High Court Enforcement

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Tue 1 May 2018 09:21
High Court Enforcement - alan cooper

Ok, heres a really unusual tale, please take it as 100% gods honest truth and advise only if you definately know the answer.

i sold a vehicle last september to a lady, car was delivered to her which is nothing unusual and she didnt have my address, again nothing unusual there as we often recieve phone calls, take depositss, and deliver cars. Lady did grumble a few days after saying shes spent £275 on something that im afraid she already knew about. She had paid £2850 for the car.

That was september, last friday in april i had a high court encorement officer at the door and on my drive was a race car belonging to my son to be raced the next day and my own car. The HCEO said ive got 5 mintues to pay £5600 or the race car goes, if its not paid in 30 minutes its then £6600. I asked what it was about as i had heard nothign whatsoever and he showed me the writ of control, made out to an address in leamington spa of which i have no connection whatsoever.

So he proceeeded to go and clamp the vehicles while i stood there gobsmacked and unsure where to go with this with 5 minutes to spare, he advised me i had zero choice, pay or lose the race car then he will enter the house and remove goods, well how do i tell me son he isnt racing tomorrow, how to i tell my children they have no xboxes.

He said if i pay i can chase it up after, so i paid.

I then did some investigation and found out the address on the ccj and the high court writ were an address i know nothing about, becuase they didnt find me there they did some tracing and found my home address. I visited the address in leamington and students came to the door, they stated they get loads of letters and just bin them, i asked who the landlord was and visited him, he then gave me a letter to confirm he doesnt know me and ive never been a tenant.

I went to the court with an N244 to set the judegment aside, and was told tough, its too late, ive paid. How can it be too late i said, i get one bit of notice with a guy at the door filming me telling me i have no other option but to pay or remove goods, ive seen DCBL on the tv and thats what they do.

I plead, i need to see a judge as the lady has clearly used a ficticious address to pervert the course of justice so i would never recieve any paperwork, she then ups it to the high court, and they come out with a writ of control, so that can happen to absolutely everybody. I ive paid £4500 to her, plus £1000 to bailiffs and she STILL has the car.

I have also been to the police and they have taken a report of fraud. It goes to an external bureau first andf they then pass to police if necessary which they deemed it met criteria

A nightmare scenario which im sure will make alot of you tingle as it could happen to absolutely anyone.

Where do i go from here please? Ive had 5 different lots of different advice from court staff over this so of course im concerned that i really get the correct info please

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Tue 1 May 2018 13:42
High Court Enforcement - Bromptonaut

Citizens Advice

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

who'll probably signpost you to National Debtline:

www.nationaldebtline.org/

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Tue 1 May 2018 13:45
High Court Enforcement - Gibbo_Wirral

You need to get a solicitor. All you'll get on here is advice from archair lawyers.

You say "the lady has clearly used a ficticious address to pervert the course of justice"

But perhaps she just made a mistake as she couldn't track you down and Googled your name and got the wrong address?

It does seem odd that she spent nearly £3000 on a car and didn't have a traceable bill of sale back to your official address?

If you did provide a bill and have a copy, that will work in your favour.

Have you spoken to or approached the woman? You have the delivery address.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 01/05/2018 at 13:47

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Tue 1 May 2018 13:51
High Court Enforcement - Bromptonaut

The National Debtline site I mentioned has a specific section on HCEOs.

www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/highc...x

On face you should havre had 7clear days notice.

I think Gibbo is right, you need lawyer. And for £6k ish it's worth paying.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 01/05/2018 at 13:52

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Tue 1 May 2018 15:27
High Court Enforcement - alan cooper

thankyou your help is superb

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Tue 1 May 2018 15:20
High Court Enforcement - Palcouk

As a side note, if you can prove any vehicle on your drive is not owned by you, but another, they cannot sieze it.

If this is a private address enforcement cannot force there way in to your private house, its different if business premises.

No HCEO is going to say 'you have 5 minutes' to pay or we will remove

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Tue 1 May 2018 15:28
High Court Enforcement - alan cooper

do you want to see the cctv??

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Tue 1 May 2018 16:39
High Court Enforcement - Bromptonaut

do you want to see the cctv??

It doesn't surprise me and it tallies with accounts I hear elsewhere of Bailiff/HCEO action.

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Tue 1 May 2018 16:37
High Court Enforcement - Bromptonaut

As a side note, if you can prove any vehicle on your drive is not owned by you, but another, they cannot sieze it.

Proving it's not owned by you can be made difficult.

I have personal knowledge of an instance where a Bailiff (not HCEO), pursuing a debt for a court fine, clamped the miscreant's Mother's car which was outside the rented home they both lived in. She produced the V5 showing her as the Keeper but the Bailiff rejected this as 'not worth the paper it's wrieen on' and asserted son might be real owner. He wanted to see the purchase receipt. Inevitably having bought the car for <£1k cash three years previously she couldn't come up with this.

