I use either foot to brake in an auto, seems pretty obvious to me that's why the brake pedal is wider in an auto, so it can be easily accessed by either foot.

Well i guess that depends on your point of view. To me, it seems obvious that the reason the brake pedal is narrower in a manual car is because there needs to be room for the clutch pedal.

I am 48 and been driving for just over 30 years now. Passed my test on a manual, but started having to drive auto's through my work at the age of 18. I have never had any issues switching between manual and auto, but i guess that may be because i started driving auto's at a fairly young age. But having said that, i persuaded an elderly (late 60's) female customer of mine to try going auto. As far as i know, she has had no issues changing from manual to auto, and she now finds driving much more enjoyable as a result. My mother in law also went auto late (mid 60's), just last year when she took the plunge and bought a Hyundai i10 auto. Again, as far as i know, she has had no issues changing from maual to auto and again, she now finds driving more enjoyable.

Left foot braking is something i have never considered because i have never come to a point in my life where i only ever drove auto. If that were to happen, i might try it to see how i got on. But while i am still driving manual more than 50% of the time, i don't think it would be wise to try and learn myself to left foot brake when driving the car!.

But that is just me, and we are all different!

Edited by badbusdriver on 11/01/2020 at 11:33

<< The people being discussed here are not only generally lower mileage drivers, but are in their dotage too, driving probably doesn't come naturally to them and that goes for thousands of drivers of all ages who we witness every day of the week, >>

I find that suggestion rather too dismissive. I am a recently qualified octogenarian, but I don't think I have reached the dotage stage yet. Driving has 'come naturally' for almost 60 years. The problem for some may be that driving conditions - and the vehicles - have changed radically since those basic habits were learnt, and we all know how hard it can be to teach old dogs ....

Another thing which has changed is makers' approach, from designing vehicles fit for purpose, to fashion articles out from which it has became so hard to see that multiple cameras are needed to fill the gap. I could go on ...

<< a prime example of what is now a large car with no room inside, with massive blind spots and typically useless door mirrors that appear to be primarily fashion accessories, >>

Actually I think today's (or at least last decade's) door mirrors are pretty good. I can just remember the days when cars began to get mirrors at the top of the offside wing, just over the headlamp. They were too far away to offer much of a view. Many cars had only a modest interior mirror.

With mirrors on both doors, closer to the driver's eye, reverse parking into marked spaces is fairly easy (tho probably a long way from that achieved by drivers of artics). To join our main street it is necessary to emerge from a slip-entry on the 'wrong side', often with a largish vehicle blocking the view of approaching traffic, while also trying to see traffic climbing the hill on the other side. By turning the nearside mirror outwards the latter problem can be largely alleviated.

I thought HJ advocates left foot braking at low speeds only, when parking ect..

"But that is just me, and we are all different!"

You are so right, BBD, and that has got to be the point. A prime example of that is the enduring popularity of manual transmissions, which isn't just down to the price difference, a small fraction of the total price of a car. SWMBO has never liked automatics, and personally I'm glad that we have one of each.

Because we're all different, we should be able to disagree about issues like LFB, as Alby says, without fuss. I can absolutely see the logic of LFB if, unlike me, you only drive automatics: but for me personally (and I mean personally) even with an auto it would take me longer to move my left foot from the footrest to the brake than it does my right foot from the accelerator. To get the benefit of LFB I'd need to drive with my left foot poised near the brake (as one well might in a parking manoeuvre)....but that's just me.

... but for me personally (and I mean personally) even with an auto it would take me longer to move my left foot from the footrest to the brake than it does my right foot from the accelerator. To get the benefit of LFB I'd need to drive with my left foot poised near the brake (as one well might in a parking manoeuvre)....but that's just me.

100% agree Avant, and the assertion that LFB "eliminates thinking distance" is clearly nonsense, not only because of the response being faster moving foot from accelerator to brake pedal, but because "thinking distance" is a measure of the distance travelled between observing an obstacle and making the decision to react by stamping on the brake, irrespective of which pedals are in use.

iirc, brake assist does away with thinking time, in that when your foot is removed from accelerator and hits the brake pedal, the time taken is measured by computer and the pressure on the foot pedal is amplified giving faster braking with more brake pressure applied

so it wont matter what foot it is!

Though have to admit I used LFB in a garage to park Autos but they never had Brake assist then....

I think that you don't fully understand the concept of thinking time . It is the period before actual braking input ( that time to perceive, recognise & react).

My point - but it seems that bolt isn't the only one who has an alternative concept of thinking time

I only mentioned what a computer would be doing and does, that thinking time could be the difference between life and death, which as far as braking goes, the computer reaction to what you dont do is faster and more effective, whether people like it or not it works and quicker than anyone can do

My recently acquired Fabia has forward looking 'radar' that will sound an alarm then brake to avoid what it's logic thinks is an imminent collision.

A week or two before Christmas cars in front of me slowed while my 'scan' was looking further up road. Not really an issue, a slight panic and firmer than usual braking and I'd have caught it and still stopped a car length short. The downside of keeping a scan and looking well ahead is that you might be slightly slower catching something close by.

The auto brake was on the case before me - full application up to ABS.

There's no way a collision was actually going to happen but obviously the logic doesn't know that. It's beeped at me on several other occasions, including on the test drive. TBH I don't like it but I'm equally wary of turning it off as the law of sodde says I'll then rear end somebody!!

