How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Hi all - We will soon be the owners of another car an have an insurance question - yes another one !

Volvette is 27 and is applying for her provisional licence. The car we are buying is intended for her when she passes her test (but NOT before!) and my feeling is that I should buy it for her and register/insure it in my name initially. I'd then try to get her listed as a named driver so I can give her a little practice at the same time as she is taking lessons. As soon (or long, as the case may be :-( ) as she passes her test, I'd then register the car in her name and she'd insure it herself as the main driver in order to build her NCB.

For us insurance is important and we don't want to take any chances on that score so I suppose I'm hoping that someone far wiser than me will reply to this post and tell us that what I'm suggesting is indeed the best way to proceed.

PS I know this subject comes up periodically so if anyone can post a link to a suitable thread please feel free and I'll look there. Thanks all !
How to insure - the proper way - smokie
I'm sure I've read before that you cannot collect no claims discount on more than one policy, though I am just as sure there are exceptions.

We decided to insure my daughter (almost 18) in her own right as a Provisional licence holder on the basis that she is unlikely (!) to have a knock before passing her test, and therefore would have 4 months towards her 1st years no claims discount before she even passes her test. The policy was hardly any different cost whether she had passed or not.

Probably bad economics, but it worked for us.
How to insure - the proper way - frostbite
In my experience you cannot transfer/use any existing NCB for a second car. The best you can get is 'introductory discount' which, presumably, your daughter could receive on her own account.
How to insure - the proper way - DavidHM
Go to a website (such as Tesco) and see what the difference in quotes is. Given Volvette's age and gender, Tesco or whoever would do a very good deal for her. Alternatively, speak to your existing insurers, explain the situation and see what they say.

My ultimate feeling is that there's no harm done putting everything in her name once she's got the test, at least as long as she'll have her licence before the tax is up. Maybe you could get the seller to renew the tax at your cost. Otherwise SORNing it and then putting it back on the road would be too much hassle, as you won't be able to tax it without a valid insurance policy for the car, which Volvette won't get without a provisional licence.
How to insure - the proper way - Crombster
You can pick up a duplicate no claims bonus for use on another policy. When I started driving at 18 I bought my V6 Omega, which obviously wasn't insurable for reasonable amounts under my own name. I had the car insured under my dad's name using his no claims bonus and for his own car he was given a complimentary no claims bonus on a 'second car' policy with AXA who matched his full 8 years NCB.

At that point in time I had the Omega with Tesco however I guess its a gamble in the long run as it's fair to say I used the Omega more than 50% of the time! Fortunately I never had any accidents so nasty situations never arose.

Perhaps not a fine example of 'how to insure the proper way' but certainly demonstrates that insurers are willing to match already in use NCB's.
How to insure - the proper way - mozzer
Volvoman,
With SWMBO being in the industry I tend to pick up bits of insurance knowledge occasionally. My understanding is that your way of going about things would be correct for your daughter in this instance. You will be looking at a new policy for the vehicle in your own name with her as named driver so an introductory NCB will be the best deal you can hope for.
Not all companies give great discounts to new customers but I'll pass on to you the same advice that I gave to a recent customer of mine who bought an immaculate Pug106 from me for their son under exactly the same circumstances. They told me they'd tried EVERY insurance company under the sun for a quote, the terms of which were exactly the same as those I am advocating here. The best quote they could muster was apparently just under a grand, so they told me. I suggested they tried SWMBO's current lot who happen to be none other than NFU Mutual (yes, National Farmers Union, as was) and, well, let's just say that my Mrs. was on the receiving end of a massive bunch of flowers when they came to pick up the motor after having had a quote from said insurance company! They're in the yellow pages or online if you're not in a particularly rural locality. And no, you don't have to be Farmer Giles these days in order to get a quote - which, I guess, is why they offer such big intoductory NCB's at the moment!! Worth a try I'd suggest.
HTH, Moz ;-)
How to insure - the proper way - keithb
I seem to remember that you're insured with MoreThan. If so, you can use your NCB on a 2nd car. I thought that offer also applied to a spouse's car but the leaflet I have doesn't make that clear.

