Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Warning

I often wonder what might happen if a major catastrophic event caused civilisation to collapse : think Mad Max. How would people rebuild their lives in a world without functioning infrastructure? With no petrol or diesel at the pumps, we’d be forced to find alternatives, perhaps by producing fuel from food sources, like biofuel.

In such a scenario, only older vehicles with diesel engines might stand a chance, as they can run on straight vegetable oil with minimal modification. Unfortunately, those vehicles are rapidly disappearing, sc***ped in favour of modern engines that can’t handle unrefined fuels.

So what options would remain?

Maybe the Scots could keep their cars running on whisky? but what about the rest of us?

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - movilogo

Modern civilization is highly interlinked. Even a small problem can cascade to big things via supply chain domino effect.

In OP's hypothetical scenario, bicycles would be best bet.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Engineer Andy

Modern civilization is highly interlinked. Even a small problem can cascade to big things via supply chain domino effect.

In OP's hypothetical scenario, bicycles would be best bet.

We saw first-hand during the Plandemic how globalisation has made much of the industrialised world dangerously dependent upon each other, and often some very scarce products / natural resources (e.g. rare Earth minerals), many of which are controlled by some rather nasty regimes or just a handful of nations / companies.

It should've been a global wake-up call to everyone (people and nations) to become more self-sufficient and less reliant on others, especially less friendly, less stable, more corrupt and far flung nations and powerful globalist corporates who appear to have little in the way of ethics / principles that most decent people share.

I would note that bicycles need to be maintain just as cars do - cleaning, lubrication, spare parts like chains, cables, brakes and inner tubes/tyres, just like cars, dependent upon usage. Plus you will need to wash yourself and clothes more often if you use a bicycle regularly.

Still a lot cheaper than for a car, but products still need to come from somewhere, and most these days does come from abroad.

Last year, I spent around £1100 on my car (only 1450 miles driven) all told. I cycled (leisure only) around 2500 miles and I spent around (averaging out sunk costs of products bought that will last more than a year) £150 on it and related items.

Whilst I could do grocery shopping using it, it wouldn't be that practical, given I'd have to have a lot more trips (and in poor weather - which could be dangerous), which probably would be more costly for the actual purchases. Plus, of course, I wouldn't be able to buy large items and get them home like I would with access to a car, although very large ones still have to be delivered even now.

One of the problems we face in the modern era is how much of our lives depends on others and technology, especially that is remote from our home and not within easy reach via walking or, at best, a bicycle.

Plus so much we take for granted is deliberately designed to have a relatively short lifespan and little generic parts used, in order to guarantee future business, whether via expensive repairs (if even possible / economically viable) or being forced to replace a whole product just because one or two small (but integrated) components fail.

Other than rust protection, I doubt if few cars made over the last 10 years would be economically viable than those before. Cars, like many products, used to be economically repairable, including well out of their warranty period or the 10-year legal period spares have to be produced after a vehicle goes out of production.

I can't see that continuing, with cars getting like mobile phones, only a lot more expensive and the (new cars) purview of the wealthy only.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Andrew-T

200 years ago, people only travelled serious distances if they had money and/or a horse. The roads were dire, especially in winter, and the only public transport was a stagecoach or possibly a boat if a canal went in the right direction. Trains spread from 1830 onwards and assisted the migration into the towns. Bikes came along later in that century.

So if things were to fall apart as suggested by the OP, we might all have to stop assuming that we can get anywhere we like in the world within a couple of days ?

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - gordonbennet

Your travel arrangments would be the last thing to worry about.

Having seen the behaviour, the violence and thuggery on a black friday sale or over the last must have toy for Christmas, could you imagine what they'd do to you to get your food and essentials and if you happened to live somewhere that could be defended they'd come mob handed and you'd either surrender and leave, if they let you, or fight it out and hope to survive.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - bathtub tom

I recall a TV play about this type of situation. A (smug) husband had a generator, unfortunately the 'others' realised it was the only house with lights on, broke down the door and nicked the generator and fuel supply!

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Engineer Andy

Your travel arrangments would be the last thing to worry about.

Having seen the behaviour, the violence and thuggery on a black friday sale or over the last must have toy for Christmas, could you imagine what they'd do to you to get your food and essentials and if you happened to live somewhere that could be defended they'd come mob handed and you'd either surrender and leave, if they let you, or fight it out and hope to survive.

