DVD - Thanks for your valuable input. Yes, he knows that 6 points takes him back to the drawing board. We're hoping and praying it won't come to that. The really upsetting thing is, he's a son to be proud of : kind, responsible, doing well at school and never ever been in trouble or brought trouble to my door. He's in bits about it, and to think of some of the dross I deal with (Senior teacher in a rough comprehensive) and what they get away with, it's a crying shame. Him, his driving record, his licence, his and his Mum's insurance bill and my wallet are all going to take a caning because of a minor dent in someone's back bumper. It's enough to make you scream.
Thanks again
Bob
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Why are you Bob the builder and not Bob the teacher?
Life's too short to get in such a lather over trivia.
Your son has got a good lesson early in his driving career, it happens and it can be expensive but worrying yourself into an early grave solves nothing.
Now chill and go with the flow. What happens, happens.
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Nothing really constructive I can add, but to get such a conviction for what sounds like a minor error of judgement sounds quite harsh to me, in fact a few things sound a tad odd - shouldn't the woman have claimed whiplash via her insurer rather than one of these b&c merchants?
I must admit I'd be tempted to fight it, but before that, I'd really need to know what the consequences of this would be, and what you are effectively saying if you plead 'not guilty'. However, _please_ take the advice of more knowledgable people over my opinions!
The main thing I can sympathise with is that something so minor can cause so much hassle and expense - in reality, you are paying for others who have more expensive shunts.
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As one or those who regularly calls for harsher punishment for poor driving, I have to admit that this does seem rather harsh on your son.
At least he can console himself that shunting is a common occurrence: I have been shunted 3 times in 5 years and on one occasion the person behind wrote off their car.
And I suspect that we have all made mistakes in the first few years after passing the test. I didn't have an accident through luck rather than skill.
Not long ago an acquaintance told me that he hit someone from behind and they then jumped out of the car in an absolutely ecstatic mood. It seemed odd at the time. Not long after the acquaintance received news that the other driver was claiming whiplash. I have also had some odd experiences where a driver in front does an emergency stop for no obvious reason. They might have been trying to engineer an insurance claim. Hard to tell for sure though.
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Bob
I know exactly what your lad is going through. Same thing happened to me back in 1969 when I was 17. I had exams too and I was really p***ed off. I had only been driving a couple of months. Went to see a solicitor he advised me to plead guilty which I did. £10 fine and 3 points. Ten quid was over a weeks wages for me then!
Cheers
VD5D.
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Bob - May I suggest you and your lad are perhaps getting this out of proportion?
It's not a serious offence in the circumstances you describe. In fact the CPS Code for Crown Prosecutors - which is used to decide on whether ANY offence should be prosecuted) requires the reviewing lawyer (or 'caseworker' - who may not be legally qualified) to consider first, whether there is sufficient evidence to make a conviction likely - here there would appear to be, on the face of it - and secondly whether a prosecution would be in the public interest. Although it can be argued that prosecuting careless drivers IS in the public interest, the test would not normally be regarded by the CPS as satisfied in the case of a 'momentary lapse' of attention 'such as may occur at a junction'... This document is public domain - try library or CPS website.
My advice to you would be to contact the relevant local branch of the Crown Prosecution Service (they tend to be a bit coy about addresses etc but if necessary phone your local police force's Criminal Justice Department (via the main switchboard) and ask them for the CPS postal address.
Write to them, explain that you've just become aware of the court date and that you've asked the court to grant an adjournment. (Of which more in a minute.) Also ask that a LAWYER review the file and consider whether, in the circumstances, the criteria in the Code for Crown Prosecutors are satisfied - or whether they may be inclined to agree that this amounts to a 'momentary lapse' - use that phrase - and 'discontinue' the case. Again use that word! Suggest that alternatively they may consider that referral to the National Driver Improvement Scheme, if available in your area, might be a more appropriate disposal. (If they go for this one it'll cost you £150-ish and your son a weekend of tuition - but no court appearance or points. Not available in all areas - yet - but is in most.)
Also write to the court, explaining that you have need of further time to sek legal advice and request an adjournment. This is no big deal, the courts are VERY used to this and will almost never refuse a first request from the defence to adjourn. It won't make them hate you!
The CPS aren't renowned for their tenacity... they have been known to be swayed and frankly they aren't bothered about discontinuing - they do so in many, many cases for all sorts of reasons and are very keen to maintain their performance indicators for percentage successful prosecutions - if they scent a possible fight on something as relatively low-level as this they may well agree its a 'momentary lapse'.
HOWEVER... if they don't discontinue, I would suggest, sunject to what I say below - you DO NOT NEED and should NOT use a solicitor... the magistrates, whether lay or stipendiary (now 'district judges') have heard all the lame, same, usual excuses trotted out in mitigation by suited people on behalf of their criminal clients - if your son is as described by you, the experience of appearing before a court, with you in court as well, will be daunting admittedly but not insuperable.
Plead guilty by letter, to avoid witnesses having to be called. However make clear in your son's letter that he wishes to attend court and speak to the magistrates in mitigation. If he does so, says he's sorry and explains that he is inexperienced but is normally a careful and considerate driver, who has been taught by his family to respect others and drive well, who regrets the inconvenience caused to the other driver and the court... etc etc - and intends to learn from it, maybe mention the intention (if its true - and Bob, it SHOULD BE true) - of taking advanced training with RoSPA... the bench, who are unused to being exposed to honesty, will recognise and deal with it accordingly. They'd rather listen to someone teling the tale themselves, quietly and honestly, that a thousand people hired to make excuses on their behalf. (Despite what the solicitors, on this site and elsewhere, may tell you - you know it makes sense! After all, would you rather hear a pupil tell you why their homework's late - or a solicitor telling you why it isn't really late at all - and if it IS late, its not really their client's fault - and if it IS their client's fault, they're too poor to fine... etc Yeah, me too!)
Your son should also make clear to the court that he wil be paying the fine himself, and make clear how much he can afford - be realistic and aim to be fined £100! (but don't actualy tel the court the figure!)
However - a health warning - you mentioned passing a claim of whiplash from a 'Fraudulent Claims Direct' type outfit to your insurers. They will want to know about - and may well want to instruct a solicitor to deal with - this prosecution, so if the CPS won't discontinue, talk to them about the course of action with the court I've described.
They normally don't like you to plead guilty without their agreement, but I'd suggest they'd be prepared to agree - maybe even be pleased by - the stance I've suggested. The reason for their interest is that your son MIGHT not be found guilty - for some technical reason perhaps, or maybe a witness on the other side may not be believed... in which case that would in some circumstances assist them in resisting claims by the other side -however in these circumstances, whether pleading, or found guilty - or, maybe found not guilty (technicality or whatever) would seem to have little bearing on the extent of their financial exposure. They would probably rather keep you on side and assisting them in resisting any exaggerated element of the claim. But talk to them first - or rather after you've exhausted the CPS/discontinuance avenue.
Good luck - but don't allow this to haunt you both ... its not SO big a deal, not like he's been dishonest or taking drugs or assaulting someone. The legal system does recognise that!
Neil
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Congrats on that post Neil. Very full, to the point, sympathetic and helpful.
(I don't meant that no-one else has been, just that one really caught my eye)
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Neil
i haven't run in the vack of anybody, nor do I intend to, but i would like to say thank you very much for an informed contribution
stick around !!!
I have to grow old - but I don't have to grow up
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That is a Rolls Royce of a post Neil compared to mine and others Mini.
Excellent.
DVD
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