Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Garry
Last February, I purchased a second hand car (Nissan Micra) for my good lady from the garage I have been a customer since 1995. On the day we took delivery there was no spare key, and when we enquired as to its whereabouts the salesman advised that he would contact the previous owner to get it.

Nothing was forthcoming therefore I contacted the salesman again a couple of months later and he advised that he had had no joy but would try again. Again nothing was received therefore I phoned in October to ask if they would be agreeable to me obtaining the key myself (job was quoted from a Nissan dealer at around £30) and if I sent them the paid invoice would they refund me the full cost. An agreement was reached with the salesman that this would be the case.

Earlier this month I eventually found time to contact the nearest Nissan dealer to get the key cut/programmed in, etc and they advised that the cost would actually be in the region of £45.00. I contacted the salesman out of courtesy to let him know the cost would be slightly more than was first quoted and would they still be happy for me to arrange it and submit the paid invoice to them, or would they wish to deal with it themselves.

Response –

Will not refund the cost at all as we had (apparently) received the car at a considerable discount. My response to that comment was…………… not our problem, there was no hard pushing on our part on the deal, and there was no way that the garage would have lost any money on the deal that was agreed.

I again requested the garage covered the full cost –

Response –

With a 4/5 year old second hand car you must expect some things may be missing. My response was…………… absolute nonsense - scratches, dents, squeaks, wear and tear yes, a missing spare key…………no way.

The salesman then contacted me to advise the garage would meet 50/50 the cost of the spare key. Sounds like an improvement, but based on the fact that we were looking for the spare key from the day we took the car (but the garage has not been able to deliver), and the garage originally offered £30, (50/50 is less than this figure), I feel I cannot accept this and would like to take it further. The garage does not seem to want to budge but I feel that they should ‘cough up’ the full cost of the new key.

I was wondering if members of the forum could advise me on how they see this situation, and how they believe I could take this forward to get the result I am looking for. I know it is only 45 quid but it is the principle I am working to. We are not talking a small garage here it is a Peugeot Dealership from which I have bought 4 cars in the last 7 years, and this dealership carried out most services/repairs during this time!!!!

Can anyone help/advise?
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - NWS
Not a direct reponse to your post but BR people might like to know that transponder keys can be cut at a fraction of the dealer price at Minit stores - I have no connection etc.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Mark (RLBS)
If you are that worried, go in and see the Sales Manager. Explain it to him.

You'll probably get a result, but if you don't then realistically you'll have to stump up for it yourself and content yourself with simply not using them again.

Although I have to say that assuming they sold you a good car at the right price, I'd probably swallow it and just nail them for 45 quid the next time I bought a car from them.

M.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Morris Ox
Take Mark's point, Garry, but all keys are part of the car and they didn't say anything about selling you less than 100 per cent of it.

Trading Standards-wise I wouldn't have thought the dealer has a leg to stand on. Pugugly might know the definitive answer to this??

Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Vin {P}
"the next time I bought a car from them."

Really? Why go back to a dealer so uninterested in sorting out a minor problem? What would they be like for something that might cost them a few bob?

V
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Garry
Thanks for this NWS.

The key for the Micra apparently has a chip in it (for the immobiliser I believe), and my understanding is that Nissan dealers are required to program the new key (or something like that) before it will start the car.

However am I undertanding you correctly when you are saying that Minit stores can actually cut these key types, and even without going anywhere near a Nisan dealer it will start the Micra no problem?

Do you know if the Minit store needs the key code or just uses the main key we have?

Many thanks.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - mal
I lost a key for my Honda Civic and was able to have it copied at a locksmiths without the use of the red key.
It cost me £38, the dealer price was, I think jut over £50.
They probably have the same type of machine.
I did not have to produce proof of ownership unlike the Honda dealers.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Vansboy
I've mentioned before, we've spent a fortune on 'Red' keys, re-coding, spare keys & the like, to make sure this situation doesn't happen .For our customers sake (and our reputation).
I believe there is a duty of care to provide these keys,that should be offered by the dealer.This is a view shared by the Motor Industries Retail Federation, which, at a guess they would be members & therefore should comply with their guidelines.
Worth asking if they belong!
Mark
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - mal
Garry,
On a matter of principle you may not want to, but have you considered contacting the previous owner yourself.
The dealer might only have made only one unsuccessful attempt to contact them and may now for some suicidal business reason decided to be just pigheaded about it.
May save you a lot of hassle.

Another thought to bear in mind is that someone out there has a key to your car.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Garry
Thanks for this Vansboy.

Does the MIRF have a website I can look at? I couldn't find anything when I searched?

Many thanks.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Vansboy
Motor Industry website
www.smmt.co.uk
Mark
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Drivethru
Garry,

I would take it to the sales/general manager, I was in exactly the same situation with a used Micra last year and the garage (Renault) did'nt hesitate to arrange for their Nissan dealership to sort out a spare key and have them recoded. As you say it's the principle and your car should have two keys, you should'nt have the expense of sorting it out.

Good Luck.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - bafta
Pugugly, where are you when you're needed? Swanning around in the armoured Cavalier, no doubt. Surely, this dealer shouldn't be behaving in this fashion?
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - joe
This is not about the law, its about customer service.
Put yourself in the Sales Manager's shoes. He is dealing with an extremely valued customer. He is about to lose them for the sake of a lousy 20 quid. This is in no way a try-on.

If you can arrange to meet him face to face, I cannot believe that you would not have a result.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - bafta
The legal aspect to which I alluded was the salesman breaking a verbal promise for the sake of £45. If this matter was raised when the car was purchased surely this forms part of the contract? Also, under the 'fitness for purpose' cannot a buyer reasonably expect to receive a pair of keys for a 5 year old car purchased from a garage? In spite of the salesman retorting that the car was obtained at a discount it would still have been more expensive than a private purchase and the buyer would be entitled to expect to be dealt with accordingly.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - puntoo
If being reasonable does not work then go to dealers on busiest day possible.