In addition, they offer £35 off the second car's premium.

The leaflet states - Call 0800 300 220 quoting 2POLMT

I have only heard of MoreThan and AXA allowing duplication of NCB. Sounds worthwhile if Volvette can build up her own NCB while enjoying 65% NCB earned by you (assuming you have 65%). Even more so if she was entitled to the 'NCB protection for life' scheme.

By the way, this is a recent leaflet, dated March 2003 and sent to me within the past month.

How to insure - the proper way - Jonathan {p}
I was in this position a few years ago.

We bought a car for the wife, registered it in her name and insured it in her name. Direct line had no problems with this. All they asked was that we tell them when she passed her test. There was no difference in insurance premium between learner and driver.

I don't see the point in registering the car in your name first and then her's after she passes her test. Best to get her own insurance and start working on the no claims bonus. There's nothing to stop you being a named driver on her policy and helping her to learn to drive (providing you are over 21 and have driven for more than 3 years).

Jonathan
How to insure - the proper way - HF
V - can either you or Mrs V get in touch with me sometime today on a related subject? I have a thought......
HF
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Hi everyone and thanks for the feedback. Tried to call you HF but got the answerphone so left a message.

As always it seems there are several views and options. I like the idea of getting the owner to tax the car to avoid hassle so will probably do that. As for the actual`ownership` and use of the car I'd guess we'd both use it from time to time. I do only 3k miles pa and Mrs V. won't need the car very often either. She works locally and may be giving that up soon so I can;t imagine she'll be doing many miles even after she passes her test. We really just want the car for her to learn on and as a backup should anything go wrong with mine or should we need to be in different places at the same time. I want to be legit about this and don't want to take any chances.
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
OK folks - my insurers require her to have had a licence for 1 year and to have been driving regulalry for 6 months before they will allow her to be put on my insurance. So it looks like we buy the car and I insure it and we wait for that period (during which she takes lessons) or she tries to get insurance in her own name. I'll ring around a bit.
How to insure - the proper way - DavidHM
Go to the Tesco website - I know they're particularly lenient with people who haven't had a driving licence for very long.
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Some more feedback folks. Got a couple of quotes in Mrs V. name which worked out about £650 - ouch !!

Rang Tesco and told them the situation. They quoted me £370 to insure the car with Mrs V as the named driver. Although this would mean no NCD accrued for her I would be able to take her out for extra instruction which my insurers won't let me do until she's had her licence for a year and been driving 'regularly for 6 months'.

When my main car renewal comes up next year, I have the option of then transferring the insurance to Tesco cover and benefitting from a dual car discount. Tesco also said that if I transferred to them and then put the Skoda insurance in Mrs V.'s name she'd get the benefit of my full NCD for as long as we stayed with them. Sounds a bit too good to be true doesn't it ?

Incidentally, Tesco's quote for the same cover as I have with More Than was about £50 dearer but if we get a good deal for dual car insurance it may well still be cheaper to do it this way. I'll ring my lot and see what they have to say. Anyone got any more thoughts ?
How to insure - the proper way - Dynamic Dave
V, try the co-op. They're pretty good with new drivers.
www.cis.co.uk
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Thanks DD - Rang CIS and they quoted £556 fully comp (£50 excess) and £432 TPFT for me to insure with Volvette as named driver. Figures were £1080 FC and £840 TPFT for her with me a named driver. Also tried a broker who came back with FC quote for her at £800.

I guess it's looking like I insure it in my name with Tesco for 1 year and then either swap my car to them to get dual car bonus/joint fully NCD or swap her car to my insurance company for the same reason. She doesn't accrue NCD but will benefit from mine next year. That's the theory anyway :-0
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
You've a good memory Keith and, yes, that's my understanding now too. She will enjoy the same discounts and 'for life' protection as me ! Happy days are here again ....
How to insure - the proper way - DavidHM
Volvoman - now you've got the quote, there's nothing to stop you buying it online and benefitting from their 5% discount, is there? It's not much but if you put it in her name the 5% would take you both out for dinner.