Apparently things are already getting bad with fuel theft significantly up over the last 25 years (and especially the last 4-5), and now those enterprising copper thieves who used to nick BT phone cables and those from railways are now turning their attention to EVs and charging stations, many of which are unattended and not exactly secure sites.

No fuel / leccy, no vehicle use. Fuel and leccy theft quite common in most less developed nations, especially those with little in the way of (proper) law and order.

I wonder how long it'll take the Normies, especially a good number from the woke Millennial and (enjoying retirement) Boomer+ generations to notice before it's too late and the changes are irreversible?

Too many people either with their heads in the sand or playing along in the naive hope they will be either amongst the few proverbial Flying Monkeys of the Elites not to be affected, or the last to be affected otherwise. Sadly many members of my own family and friends are in this cohort.

Unfortunately the rest of us who have noticed this and other bad things going on don't make up a majority (not even close) of voters to be able 'change the system' for the better.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Brit_in_Germany

Well I could carry on as before, charging the EV using the solar panels.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Terry W

The UK has ~2 weeks reserves of gas, ~2 months reserves of oil, and (I believe) ~3 months reserves of food (probably very basic).

A collapse of global production and therefore zero future oil imports would probably lead to rationing within 1 week, and imposition of martial law within 4 weeks to eke out dwindling supplies for food, law and order, water and sewage treatment etc.

Power cuts would become widespread. Food reserves would be exhausted within a few months as fuel shortages limit imports, storage and distribution. All EVs would be requisition for critical services.

Law and order would break down within a week or two. Anyone with evidence of personal advantage would be set upon by mobs. Either mob rule (might is right), or military rule would dominate.

The least of your worries would be "how do I get around". Higher up the priority list would be avoiding personal violence and getting enough food to avoid starvation.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - expat

The world will not collapse. At the end of WWI and WWII there was widespread disruption to food and fuel in the defeated nations but there was no collapse of civilisation before the occupying forces arrived. During the Black Death about 30+% of people died but the survivors carried on. Priests and doctors mostly did their duty despite the danger to themselves.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Andrew-T

All true enough, but conditions have changed after 80 years or more. There are more ways for naughty people to do naughty things, due for example to the internet and global flying.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - movilogo

Most people will turn into zombie if they can't use their mobile phones

:p

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - diddy1234

I see plenty of people walking around my local Tescos that would fit that criteria and were not in those times.................... yet

Edited by diddy1234 on 04/07/2025 at 14:49

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - corax

I see plenty of people walking around my local Tescos that would fit that criteria and were not in those times.................... yet

In the 1978 film Dawn of the Dead, director George A. Romero took inspiration from the supermarkets!

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - bathtub tom

Most people will turn into zombie if they can't use their mobile phones

In my experience, they do when they're using them!

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Engineer Andy

Most people will turn into zombie if they can't use their mobile phones

In my experience, they do when they're using them!

They can also turn nasty, as I discovered the other day when accosted by some bloke in his 20s 'riding' his bicycle on the pavement (it wasn't a dedicated / shared cycle path) whilst simultaneously balancing his shopping bag on the left side of the handlebar and chatting on his mobile using his 'free' hand.

He thought I would just 'get out his way', then decided, in front of all the road traffic passing by, to come back and threaten me for 'deigning' to walk on the path as anyone else would, and reminding him that this wasn't a cycle path and a perfectly good (wide) road was available just a few metres away.

No Police around when you need them, although I'd put good money on him not getting nicked if they caught him doing it again, unless he actually threatened Plod or (with witnesses) assaulted the other party. They'd probably would've suggested I just move out of his way.

I do think it's a big irony that smart phones are often used by such 'dumb' people, whilst 'dumb' phones (or at least far more limited / targeted use of smart phones for productivity gains) are often used by quite 'based' folk who value their time away from technology and their lives don't revolve around it.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Bromptonaut

they can also turn nasty, as I discovered the other day when accosted by some bloke in his 20s 'riding' his bicycle on the pavement (it wasn't a dedicated / shared cycle path) whilst simultaneously balancing his shopping bag on the left side of the handlebar and chatting on his mobile using his 'free' hand.

I'm prone to a lud stage whisper about being big enough to ride on the road.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - focussed
There were strategic food reserves in cold war days, but all the food stocks and buffer depots had been disposed of by the end of 1995.

www.subbrit.org.uk/features/strategic-food-stockpi.../

When the diesel fuel runs out - make your own.
All you need is used cooking oil, the correct chemicals, basic containers, water and the knowledge and a pair of flip-flops.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VxYuYiZZZA
Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Engineer Andy

Well I could carry on as before, charging the EV using the solar panels.

