I asked the cashier to show me the amount. At which point she said " Oh I am sorry I used the wrong pump and overcharged you", whilst handing me several high value currency notes to make up the difference between the pump amount and what she had charged me.
Keep alert
greenmondeoman
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I guess it doesn't really matter if this particular warning is a hoax, it does point up the risk of divulging security detail to unidentified callers. Not half an hour ago I had a call from "Marks & Spencer", probably genuine, saying they were following up a mailing sent recently.
When I asked what it was about, I was asked to give my DOB to confirm identity. I said no, I know who I am but I don't know who you are! How do you get round that one?
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A couple of years ago there was a TV documentary on these scams. One victim was a Welsh sheep farmer who had a £5.00 withdrawal on his credit card which wasn?t genuine.
No problems with his bank who deducted it from his account.
However the BBC (I think it was ) incorporated it into their programme as it was interesting.
The £5.00 was a bill for him viewing a sex site on the web. The amusing part was that he didn?t have a computer.
The team set out to find where the money went to and traced it to a café in some South American country where the scam was ran from. A man came in once per week to collect to collect hundreds of these £5.00 debits. He had simply billed these numbers and the money was paid out to him.
The investigative team found out that no one including banks or Police agencies were interested in doing anything about it. The banks because they were such small amounts and the Police because they said the crime had been carried out in other countries.
This was perhaps before the security numbers on the backs of cards were used.
This thread is invaluable as it highlights and reinforces issues of security which most of us know but tend to forget over a period of time.
If anyone is interested in laundering money, I have many contacts in Africa who by the number of e-mails I receive appear to trust me implicitly in transferring millions of pounds to my account. How could they be so foolish to think I will give it back?
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Its not just the net. I had my amex card cloned after filling up with fuel at a "big four" garage in the uk, west london, *15* minutes after filling up and paying it was being used to make telephone calls to Nigeria. Credit card fraud is credit card fraud, in fact its harder to do when you buy things on the net.
Which you you rather do - give your card number to a merchant over a fairly secure net link or give your card to a waiter who wanders off with it out of your sight?
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Alvin,
"This was perhaps before the security numbers on the backs of cards were used."
See questions in my earlier post.
I must be thick, but I fail to see the purpose of these security numbers if the card is to be used for fraud on the internet or for a phone sale.
Once you have used your card legally for an internet or phone sale, someone knows your card number, expiry date and 3 digit security number. Similarly if the waiter/garage attendant glances at the back of your card he has that information. In these cases your card has been compromised. They now all know that VISA Card 1234 5678 9012 3456 in the name of A Alvin has an expiry date of 05/04 and the security number is xxx.
If they now wish to use that card number and information for fraudulent purposes on the internet, or to ring a sex line/Nigeria using those details to pay for the call, what is to stop them?
I recently used my card(registered to my UK address) for a phone sale from UK to a firm in the USA for goods to be delivered to an address in the USA. The man on the other end of the line simply took card details and the address where I wished the goods to be dispatched. He clearly had no idea who I was or where I was calling from.
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Cardew, Yes you are quite right when one thinks about it.. As you say what difference can security numbers make if someone has seen your card.
I suppose technology has to take a quantum leap forward before we are secure and it doesnt appear possible. We read about future retina scanning and fingerprints for cash machines, but none of this can be applicable for phone, internet, or manual use of our plastic. Or can it ???..
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Alvin,
I think you will covered for manual use of plastic with the next generation of cards(known as Chip and Pin) as you are required to enter a pin on a machine where the attendant doesn't see the keypad. The microchip helps prevents the card being counterfeited. Apparently these are widely in use in France and have cut fraud by over 80%.
In fact the Post Office already have these machines if you want to get cash using Alliance and Leicester cards - the old Girobank connection.
Did I get the details right for your card? I am a security officer honest!!
C
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Surely the point is that no system is security proof, not even 'chip & pin'. All the security code details do is add a further hoop for the fraudster to get through.
It reduces fraud in areas such as 'garbage sorting' where previously any on elooking through the garbage could get details by simply looking for discsrded card slips.
Now to order by phone or internet they would need to have seen the card. Not fail safe but it does make 'opportunity crime' harder.
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>>you are required to enter a pin on a machine where the attendant doesn't see the keypad
Yeah but everyone in the queue behind you can! Surely you'll just get echoes of the cash point scams where some bloke/woman would stand where they could see you enter your pin number and then mug you for your card 5 mins later before withdrawing all your hard earned cash!
(am I sounding paranoid?)
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Fill what's empty, empty what's full and scratch where it itches!
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