Oh and Direct Line is usually very similar to Tesco, can be a little more expensive but was about 1/3 cheaper for me, as a young(ish) driver of an older car living in London.
How to insure - the proper way - keithb
You've a good memory Keith and, yes, that's my understanding now
too. She will enjoy the same discounts and 'for life'
protection as me ! Happy days are here again ....

>>

Volvoman - I'm a bit confused in view of your earlier comment. Will MoreThan allow Volvette to have the policy now with NCB + protection, or does she have to wait until she's held a licence for a year?
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
She will have to wait Keith. If I insure the car with Tesco with her as the named driver I can take her out for additional practice and she will be able to say she's been driving regularly. Hence, after a year, she will have had her licence for long enough and will have been driving regfularly for 6 months and thereby atisfy More Than's requirements. At that point, if we swap the insurance to More Than we will have both cars with them, will obtain a dual car discount and she will benefit from my full NCD protected for life. Tesco would do the same thing if I swap my insurance to them but since I've just reinsured mine and Tesco came out more expensive for insuring my car I think I'd be better off with More Than.
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Confused ? I am !!!

Rang back Tesco today to insure the car. Spoke to another person to confirm the previous quotes - needless to say they came out different and more expensive. It turns out the original guy must have got my NCB status confused or something so we started again. I got quotes for me to insure the car in my name with Mrs V as a named driver. These were £533 FC, £446 TPFT and £392 TP respectively. Shocked, I asked a few questions and explained what I wanted to do again. The guy suggested that I insure the car in Mrs V's name and ran a quote based on the same car/personal information. This time the figure was - wait for it ! £308.70 !!!!!!!! This is FULLY COMP with the car in Mrs V's name - a learner with a new provisonal licence. Well I nearly fell off my chair as it was so much cheaper. The guy said that an additional £250 inexperienced driver excess would apply but that she was benefitting from my full NCB EVEN THOUGH I AM NOT INSURED WITH TESCO !! Am I gojng mad ? I asked the guy to confirm and he said that was correct - it didn't matter who I was insured with, my wife got the same NCB as me ! I still could'nt believe this so asked him to confirm (which he did) then check again so he went away to speak to a superior and came back with the same answer. He asked if I wanted to go ahead so I said yes and gave the credit card details. I still can't believe my wife will benefit from my NCB even though I'm not insured with Tesco (my car is with More Than). Can anyone tell me if this is happening or am I dreaming ??

Seriously folks - despite having checked, double checked and triple checked the details, this doesn't seem as if it can be right. What do you all think ?
How to insure - the proper way - RichardW
When I insured our second car it was with Direct Line (who underwrite Tesco AFAIK) - who gave me full NCB on the second policy - which was in my Wife's name. I didn't argue - especially as they were the only insurers that accepted the existance of the car that was stood on the drive outside!!

Richard
How to insure - the proper way - eMBe {P}
As for the actual`ownership` and use of the car I'd guess we'd both use it from time to time. I do only 3k miles pa and Mrs V. won't need the car very often either. She works locally and may be giving that up soon so I can;t imagine she'll be doing many miles even after she passes her test. We really just want the car for her to learn on and as a backup should anything go wrong with mine or should we need to be in different places at the same time. >>


Our office accoutnant says "For that type of mileage, use a TAXI".
You will be doing the world's environment a favour and keeping one more car off UK roads.
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Hi MB - The fact that we will own 2 cars won't mean we necessarily use them at the same time often, if at all, so your accountant need not worry about the extra global warming or clogging up our roads. It will mean, however, that we can use either car and since mine is a 2 litre turbo and the other a lowly but far more economical 1.3, I'd have thought there'd be a net benefit to the environment. Both cars will be kept on our property too so we won't even inconvenience anyone by parking on the road. As regards taxi's, they would be much cheaper than owning/running 2 cars but where we live it always takes ages to get one when and the driver has to travel from wherever he is to get to wherever we are before any journey we make commences all of which increases congestion etc. rather than reducing it.