That is, until some enterprising 'blokes' nicks them right off your roof whilst another two threaten you and yours with deadly violence if you try to intervene or call the Police, not that they'd be around to help anyway in such times.

And what happens even if you are lucky to avoid that, when the PV panels and/or related equipment go wrong / fail permanently (end-of life) or don't provide sufficient power for your needs, especially if / when there's no grid-based leccy?

Most PV systems for houses (never mind flats, which have far less roof space for them per property) won't be able to continually sustain usage for the home and an EV. You'd be lucky to get a day or two's usage (backup to a battery wall) out of them over a week in summer, and far less in winter when there's a lot less sunlight available and much greater power needs, especially if the home uses electricity for heating and hot water generation.

The only alternative would be (as you probably were aware of during the 'problem period' over the last 5 years) cutting down local trees for firewood - obviously not a sustainable (and I mean use of the resource compare to the population size) method over more than a few weeks / months in one year only.

Plus, where would you get spare parts and maintenance done for your EV when needed? I don't recall seeing any branches of Halfords or useable car repair shops in any dystopian future films like Mad Max.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - galileo

Well I could carry on as before, charging the EV using the solar panels.

That is, until some enterprising 'blokes' nicks them right off your roof whilst another two threaten you and yours with deadly violence if you try to intervene or call the Police, not that they'd be around to help anyway in such times.

In these circumstances self defence would be the answer.

I believe that under current Firearms legislation, provided you have no criminal record you are entitled to be granted a shotgun certificate if you want one.

This would permit you to purchase, acquire and keep a shotgun and ammunition for it .

Police would probably ask what you wanted it for (clay pigeon or game shooting) but I don't think these reasons are required by legislation. (no doubt one of our legal experts can confirm or deny this?)

Edited by galileo on 05/07/2025 at 18:25

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Terry W

In these circumstances self defence would be the answer.

I believe that under current Firearms legislation, provided you have no criminal record you are entitled to be granted a shotgun certificate if you want one.

This would permit you to purchase, acquire and keep a shotgun and ammunition for it .

A far better solution would be to accelerate the transition to net zero - there could be no reliance on imported fossil fuels for transport, domestic heating, commercial premises etc etc.

The only possible problem areas would be:

  • chemicals and pharmaceuticals which need oil as a feedstock, and possibly
  • the inability of countries overseas less far sighted to supply that which we want to buy.
Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - madf
  • In these circumstances self defence would be the answer.

I believe that under current Firearms legislation, provided you have no criminal record you are entitled to be granted a shotgun certificate if you want one.

This would permit you to purchase, acquire and keep a shotgun and ammunition for it .

A far better solution would be to accelerate the transition to net zero - there could be no reliance on imported fossil fuels for transport, domestic heating, commercial premises etc etc.

The only possible problem areas would be:

  • chemicals and pharmaceuticals which need oil as a feedstock, and possibly
  • the inability of countries overseas less far sighted to supply that which we want to buy.

Fertiliser for crops is made using Natural Gas.

Plastic - for everything - is made using oil.

We will rely on them when no ICE cars exits

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Engineer Andy

In these circumstances self defence would be the answer.

I believe that under current Firearms legislation, provided you have no criminal record you are entitled to be granted a shotgun certificate if you want one.

This would permit you to purchase, acquire and keep a shotgun and ammunition for it .

A far better solution would be to accelerate the transition to net zero - there could be no reliance on imported fossil fuels for transport, domestic heating, commercial premises etc etc.

Yeah, that's been shown to work. Not.

The only possible problem areas would be:

  • chemicals and pharmaceuticals which need oil as a feedstock, and possibly
  • the inability of countries overseas less far sighted to supply that which we want to buy.

Plus exactly how will all these things 'get here'? Electric ships and aeroplanes? Back to sailing ships (pirates already making a big comeback) but 100x larger, or doing an 'Exxon Valdez' from the film Waterworld and employing hundreds, maybe thousands of 'men' to row the ship along.

Or as others have said, our reliance on plastic for huge amounts of manufactured goods vital to our lives, never mind all the mining (I can't see electrically-powered diggers) needed to keep making all those nice batteries et al, including for PV panels and wind turbines.

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Terry W

Plus exactly how will all these things 'get here'? Electric ships and aeroplanes? Back to sailing ships (pirates already making a big comeback) but 100x larger, or doing an 'Exxon Valdez' from the film Waterworld and employing hundreds, maybe thousands of 'men' to row the ship along.