Edited by Bromptonaut on 12/01/2020 at 09:39

if you try to brake fast ie its the ABS that does the work and moves the pads closer to the discs, without touching, so when you hit the pedal the pads are in contact with disc straight away and with most systems its impossible for you to hit another motor but not the other way round

This isn't how ABS works either ... 8-|

I only mentioned what a computer would be doing and does, that thinking time could be the difference between life and death, which as far as braking goes, the computer reaction to what you dont do is faster and more effective, whether people like it or not it works and quicker than anyone can do

I understand people dont like change, though, it isn't taking anything away from the driver just adding to the drivers ability

Brake assist will not eliminate thinking time (a full pre-collision system may be faster to react & initiate braking than you are if you are daydreaming etc.).

Brake assist should only kick in if the system reckons that you are not braking hard enough i.e. you have already reacted so thinking time is already in the past.

Must stick up for us oldies! The only pedal confusion accident I've been anywhere near (car through a shop window) was caused by a young man who was well under forty years old.

My current car has Brake Assist as part of it's Pre-Collision System (if I don't brake at all PCS should). Thankfully not been called upon yet. ;)

It works without you knowing it, as I said it times the reaction time between throttle off point and when the brake pedal is pressed, and you do know when it works because the brakes come on much heavier the faster you hit the brake pedal

so as for not been called upon yet, it has, but you've never noticed, called brake assist not anti collision though its part of the system

Bolt, you seem to have a lot of faith in AEBS, having covered about 200k miles with these systems in my two most recent lorries, can't say i've found them to be anything but a pita, as have departure warnings, and the same opinion goes for most of my more experienced colleagues too, on my present vehicle AEBS cannot be turned off at all by the driver, which will be interesting if we get heavy snow.

Thankfully i get on very well with the lads at the service agent (maker's dealer) and they have reset the system so its not quite as keen to cut power or apply the brakes as it was previously.

Please correct if wrong, but are you thinking of automatic braking which is connected to anti collision system

the anti collision system relies on forward and around cameras including lidar/radar that prevents collisions through the use of these devices

auto brake assist does not use these, the ecu measures the time it takes you to move your foot from the accelerator to touching the brake pedal, if this is timed as normal operation the brakes operate as standard

if the ECU detects faster time between the foot moving from acc pedal to brake, it gives harder braking instead of you pressing harder on the pedal

I think as you say I am confident in the way it works, but dont dwell on it while driving, if it works it works but I am prepared in case it doesn't as nothing is failsafe, I dont care what anyone says

I understand why people dont like it as well

No, that isn't how it works & my car would indicate to me if it had been called on

what had been called upon brake assist or anti collision?

How does it work as usually different makers give different names that mean the same thing?

Perhaps, just perhaps, I am a decent driver

I dont recall saying any different, and your not the only one, but were not perfect which is why these systems are there to assist

... but for me personally (and I mean personally) even with an auto it would take me longer to move my left foot from the footrest to the brake than it does my right foot from the accelerator. To get the benefit of LFB I'd need to drive with my left foot poised near the brake (as one well might in a parking manoeuvre)....but that's just me.

100% agree Avant, and the assertion that LFB "eliminates thinking distance" is clearly nonsense, not only because of the response being faster moving foot from accelerator to brake pedal, but because "thinking distance" is a measure of the distance travelled between observing an obstacle and making the decision to react by stamping on the brake, irrespective of which pedals are in use.

I presume that's why HJ (at least i believe he did) originally said LFB was only for slow speed manouvring, so your left foot hovered over the brake pedal. For me, doing that for all other driving would be terribly uncomfortable, which is why any car I'd buy MUST have a foot rest for my left foot. I agree that moving it the distance from the foot rest to the brake pedal is greater than from the accelerator to the brake.

I think, as many others have said, the problem with such accidents lies with someone who, perhaps as a result of old age (though certainly not at a specific age or for everyone) and/or infirmity, confusion and a lack of co-ordination is the cause.

That's the interesting thing, you are fine using either foot to brake, I am unable to get any feel or finesse with the left foot but naturally use the right. This has one small benefit as the r foot moving to to the brake from the accelerator removes any power going to the engine. Other fields have the same natural anomalies, watch an organist using both hands and feet at the same time and you can bet that they have individual ways of doing it for the same results.

One thing I am not certain of is if anyone using LFB uses it on a motor with brake assist as it either confuses the ecu or works as standard, I can only assume it works as standard as preprogramed?

"....watch an organist using both hands and feet at the same time and you can bet that they have individual ways of doing it for the same results."

Interesting thought. I use both feet when playing the organ; I also use both feet if I drive SWMBO's manual car....but only my right foot if I drive mine (DSG).

Avant, rest assured I remain in awe (and with no small measure of envy chucked in for good measure) of your ability to play the organ.

Our weekly attendance at Buckfast Abbey provides (apart from the more conventionally anticipated benefits) a display of a man (it's almost invariably a man) in total and spectacular command of a truly breathtaking instrument that never, ever, fails to leave us genuinely taken aback ath the skill required to play it.

For those which do measure speed/time of accelerator lift off how that interacts with LFB is an interesting question.

Maybe you haven't read the posts, talk was of speed of moving left foot on an auto from rest point to brake pedal, which as some mentioned may be slower than moving the right foot to brake pedal.

Unless of course I got that wrong as usual.....

My argument with the entire LFB concept is :

you still have the time delay from human reaction to moving left foot off floor to pedal to pressing pedal..

HJ claims LFB allows instant pedal access.

It does not...

Period.

Yep I agree, even a computer is not instant, even if it is a fraction of a second delay its still not instant