BTW if your guy's anything like the £150 ph Chartered accountant I had the pleasure of sacking last year I bet he and his missus have got more than one car adding to global warming and the fees you pay him keep him in some style ;-)
How to insure - the proper way - eMBe {P}
volvoman: Our accountant's comment was TIC. You would have lost money on your bet. He actually takes a car allowance and walks to work (1 mile), his wife commutes by train. They have a 8 year old Civic. As an IT/Finance staff, he is allowed to spend his car allowance on any road-legal car, and he chooses to spend the money on property. As a DINKY couple, they have bought a few buy-to-lets -the capital growth +income of which will serve as their primary pension fund.

like the £150 ph Chartered accountant I had the pleasure of sacking last year >> Perhaps he would have advised you the same as my accountant. Worth the cost £5 (2 minutes at the £150 p/h) - he would have saved you money with that tip ("use a TAXI"). My accountant says you can donate the £5 to a motoring charity - as he will not charge for advice not taken.
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Good for him MB but I'm sure that'll all change as his income increases !



As someone whose facing similar 'investment for the future' problems, let's just hope the government doesn't change the rules on CGT, IHT etc., etc for the worse just before we get to retirement or die.
The goal posts keep getting moved but we always wind up paying more tax in one way or another :-(
How to insure - the proper way - Mark (RLBS)
Presuming you are honest and open with your insurer and they actually don't make any mistakes;

NCB is earned by a car/policyholder combination. The car can be swapped at anytime, and under some circumstances (e.g. death of policholder)then the policyholder can be changed also.

If you have had two cars insured for some considerable period of time, then you will have earned two lots of NCB which may be used separately, will be reduced separately in the event of a claim and can be used with different insurance companies.

If there is ever an advantage of having two cars on the same policy it is normally related to a multicar discount which is a) typically quite small and b) usually dependent on restricted driving.

You categorically can *NOT* use the bonus on more vehicles than it was earned upon.

However, there is nothing to stop any insurer giving you an introductory discount equivalent to the NCB level, although it is just that - introductory. You would still have only 1 years NCB at the end of your first year, although the discount would remain at the introductory level or increase if appropriate.

This frequently can happen with additional vehicles, or where the years claim free were on a company car or where you can prove you were the substantial/main user on someone else's policy. Although this last one is difficult because you normally have to prove that the policy was rated on you as well.

On the subject of premiums - there is no danger to the cover of your vehicle however badly they mess up the premium. They can, if the wish, come after you for the additional money but the only way that the insurance can be invalidated is by registered letter to your last known address with 7 days notice.

In your situation you are better to insure the car in your wife's name and have you as a named driver. You may be able to argue the point that you are the main user and that it should be rated on you, but I doubt it.

Since you have the bonus you should insure the most expensive car in your name with your bonus and transfer the other to your wife for insurance in her name. Although this will result in an increase in the number of registered keepers on the logbook.

That said, the final task is simply to ring around and get the best quotation. Since your wife is foreign with little driving experience then I suggest you need to talk to the Norwich Union. My circumstances are very similar, although Adriana has a full Chilean licence, and they were the best combination of flexibility, cover and premium. That is not to say that you shouldn't check others as well.

I'd also suggest you find your nearest office of Bennetts Insurance Brokers. Make sure you speak to someone in there who knows what they are doing, not one of the kiddies, and see what they can get for you.

Waiting 6 months is a nonsense. If that were the case then you would be better to wait 6 months before you bought the car.

More Than have quite onerous restrictions on risk acceptance, which is how they are able to hold down the premiums for the business that they do insure. However, many others o not.

I've read the thread but I can't remember what the car is, however as a rough guess you will be looking at a premium around 500 quid.