Or as others have said, our reliance on plastic for huge amounts of manufactured goods vital to our lives, never mind all the mining (I can't see electrically-powered diggers) needed to keep making all those nice batteries et al, including for PV panels and wind turbines.

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.

The glass really is half empty today!

Just imagine the stimulus to UK manufacturing, agriculture and other industries if deliveries of foreign made goods were compromised and the UK was able to revert to doing it all ourselves using green energy.

Scientists could be funded to research and develop ever better ways to make use of materials actually available to the UK including reserving what little North Sea oil remains for critical petrochemical industries.

That we had power at home from green renewable sources would make us unimaginably better off than if we had none at all!

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Andrew-T

<< Just imagine the stimulus to UK manufacturing, agriculture and other industries if deliveries of foreign made goods were compromised and the UK was able to revert to doing it all ourselves using green energy. >>

This needs thinking through. Before anything else happened, we would have to feed ourselves. At present about half our needs come from overseas, largely because we have weaned ourselves off the boring stuff that grows here, in favour of all those familiar things on the supermarket shelf. When that has been sorted we could start to think about what those brilliant scientists can come up with.

Many of those ideas will depend on materials which we can't find here. We climbed the industrial ladder in the 1800s by flogging most of our coal and iron deposits and products overseas (and of course we aren't even allowed to dig coal now). China is developing a stranglehold on modern essentials. We depend heavily on financial nerds, and I'm not sure how their expertise would develop under this imagined scenario.

Edited by Andrew-T on 08/07/2025 at 18:25

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Terry W

<< Just imagine the stimulus to UK manufacturing, agriculture and other industries if deliveries of foreign made goods were compromised and the UK was able to revert to doing it all ourselves using green energy. >>

This needs thinking through.

I agree - the comment was intended slightly tongue in cheek.

The basic point is that we would be immeasurably better off if we had renewables delivering all the energy we needed - even if it could not replace all imported materials and food.

The alternative in the event of some sort of fossil fuel catastrophe drastically reducing energy available - pretty much everything stops - heating, lighting, transport etc etc.

We would be in WW2 rationing territory - limited supplies of fuel used for critical services only, food and fuel rationing, consumer goods disappear from the shelves, etc. Probably worse than WW2 as consumer expectations have massively changed/increased.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Engineer Andy

<< Just imagine the stimulus to UK manufacturing, agriculture and other industries if deliveries of foreign made goods were compromised and the UK was able to revert to doing it all ourselves using green energy. >>

This needs thinking through.

I agree - the comment was intended slightly tongue in cheek.

The basic point is that we would be immeasurably better off if we had renewables delivering all the energy we needed - even if it could not replace all imported materials and food.

The alternative in the event of some sort of fossil fuel catastrophe drastically reducing energy available - pretty much everything stops - heating, lighting, transport etc etc.

We would be in WW2 rationing territory - limited supplies of fuel used for critical services only, food and fuel rationing, consumer goods disappear from the shelves, etc. Probably worse than WW2 as consumer expectations have massively changed/increased.

Difference is the UK has 'officially' 50% more people (possibly 5-10M more than the estimates) living here than in 1939-45, and with vastly less oil and gas reserves, plus little in the way of coal that can be easily got to.

The green energy sources are by their nature intermittent and (see Spain) difficult to safely integrate into the grid, thus alongside known farming industry capacity, we have relied too much on foreign countries to provide the remainder. That wouldn't happen if things really went pear-shaped today.

If the government of the day tried to impose rationing on society as it now stands, there'd be anarchy on the streets. 'Living within our means' has been the pastime of about 1% of the population since the 1980s and cannot either be taught in short order, nor is it likely to be accepted by the vast majority.

Many would see it as a green light to commit (more) crime in order to get what they want and things would rapidly deteriorate into what is 'normal' in many Third World nations.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Big John

I often wonder what might happen if a major catastrophic event caused civilisation to collapse : think Mad Max. How would people rebuild their lives in a world without functioning infrastructure? With no petrol or diesel at the pumps,

Depends on the event - if it involves an Electro Magnetic Pulse then most modern (post 1980ish?) cars will be bricks on wheels. You'd need an old classic with points etc... How you fuel it though..............

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Steveieb

Maybe that’s why after seeing what happened in Spain earlier this year when the power cuts caused by their governments move towards net zero has alerted many people in this country to take some initial steps to avert a similar but likely event here.

