I should know this, but I don't.... (shame)
On my drive to work I have to take a RH turn at a set of lights. The lights have a RH arrow which only illuminates for long enough for 2 cars to make the turn legally (usually followed by two on the Amber). Sometimes there can be 20 cars queuing for a filter lane with capacity for 5 cars, so blocking all traffic wanting to go straight on.
Is it legal to make the RH turn when the "normal" green is illuminated by the RH arrow is not? The light for straight-ahead is a standard round light, not a "straight-on" arrow.
Just to complicate matters, it's a yellow-box junction, frequently having the exit blocked by traffic heading the other way and ignoring the road markings.
Am I right in thinking that as the straight ahead light is not "directional" it is legal to make the turn?
No Dosh *At last, a sensible motoring topic*
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Should read:Is it legal to make the RH turn when the "normal" green is illuminated *but* the RH arrow is not? The light for straight-ahead is a standard round light, not a "straight-on" arrow.
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>Am I right in thinking that as the straight ahead light is not "directional" it is legal to make the turn?
I'd have said so, yes, if the road is clear of oncoming traffic and it is safe to do so.
Terry
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I agree with Terry. As the green light is round, it means the same as a normal junction without a filter light in that you must give way to the oncoming traffic. The right arrow will come on when the oncoming traffic has a red.
You can wait in the box if you are only stopped from turning right by oncoming traffic. If the exit you are taking is blocked then you can't.
James
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Thanks chaps.
The problem with the yellow box is that there is a left filter as well as a "straight on" for the oncoming traffic. You can sit in the box (legitimately) signalling to turn right with your way blocked by oncoming traffic, only to have the exit blocked by traffic turning left before the oncoming traffic clears. This makes your presence in the box illegal!
Possibly the WORST thought out junction in Bournemouth/Poole and right on the border for the two authorities, so the chances of any changes are slim.
No Dosh ** Quick, talk motoring, Mark's coming! **
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The right filter arrow will be there because it has been recognised that the road is so busy you wouldn't normally get chance to turn right on a green light only. If it wasn't there you might only get 1 car able to turn right per sequence of signals, with it there you get 3 or 4 cars able to turn.
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It's a shame that more use is not made of filters in the UK.
Particularly for left turns, how many times do you sit there on a red with a queue of traffic behind when there is nothing coming across the junction.
A sensible introduction of flashing ambers would do a lot to relieve congestion in urban situations
Brian
Still learning (I hope)
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There is a similar junction near me and I have always assumed that to turn right on the normal green is okay, because the right filter arrow is only turned on at peak times, so in other words, you normally turn right at the standard signal only.
BTW, I am a bit confused about this legitimately sitting in the box thing. I thought that the rule was NO entering the box unless your exit was clear. Understandable? yes, but legitimate? Can somebody enlighten me? I realise that we all see lots of people doing this and have all probably done it ourselves too, but are their genuinely exceptions to the rule, like the one described?
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Box junctions have criss crossed yellow lines painted on the road.
You MUST NOT enter the Box until your exit road or lane from it is clear.
But you may enter the Box when you want to turn right and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic or by vehicles waiting to turn right.
HC Rule 113
DVD
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DVD,
A question on a variation of this theme.
A dual carriageway I use has a long additional(third) filter lane for traffic to turn right at traffic lights - the junction has yellow box marking. There are always lots of cars in the filter lane and it takes 2 or 3 changes of lights to make a right turn as there is always oncoming traffic.
A number of impatient regulars can't be bothered to wait their turn and wait in the straight ahead lane. When the lights for that lane go green(a round green) they pull onto the box and form a parallel queue of traffic waiting to turn right. Inevitably this second queue stops those wishing to go straight on, and to compound matters both queues turning right have to merge into a single lane road. Thus fewer cars in the correct filter lane cross the junction for each round of lights.
So, in the light of your earlier thread, do you agree that the impatient queue jumping P***** have done nothing illegal?
C
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Cardew
Off the top of my head:
Because of the presence of the right filter lane, then this should be used for right turning traffic leaving the two lanes of the DC for straight ahead/left from the n.s.
If traffic are clogging the o.s.lane of the DC and not using the filter lane then IMHO there must be a case of considering unnessary obstruction - an offence.
To get the full legal implication of the box one has to see what
is written in the Bible (Traffic Signs and General Direction Regulations). I do not have access to the full Regs themselves and that on the Web does not identify the signs only mentions their number.
Bit wishy washy - sorry.
DVD
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DVD,
The first 2 or 3 cars can get onto the yellow hatched box without obstructing the o.s. lane of the DC and are, in effect, just jumping the queue of right turning vehicles.
It is the 3rd or 4th car that cannot get onto the box that causes the obstruction. It might be a bit difficult to sort out who to charge with unnecessary obstruction?
C
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Brian - Right Turn on Red has been a common sight in US and Canada for at least 40 years, and can be very handy. Trouble is, it is a local option - i.e. up to the town authority, so one town may have it while the next one doesn't.
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Andrew
Or there's the London solution.
For the uninitiated you just ignore all traffic lights, no right turn signals, speed limits, etc. and save energy by not indicating, having only one brake light working, etc.
Brian
Still learning (I hope)
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Also save money by not buying new tyres, insurance, tax disc etc...
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I believe that there will be an additional red (and amber) light for the right filter if you are not allowed to go. If there is no red you can go if it's clear.
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IMHO if the straight-on light is green you can turn right at any time it is safe to do so, provided it is not expressly forbidden by a red turn-right arrow, or a static sign forbidding right hand turns.
To me the green turn-right arrow gives you the additional assurance that: "Oncoming traffic *should* be held back." ;-)
Oz (as was)
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Thank you everyone.
The consensus is that it's ok to turn on the stright-ahead green in this case. Of course, I could always leave home 30 minutes earlier and miss all the traffic.....
No Dosh.
No Dosh ** Quick, talk motoring, Mark's coming! **
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