If you get a really good quote, so good that you suspect that it is wrong, explain to them that you are querying the quotation and you would like to receive somethign in writing. It would then be almost impossible for them to do anything about it at a later date.

Did I cover everything ?
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Thanks for that Mark - you did cover everything and I wish I'd been dealing with you as opposed to the guy on the phone. I accepted Tesco's quote for Mrs V. in order to get the paper work so I cluld check what they'd actually done. I did clarify my query about her benefitting from my NCB several times on the phone and they still said it was correct. Actually I don't need to driver her car as I have my own and don't use it all that much. I asked to be put down as a named driver but given all the confusion I really don't know what the policy will say. If I'm not a named driver I can still take Mrs V out for lessons in the car though and that's prmarily what I want to do for the first year anyway. Thereafter, if/when she's passed her test we'll see what's best to do. More Than said that after a year we'd be able to insure the second car (1996 Skoda Felicia 1.3) with them and share the NCB plus get a dual car discount. I think that's what we'll do. Anyway, I think this one may be a runner so I promise to keep everyone informed - being the cynical, paranoid, prophet of doom I am, I fully expect total confusion when we get the paperwork !!

Thanks again Mark !
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
Well I'll be blowed !!!

Got the paperwork from Tesco yesterday and, sure enough, everything seems correct - even the price !! In fact I could have knocked another £30 off by not having the legal and courtesy car cover. Anyway it appears Mark's right (yet again) and they've given a discount equivalent to my full NCD on a discretionary basis. Well, although I'm gonna check it all again, I'm happy for now and Volvette (or should I rename her Skodette ?) can start learning to drive so watch out everyone ;-)
How to insure - the proper way - J.B.
Why are you asking us this question ? Phone the experts ie the insurance companies. This forum is great value but i wouldn't put it in the " I don't want to take any chances" category
How to insure - the proper way - keithb
But when you phone, you speak to a call centre, possibly in India. I wouldn't trust them to give the correct answer to an unusual or complicated question.
How to insure - the proper way - volvoman
JB - I phoned a number of insurance companies and a couple of brokers and got very different views, advice and quotes from them. In the end I explained the situation in great detail to Tesco again (after my first quote from them) and they came up with the cover we now have. Bearing in mind the previous confusion, however, I wanted to check the paperwork before 'banking' on it all being correct. From what I can see now eveything's down correctly and the cover is exactly what they said it would be and the discount applied is a discretionary one.

The reason for posting on this site originally was because I have little experience in this field and wanted the views of others who'd either been in a similar position or as in the case of Mark) have a good knowledge of the insurance field.

You're right to imply that an air of caution is required when seeking 'opinions' on such important issues, however I feel I've got to 'know' many of the regular posters here and am quite able to separate the 'wheat from the chaff' as it were when it comes to contributions.

My reason for making the point about not taking any chances was that I didn't want anyone suggesting dodgy practice such as insuring the car in my name and not telling the company about my wife learning. People get up to all sorts of tricks with their insurance and my aim was simply to disuade those who might suggest such dishonesty from bothering since I wouldn't ever go down that route.

Finally, the world's full of insurance companies and I think it helps to narrow the field down before ringing around. In this respect the views and experiences of others are very useful. I doubt I would have tried Tesco had the name not been mentioned here and would have spent a lot more money for a lot less cover.
How to insure - the proper way - DavidHM
In defence of Volvoman's posting:

1. The problem wasn't particularly complicated but as ever there is a balancing act between risk and cost. Knowledgeable people on here can help find that right balance for him.

2. Without knowing an insurance company personally, if I was in any way unsure of the legal requirements, the cover I wanted and the deals available, I would be very conscious of their incentive to sell me a policy that would make them more money than I needed to be paying. No one on here is going to take a cut.

Of course, if the insurance company turns you down flat, all you can do in this situation is walk away. No one is actually betting the farm on advice on this board; when situations like that arise, there'll usually be a brief summary of the issues and then advice to contact a professional.
How to insure - the proper way - J.B.
Fair enough, good luck.
 

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