tolerance - concrete

In view of the recent spat between some members of the forum, I would like to make an appeal for slightly more tolerance when challenging opinions. I am in full favour of any legitimate challenge which sometimes exposes weakness in an opinion ventured. However there are ways and means of doing this without resorting to emotive language or verging on personal insults. In my humble view this forum contains some of the best contributors of any forum I have ever visited, bar non. The level of knowledge and advice is remarkable. However there are always going to be questions that are subjective and therefore will draw differing opinion from contributors. If you have ever served on a committee you will know how one simple question can draw many different answers according to how people perceive the question. Madening though it is, that is how it all works and we need to be able to cope with it. One mans' throw away comment is another mans' insult. There simply needs to be some circumspection and tolerance on both sides and sometimes simply agree to disagree. If we, ostensibly intelligent members of this forum, cannot deal like this amongst ourselves then how are we perceived by prosective new members? I have seen comments that indicate some previous, regular contributors no longer participate because of how attitudes seem to be changing. I for one don't see much of this, but would still appreciate more though going into responses.

Sorry to seem to preach chaps, just the way I feel from the most recent events.

Best wishes to all. Concrete

tolerance - oldroverboy.

I second that firmly.

I can give as good as i get, but prefer to get "good" and give the same.

Just to add, sometimes the sense of humour is stunningly good.

No need to "love" each other, but a bit of respect, and the one other forum member i have met with yrg has become a very good friend over the past few years.

tolerance - Andrew-T

One thing which we oldies had to learn in the playground is the difference between well-meaning banter and a deliberate insult. Even the latter could be ignored if one took care not to be riled. These days some people seem to approach daily life waiting for every opportunity to claim they have been insulted. On the web it is harder to tell a sender's intention, so it is best to give benefit of any doubt. Some unfortunately cannot resist the temptation to hide behind anonymity. Maybe that is easier than an hour in the gym with a punchbag.

tolerance - oldroverboy.

Maybe that is easier than an hour in the gym with a punchbag.

I have no wish to be a punchbag.

tolerance - SLO76
Agree.

It would be a dull old world if we all thought exactly the same, liked the same things and voted for the same people. Debate is healthy, even when it's often heated but some do seem to be a little too quick to draw their guns on here. Life's too short for to be dishing insults or taking offence when another opinion doesn't match your own. Relax, you'll live longer.
tolerance - groaver
Agree. It would be a dull old world if we all thought exactly the same, liked the same things and voted for the same people.

Ah, but how many wars might never have happened? (Although if we all liked the same partner that could be a problem!).

DEBATE? ]:-)

tolerance - Avant

I agree with all the above. Best not to say anything on a public forum like this that you wouldn't say to someone's face.

tolerance - FP

The problem, as has often been observed, is that the internet makes a lot of people into charging bulls, easily enraged by what they perceive as red flags, apt to take offence, unable to back down and always demanding the last word.

It's a sad reflection on human nature when a keyboard and a screen turn some of us into raging animals.

Fortunately this forum is better than many. I value the contributions of nearly everyone here, and I've been around for a good many years.

Dare I mention the words "good manners"? Good manners are all about respecting other people, acknowledging their views, if sincere, and even if they are not yours. And perhaps a certain amount of tolerance, combined with a lack of touchiness, might go far as well.

As I said, I don't think we do badly on the whole.

tolerance - argybargy

The occasional generation of heat as well as light is an inevitable byproduct of any discussion forum, and I personally don't regard ephemeral frictions between posters as any kind of problem. Granted, it can be a blasted nuisance for the moderators.

If anyone is in any doubt about just how well this forum runs, visit some of the political forums on Facebook. Some of those guys give the impression that they'd happily tear perfect strangers limb from limb, just for disagreeing with them about who should lead the Labour party, for example.

tolerance - concrete

I agree with all the above. Best not to say anything on a public forum like this that you wouldn't say to someone's face.

I agree with that In principle Avant. It is possible to disagree with most sensible people provided the argument is correctly put. No emotive language, simply stick to the points at discussion. That does hopefully remove the opportunity to drag the argument away from the main point. The big advantage of face to face is, it is possible to determine wether to respond or not!! Thankfully so far we are all mostly on the same wavelength. Cheers Concrete
tolerance - Andrew-T

I agree with all the above. Best not to say anything on a public forum like this that you wouldn't say to someone's face.

Skidpan seems to be on holiday .... :-)

tolerance - skidpan

I agree with all the above. Best not to say anything on a public forum like this that you wouldn't say to someone's face.

Skidpan seems to be on holiday .... :-)

Waste of time posting when the forum is poulated by total idiots.

And those same idiots who others critisize sudenly become best mates when I call them what they are.

There is no cure for stupid and when people do or say stupid things what is wrong with telling them.

tolerance - Gordon17

I don't post often, particularly in threads where there are strong disagreements as I don't think anyone ever changes their mind regardless of how strong the alternative arguments are.

However, I think many posts would be much less offensive to other members if they just started off with, "I think...", or "I believe,,,", rather than stating what are clearly opinions as if they were cast-iron facts.

tolerance - Engineer Andy

I don't post often, particularly in threads where there are strong disagreements as I don't think anyone ever changes their mind regardless of how strong the alternative arguments are.