Keeping at least £500 in cash , a stack of bottled water , emergency rations similar to what the armed. Forces use, a small generator or at least a backup supply for the wi Fi which nowadays powers the land line unless you avoided sensibly the switch over to fibre and a supply of essential medication .

Failing that a move to South Island New Zealand may be a good move for those who can afford it like Noel Edmunds !

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Brit_in_Germany

>Maybe that’s why after seeing what happened in Spain earlier this year when the power cuts caused by their governments move towards net zero has alerted many people in this country to take some initial steps to avert a similar but likely event here.

Slight problem - the reports indicate that the power loss on the Iberian Peninsula wasn't due to the energy mix.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - focussed

>Maybe that’s why after seeing what happened in Spain earlier this year when the power cuts caused by their governments move towards net zero has alerted many people in this country to take some initial steps to avert a similar but likely event here.

Slight problem - the reports indicate that the power loss on the Iberian Peninsula wasn't due to the energy mix.

watt-logic.com/2025/05/09/the-iberian-blackout-sho.../
Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Brit_in_Germany

Citing an article dating from May doesn't help you.

www.reuters.com/business/energy/what-caused-iberia.../

Edited by Brit_in_Germany on 07/07/2025 at 22:50

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - gordonbennet

Failing that a move to South Island New Zealand may be a good move for those who can afford it like Noel Edmunds !

The ''safe country'' isn't planned for us of the pleb class.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - edlithgow

You would want to be quite a long way away, and upwind from the most likely sources of an EMP (i.e. thermonuclear detonations) otherwise you wont be needing your car.

In other individually probably less likely (and less apocalyptic) apocalyptic scenarious, a car might be of some limited use, BUT I remember in John Wyndhams "The Death of Grass" his characters decided to proceed on foot across starving Britain to their place of refuge because they were less likely to run into an ambush that way.

Struck me as tactically plausible. They did have guns though, which most Brits dont have access to.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - madf

Old fashioned thinking.

Covid proved what germ warfare can do..

The next one is likely to be targetted and 100% deadly.

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - edlithgow

Old fashioned thinking.

Covid proved what germ warfare can do..

The next one is likely to be targetted and 100% deadly

Well, the Wyndham scenario was a microbiall threat (cant remember its origin) to the food supply, but nukes were involved since the government tried using them on cities to reduce the population to more susttainable levels.

This would probably be too disruptive to be really attempted in practice, unless there were rather implausibly localised but large foci of iinfection that might be so eliminated..

Actual pandemic-generating microbial warfare with 100 fatality would not work as a weapon of war, but would only work as a deterrent, rather like thermonuclear weapon MAD, except you would probably need to demonstrate it convincingly for it to be effective, and you couldnt.

OTOH if a country suffered an accidental or natural pandemic outbreak and didn't try and limit its spread beyond its borders, to equalise the damage, that could perhaps be regarded as an act (or inaction?) of war

Edited by edlithgow on 07/07/2025 at 06:32

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - diddy1234

Well the WEF does want the world population reduced to 500 million people.

It used to be on their web site straight plain and simple

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - alan1302

Well the WEF does want the world population reduced to 500 million people.

It used to be on their web site straight plain and simple

No, it was not:

Link

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - madf

Well the WEF does want the world population reduced to 500 million people.

It used to be on their web site straight plain and simple

No, it was not:

Link

I do love conspiracy stories,, :-)

Reads like the EV threads

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - edlithgow

Well the WEF does want the world population reduced to 500 million people.

It used to be on their web site straight plain and simple

No, it was not:

Link

I do love conspiracy stories,, :-)

Reads like the EV threads

Apocalypse has been overtly planned and massively invested in for over three generations, so doesn't really qualify as a "conspiracy" (because its no secret) and if it did, it would be rather more than a "story"

Post-Apocalyptic Car Usage - Terry W

There is no need for conspiracy theories.

Global populations far exceed the capacity of the planet to sustain everyone at levels close to current consumption levels. The problem is getting progressively worse as China, India and Africa (in particular) aspire to increase consumption towards western levels.

James Lovelock who created the Gaia theory put forward the likely collapse of society well over 30 years ago - long before WEF picked up on the projection.

Small reductions in reproduction rates in some countries will not be sufficient to reduce global populations. Government strategy is anyway centred around increasing birth rates to avoid a demographic timebomb - too few folk of working age to support the elderly.

The only question is "when" and whether humanity gets a hard or soft landing.