Gas boiler blues - John F

Rather than resurrecting the old 'Which Boiler' thread I thought I'd start a new one. I've been told a 15+ yr old Ideal Mini C24(Kw) a weepy auto air valve replacing and also the gas control valve is 'not working fully' - and also needs replacement. It is also in 'poor condition'. Cost - £450. Dilemma is repair or replace? It's in a tiny modernish house with one bathroom, three small rads and two larger ones. I am minded to replace, but quotes have been north of the £2k mark!

The C24 is still apparently widely available for only around £800 including a filter. I am happy to pay £800 for the component parts and the time to assemble them into such a brilliant working machine delivered to my door. However, I am not happy to pay a gas fitter more than £100 an hour to come and drain, flush and perform a simple non-emergency like for like exchange, which according to Google should take no longer than 4-6 hrs, e.g.a day's work - or less if experienced and competent. (my benchmark - locum day rates for GPs are c.£6-800).

Incidentally, the 2009 Grant Vortex oil burner I mentioned in the other thread is still performing well with minimal attention over the years. Much sympathy to those tied into paying ridiculous prices for gas and the pipe network standing charge during the past few years.

Gas boiler blues - Adampr

A plumber would normally cost about £40-£50 per hour.

Personally, I'd have it repaired if it's a fifth of the price. Alternative would be to ask whoever would do the repair for a price to fit a like-for-like replacement if you buy it for them.

Gas boiler blues - daveyjp

A proper flush (which will be needed for warranty purposes) can take a few hours.

This is all time you are paying a gas fitter for.

Gas boiler blues - Orb>>.

I've been told a 15+ yr old Ideal Mini C24(Kw) a weepy auto air valve replacing and also the gas control valve is 'not working fully' - and also needs replacement. It is also in 'poor condition'. Cost - £450. Dilemma is repair or replace?

We had a near identical problem earlier in the year. ideal mini i30 that was 12 years old.

2 years ago replace heat exchanger, improved hot water flow.. this year very tepid "hot" water.

Ideal will come and try a fix for the above price and only charge the ( I think ) £149 call out fee if it does not work.

You can get a brand new ideal searching online and just fit the new one in the same place, same pipework according to our plumber, but he didn't rate them, so he suggested a Valiant Glowworm 30 and fitted complete with new flue drain, flush, clean new filter and chemicals and gas safety certificate for £1870 which was way less than any of the online quotes.

CO4 postcode.

We went with that. it's near on silent, water temp can be easily adjusted on the screen.

You could buy the ideal boiler yourself with a new flue there are complete installation kits available with everything all in.and just get a quote to fit. about 4 hours max

Gas boiler blues - Xileno

I expect a plumber will increase their rate if they're not supplying the parts as they will be losing their trade discount.

Gas boiler blues - John F

Thanks everyone. Also, do I really need one of these new-fangled magnetic filters which have recently been pushed by the trade as a necessary extra? It's a really small system with only five rads, three of which are small.

Gas boiler blues - Orb>>.

If you can flush annually, not much need for a magnetic filter but given the overall cost of a new boiler not too much extra. don't forget the chemicals if you do flush, so not much saving.

If you fit the glowworm it gets a 10 year warranty too.

Ideal is only 5 years, unless one of the newer logic ones.

Gas boiler blues - Terry W

Old boilers have a lot in common with old cars - they don't last for ever. and another component may fail in a few months or a year incurring further cost

At 15 years old you can go the cheap repair route today with risks, or buy new and be reasonably assured of (say) 5-10+ years reliable service.

Questions to ask yourself - (a) can I afford the cost of replacement, and (b) how long to I intend to live in the house.

Personal view (we all think differently) - I would replace if I intended to stay here for 3+ years. It is not just the costs but the hassle of losing central heating and hot water - inevitably at the least convenient time any paying emergency call out rates.

Gas boiler blues - Orb>>.

Personal view (we all think differently) - I would replace if I intended to stay here for 3+ years. It is not just the costs but the hassle of losing central heating and hot water - inevitably at the least convenient time any paying emergency call out rates.

Yep happened to the previous owner of a bungalow I bought last year...£724 to fit a new pump inc callout fee. I found the invoice, yes it was in a previous January.

Gas boiler blues - Engineer Andy

If you can flush annually, not much need for a magnetic filter but given the overall cost of a new boiler not too much extra. don't forget the chemicals if you do flush, so not much saving.

If you fit the glowworm it gets a 10 year warranty too.

Only if the installer is the top-level one with Vaillant. If I recall correctly, there are three tiers for theirs/Glowworm boilers - 5yrs for just A.N. Other plumber, 7 years for the 1st level installer, 10 years for the top level, though some boilers may not be able to go above the 7 mark because they are 'lesser' and/or ones of older design.

Best to check on the website/phone them as necessary.

Gas boiler blues - Orb>>.

If you can flush annually, not much need for a magnetic filter but given the overall cost of a new boiler not too much extra. don't forget the chemicals if you do flush, so not much saving.

If you fit the glowworm it gets a 10 year warranty too.

Only if the installer is the top-level one with Vaillant. If I recall correctly, there are three tiers for theirs/Glowworm boilers - 5yrs for just A.N. Other plumber, 7 years for the 1st level installer, 10 years for the top level, though some boilers may not be able to go above the 7 mark because they are 'lesser' and/or ones of older design.