However, I think many posts would be much less offensive to other members if they just started off with, "I think...", or "I believe,,,", rather than stating what are clearly opinions as if they were cast-iron facts.

Some people (more often new or one-off members) liek to post so-called questions 'asking advice' when actually they are looking for validation for a (often poor) decision they have either already made or are about to. They are also quick to take offence when opinions are posted saying that their choice isn't perhaps the wisest, and it sometimes ends up in a slanging match which does no-one any credit. We all know that sort of person normally is.

I can fully understand it when, especially after someone posts a question and someone takes the time to write a measured reply, then gets trashed by the OP or someone with a different view (neither have to be correct) in a way that is essentially deliberately offensive (looking for trouble) - as such, people can get very irritated when they (often) gone to a lot of trouble finding something out for the OP (especially if the OP hasn't themselves, often when the answer is a few clicks away via a Google search on this website).

I can also see people's frustration when someone does not want to see the other side of an argument and is blinkered, never changing their view, even in the face of overwhelming evidence and making increasingly beligerant comments when 'advice' isn't taken. We are 'set in our ways' to varying degrees (not just a case of how old we are either), but I do think we all need to be humble enough to admit sometimes we get it wrong. Big egos and intollerance are not something that keeps people contributing to conversations, as are the 'snowflake' attitudes of some who take offence at the littlest thing and think that forums are just about one side being right, as we see in certain sections of politics at the moment. [um].

tolerance - Andrew-T

<< Waste of time posting when the forum is populated by total idiots.

And those same idiots who others critisize sudenly become best mates when I call them what they are.

There is no cure for stupid and when people do or say stupid things what is wrong with telling them. >>

I'm treating that as just another leg-pull ....

tolerance - FP

Oh dear - you can't resist, can you?

".... forum populated by total idiots." So that's what you think of us. So much for tolerance. And if we're idiots, why do you bother to post?

"There is no cure for stupid..." So you may as well stop wasting your time.

tolerance - cws

Why bother posting at all then? Everyone has an opinion, you may not agree with it, but there are ways and means to respond. If you feel you're continually frustrated by people not taking your own good advice then quit the forum. Your posts on other people's car issues being non-issues/all their own fault are not always warranted just because you owned the same model and had zero issues. Take for example the BMW N47 cam chain wear issue......BMW would not have bothered issuing a TSB and fixing cars which were well out of warranty had it not have been an issue.

tolerance - Andrew-T

Why bother posting at all then? ...

By his own admission, he hasn't been posting .... Maybe I shouldn't have rattled his cage.

tolerance - argybargy

Don't feed the troll, chaps.

tolerance - skidpan

Don't feed the troll, chaps.

I'm no troll, just p***ed off with the f***** idiots who now frequent this place.

Or are you referring to the ulimate troll JohnF.

tolerance - oldroverboy.

GIRLS..

PLEASE KINDLY PUT YOUR HANDBAGS AWAY, KEEP YOUR TOYS IN THEIR PRAMS or whatever is most appropriate.

It is a good forum,

Please let us keep it that way.

tolerance - concrete

GIRLS..

PLEASE KINDLY PUT YOUR HANDBAGS AWAY, KEEP YOUR TOYS IN THEIR PRAMS or whatever is most appropriate.

It is a good forum,

Please let us keep it that way.

Meanwhile, back at the original thread. A bit of tolerance please. If anyone believes someone is incorrect then there is no harm in pointing out. There are ways and means of doing so politely. If someone has their facts wrong then it does not mean they are stupid, just incorrect interpretation of the information. Cut them some slack, it is not life or death. I for one may not like being corrected but I am often grateful for it because it is an error I won't repeat. Some try to devise foolproof systems; but I know a few very clever fools!!

Come on chaps. Best to all. Cheers Concrete

tolerance - FP

"I'm no troll, just p***ed off with the f***** idiots who now frequent this place.

Or are you referring to the ulimate troll JohnF."

Provocative.

The barely-concealed obscenities and the attempt to resurrect an old spat.

Seems pretty much an attempt to wreck the whole thread. Seems quite a bit like trolling to me.

Edited by FP on 27/09/2017 at 19:02

tolerance - gordonbennet

If people clash, and its obvious several people here do, then why not do the obvious thing and just ignore each other.

I have a particular stalker on another forum, easier to deal with there in some ways because i put him on 'ignore' which means i don't see his posts anyway, after a while such attention seekers get fed up when you no longer bite, i know his jibes have dried up because when others quote him the quotes don't re-quote me at all.

If the spats get too personal and too regular then it can lead to posters leaving, i left another forum for such a reason, final straw breaking the camels back so to speak, life's too short to waste time arguing with the unreasonable.

tolerance - argybargy

Unfortunately, the very act of calling for tolerance sometimes brings intolerance to the surface.

Seems to me this thread, well intentioned as it's OP undoubtedly was, is beginning to fall into that category.

Trolls can add fibre, even substance to a forum if they're funny, if they ask the controversial but sensible questions that others avoid asking and succeed in spicing up the conversation, and if they offer critiques of the status quo in a humorous rather than a boring, glum, self pitying and miserable way.

tolerance - Avant

Skidpan doesn't seem to have read Concrete's admirable sentiments which started this thread. I should also emphasise that John F, however much we may disagree with him, is invariably polite.

Thread closed.

 

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