She was advised to complain to the Bailiff's employer - a large national outfit well known in the debt industry and to apply to the court issuing the warrant to resolve the ownership issue. There was also an issue because she needed the car for her job as a domiciliary carer and it was worth less than a certain amount it should be distrained against. Bailiff stated that only applied to vans although there is nothing in the rules made by Ministry of Justice to sustain that claim.

Left her to get on with that and heard nothing further so I don't know if she was successful. I think if it had gone to court the bench would have regarded the V5 as strong evidence. IMHO bailiff was hoping she had a bank card and enough money to pay up to make it go away.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 01/05/2018 at 16:42

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Tue 1 May 2018 17:30
High Court Enforcement - concrete

A salutory tale and a lesson for us all. Keep all proof of purchase for any item of value. I am in favour of the courts being able to send Bailiffs to collect unpaid unpaid debts, especially after a judgement order. However this person seems to have been by passed in the system. How can a debt be declared and enforced without the debtor knowing about it? Seems to go against natural justice. I hope it can be sorted out but it does seem like a proper muddle.

Cheers Concrete

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Tue 1 May 2018 22:12
High Court Enforcement - daveyjp
"How can a debt be declared and enforced without the debtor knowing about it?"

Easy. There is no need for the creditor to prove the address of the debtor is up to date and correct before serving Court papers.

There are hundreds, possibly thousands of car owners who have unknown CCJs on their credit record from private parking companies. They PPC get an address from DVLA and its on their system. They never check the address is still correct before sending court papers and don't have to. Papers can be served up to 6 years after the date the invoice is produced. A lot of people move over a 6 year period.

No show in Court, motorist loses, CCJ on record, car keeper unaware until they try and get credit.

Its on Teresa May's to do list, but don't hold your breath.

We had bailiffs at the door just over a year ago. Someone had entered an address wrong on a database, or the database couldn't handle letters in the house humber field.

This went all the way to Court and we ended up with a visit while we were out. I just happen to know a bailiff so was welladvised when I called them back. The bailiffs lied to me more than a car salesman.
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Wed 2 May 2018 13:36
High Court Enforcement - Gibbo_Wirral

The whole DVLA address notification business needs tighening up. Threats of fines don't go far enough -

"More than 2.6million motorists have failed to update their driving licence with their current address and run the risk of a £1,000 fine if they are stopped by the police, according to research by Direct Line Car Insurance."

I once lived in a place which had a communal hallway and open post area. A previous occupant was still using the address to obtain cheaper car insurance and other things. He used to use his spare key to nip in and grab any post.

The police found that his driving licence and car was still registered to that address some three years on. He never got prosecuted for it.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 02/05/2018 at 13:38

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Thu 3 May 2018 18:17
High Court Enforcement - concrete

That is incredible davey. I didn't realise the whole system is in such disarray. I hope you managed to rectify the problem. It sounds like a nightmare. I would like to think that verification of the correct names and addresses was a fairly basic requirement before any action could be contemplated.

Cheers Concrete

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Thu 3 May 2018 21:20
High Court Enforcement - Bromptonaut
"How can a debt be declared and enforced without the debtor knowing about it?" Easy. There is no need for the creditor to prove the address of the debtor is up to date and correct before serving Court papers.

That's not strictly correct. The Claimant must complete County Court form N1 to show their details, those of proposed defendant and the brief particulars of claim. In completing that form they sign a statement of truth.

There's generally no advantage to the claimant in serving at a wrong address. If the summons is returned 'gone away' they're back at square one. If it gets to enforcement and bailiff goes to address and meets an evidenced denial that occupier is defendant claimant is back at square one.

How, beyond the statement of truth, would you 'prove' the address of a putative defendant? T

Biggest issue with parking tickets is motorists who've moved and not told DVLA.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 03/05/2018 at 21:29

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Fri 4 May 2018 16:23
High Court Enforcement - concrete

Good information Bromptonaut. Pretty basic stuff really but getting the right information is vital in any claim.

Cheers Concrete

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Sat 5 May 2018 09:48
High Court Enforcement - Bromptonaut

Good information Bromptonaut. Pretty basic stuff really but getting the right information is vital in any claim.

Cheers Concrete

Errr thank you!!

It's also true to say that some parking companies and their enforcers are slapdash around possibility of DVLA keepership address details being wrong. I've seen more than one instance where vehicle owner was only brought into game late on when bailiffs were involved or a CCJ came to light.

The latter was recent and involved organised and articulate people - they got CCJ set aside witihn a fortnight.

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