Wait for prospective customer to enter the building. Shout loudly and complain about service. Watch customers disappear. Then ask to speak to the sales manager, and explain that you will be back same time next week.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Garry
To all who have responded, many thanks it is appreciated. Keep them coming -

To respond en-bloc -

1. Re contacting the Sales Manager, it was the Sales Manager I was dealing with and he has actually said he would meet the cost, if it was up to him, however it is the dealership manager who is over-ruling him and refusing to meet 100% of the cost.

2. Trading Standards advised that legally there is nothing that can be done (we sort of knew that anyway but it was good to get this clarified for future reference). The garage does not need to legally provide a key if they did not have one to give. They did agree that they are hardly being role models on how to retain customers!!!!

3. I have been unable to contact the previous owner but am intending contacting the dealership manager within the next couple fo days to get, 'from the horses mouth', the reason why he is not willing to cough up the full amount.

Please keep the comments coming.

Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Garry
Like it Puntoo, like it - don't think I would go that far though!!!

I am going far enough as it is and to be honest can't really be bothered, but I am not letting it lie now.

I have however considered putting a letter in their local rag warning other customers/potential customers of what could happen to them if they do not ensure that they have everything before they drive away from the forecourt. All this for a miserly £45!!!!

Obviously I would wait until after the deal, whatever the split of the cost will be, has been done.

Anybody recommend not doing this for any reason, i.e. has anyone done it in the past and regretted it later? Obviously I would need to be careful what was written, i.e. nothing libelous, but it would be more a general warning. And I think it would give me my 'pound of flesh'!!!!

Am I beginning to sound like I might be enjoying the hassle of it all? Yes.....oh dear!!!!

Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - eMBe {P}
Garry - Let me check I have got this right:
1. You bought the car just over 1 year ago.
2. You are in dispute about a verbal agreement, currently worth £45. Are there any witnesses to this verbal agreement who recall exactly the terms agreed?
3. You presumably live so far away that the cost of visiting the dealer outweighs the £45 saving to you.
4. This samll amount is worth fighting for on principle. And you do not wish to just get a key cut locally and send an invoice to the garage, with a polite letter asking for full and final settlement with a threat to go to small claims court, on the offchance they might just pay up thinking it is not worth bothering to fight your claim.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Garry
M.B.

1. Yes
2. Original agreement was for £30, but as soon as £45 was mentioned the garage refused to pay anything. No witnesses.
3. Yes, but will be down that way in a week or so.
4. Doesn't matter whether it is £30, £45, £450, or £4500, I don't like being told somebody will do something for me and they renege on that agreement. Doesn't matter to me whether agreement is verbal, a gentlemans agreement, or in writing etc etc) in principle it should be met. However I am not that naive to think it doesn't back fire now and again, as it has this time. I am just less tolerant than some I suppose (even for £45). Not sure about the small claims court bit, probably not, I would like to think I will 'thrash it out' with the dealership manager when I phone him.

Thanks again.
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Clear Spot
Gary,
I agree entirely with your sentiment. I very nearly backed out of a £25k deal as the dealer tired to renege on an arrangement we shook on that only amounted to £50 in monetary terms. (settled amicably in the end).
CS
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - scruffythedog118
Yeah, go for it mate, I know I would....
Its principle not money, after all \"a deals a deal\"

Just a word of advise with regards to the 2 extracts that I have pasted below from other peoples comments I had a very similar & equally crap service from the (my car was WORSE when it came out from their garage, but thats another story!) who threatened to take me to court for slander, damage to business ETC,ETC if I did everything that you are also saying.....
Have never stepped foot back into that garage / alleged workshop again, but they lost out on BIG MONEY i know that for a fact.

[QUOTE 1]
Wait for prospective customer to enter the building. Shout loudly and complain about service. Watch customers disappear. Then ask to speak to the sales manager, and explain that you will be back same time next week.

[QUOTE 2]

I have however considered putting a letter in their local rag warning other customers/potential customers of what could happen to them if they do not ensure that they have everything before they drive away from the forecourt. All this for a miserly £45!!!!

BE CAFEFULL THATS ALL IM SAYING !!!
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - Armitage Shanks{P}
Small Claims Court Procedure is easy and cheap. You can download the forms on the Internet and get info on how to proceed too. My local court staff were very helpful, including advice over the telephone and the costs are low. If you win you get them all back anyway. A chap took a deposit from me for a job that he never completed and I took him thru the Court. I got my money back (£60) and all my costs. The total he had to pay me was £112! It took 4 months and the bailiffs visited him twice but I got a result!
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - borasport20
keys are easily lost and disproportianately expensive these days

When I bought my last car from a second-hand car supermarket they made it clear in all their pre-sales literature that they would give you all the keys they had, but if they didn't have a full set, it was hard luck

p.s. - on the subject of getting keys cut by locksmiths, beware. Some keys can be cut to physically operate all the locks, but will not start the engine until they have been 'coded' for the vehicle by a dealer !!


I have to grow old - but I don't have to grow up
Can You Help Settle A Dispute? - eMBe {P}
Garry: Thanks for answwering my questions seeking clarification. It will be interesting to see how you resolve this issue of a verbal agreement 12 months after the event. The dealer could easily get out of this situation as he could easily claim he never made that undertaking or that you were given the 2nd sset of keys. In other words, he could lie and claim taht you were the liar. Do let us know the outcome.
 

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