Best to check on the website/phone them as necessary.

Mine is the approved installer. 10 year warranty.

To another poster was a 1 man job about 4 and a bit hours. "womble" collected shortly after putting on driveway.. do they have sensors?

Gas boiler blues - bathtub tom

Thanks everyone. Also, do I really need one of these new-fangled magnetic filters

The last boiler I had fitted had one as part of the package and I believe it was necessary for the warranty. Bear in mind where it's fitted, mine was fitted in the loft with its base on the plasterboard. There's a plug in the bottom that's necessary to remove to flush it (an annual job). Means I have to remove the whole filter each year!

Gas boiler blues - Engineer Andy

I can understand many people's reluctance to part with well over £2k for a 'standard' boiler installation, especially when they find out how much the actual boiler costs to buy.

I agree with those who state that a decent plumber should be charging in the range £40 (if you're very lucky) to £60 per hour for their work.

Note that often the replacement of a boiler will be a two-man job, hence why they may charge much nearer the £100ph mark, probably adding on 50% for the plumber's mate, but then things should in theory go a bit quicker and the simple tasks done by them may actually reduce the price compared to if the plumber alone did the job.

In addition, they factor in the cost of disposal of the old boiler, which I doubt if you can just take down the local municipal tip and dispose of at all or for free like you would an old TV.

Add on to all the above and the actual install costs comes the warranty, which you won't have if you do it yourself, unless you are Gas Safe registered and, for upper tier warranties (7-10yrs) have passed the required course to be an 'advanced fitter' for that brand.

That in itself is worth several £000s (maybe more over a 10 year timeframe), given how much you're getting quoted for the repair work, whereas under warranty, its all free, except perhaps for the phone call to report it. Normally, the only things not covered or lesser warranties are the system controller and heat exchangers, which are mostly just 2 years.

If you / your plumber can easily source quality replacement parts and any other boiler / system issues can be fixed for that £450, then I'd go for the repair. I'd be wary these days about DIYing an install or fixing issues internal to the boiler because of the risk if you make an error and the consequences, financial or physical if that leads to some major 'event'.

At least with the repair, it gives you time to research a 'proper' replacement rather than rush into making a decision you may later regret. Rather like the same conundrum for cars.

Gas boiler blues - bathtub tom

In addition, they factor in the cost of disposal of the old boiler, which I doubt if you can just take down the local municipal tip and dispose of at all or for free like you would an old TV

Don't see why not, it's just metal after all and would probably fit in the boot of any car. Round my way, they're just left out in the garden and 'wombles' grab them promptly.

Gas boiler blues - Engineer Andy

In addition, they factor in the cost of disposal of the old boiler, which I doubt if you can just take down the local municipal tip and dispose of at all or for free like you would an old TV

Don't see why not, it's just metal after all and would probably fit in the boot of any car. Round my way, they're just left out in the garden and 'wombles' grab them promptly.

I suppose it depends upon how large / heavy they are and whether they specifically are allowed, given some older boilers (likely floor mounted ones, given wall-mounted boilers, especially combis, rarely last more than 20 years) will likely have asbestos somewhere in them.

More likely is that they are classed as 'business waste' (because 99.99% of the time, a plumber will be involved in the work) and you'll likely have to go to the business waste recycling centre (likely privately run) and pay for the 'privilege' of disposing it.

They could also have lists so ones that originally contained asbestos insulation would have to be separated and special measures taken to keep personnel and the environment safe at all subsequent stages.

As regards 'leaving to Uncle Bulgaria & Sons', I would strongly caution that approach, because, other than copper and perhaps a few metal-only components, its likely that large chunks of the old boiler will end up fly-tipped, the removal of which is paid for by us taxpayers and is obviously NOT good for the environment.

I see an increasing amount of dumped large domestic appliances as well as furniture and builders waste on my cycle rides in the countryside in Herts, Cambs and Essex these days. Yes, it's likely that a good deal of it is actually dumped by the original contractor - builder, plumber local indie appliance shop (in order of how likely they are to do this), but many of them sub-out to these 'people', some who are licensed waste contractors, many not.

We should be taking the moral high road and insisting it be done above-board as best we can. Not doing so sets a bad example for everyone, especially the young.

Gas boiler blues - John F

In addition, they factor in the cost of disposal of the old boiler, which I doubt if you can just take down the local municipal tip and dispose of at all or for free like you would an old TV

Don't see why not, it's just metal after all and would probably fit in the boot of any car.

Neither do I. If the tip refused it, I have screw drivers, spanners, a hack saw and a lump hammer.........Also, there are now commercial ventures known as 'rage rooms' where people pay to smash things up!

Gas boiler blues - Orb>>.

Neither do I. If the tip refused it, I have screw drivers, spanners, a hack saw and a lump hammer.........Also, there are now commercial ventures known as 'rage rooms' where people pay to smash things up!

Yes !

But what are you doing about the boiler? fix or replace?

Gas boiler blues - Terry W

You may find a demand for sc*** boilers due to the high metal content which may also include copper and aluminium. In many areas just leave a boiler, oven, etc in the front of the house and it will be gone before the day is out.

The bit that our local recycling centre have problems is building waste - hardcore, plasterboard, slabs, tiles etc. It won't burn, won't rot, can't be upcycled or recycled - just goes to landfill.