Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros

Just been charged £528 by Mini main dealer (Sytner) to replace front and rear pads at 20K miles. Pads only, NOT pads and discs.

Mini service website quotes the same job on previous models (2009-2013) at £220 (£115 front, £105 rear) ...under the "value service" section.

www.mini-service.co.uk/value_service

I have challenged the dealer ... they claim that as Mini UK have not (yet) released a "service value kit" for the brake pad change on the F56, they have to charge more than double the price of the job on previous models.

I also challenged the pricing with Mini UK Customer Service - they didn't use the "new model" defence but stated something which is most worrying ...

quote :

"The prices that are shown on our website are a recommend price set by MINI UK. However most of our MINI Centres are independently owned businesses, they’re able to set their own prices if they feel there’s a need to, this is usually depending on the parts used and work that needs to be carried out"

Unquote.

My response to that is ...Nothing on thewebsite suggests that prices are "recommended" or that they can be varied by an individual Mini main dealer. The phrase used on the website is "Transparent Pricing" ..........apparently that means the dealer can charge whatever they like and Mini UK doesn't see that as a problem.

So - I have asked the main dealer what, exactly is so different about pads for the F56 that they cost twice as much to supply and fit as those on the previous 7 years models ? In particular, if front pads for an R56 can be supplied AND fitted for a total cost of £115, why does it cost £102 +VAT just in labour charges to fit front pads on an F56

Before anyone goes down the "all Mini/BMW dealers charge top dollar...go to an independent and get the pads from Euro Parts etc. etc... yes I know that, but when the car is still under warranty, is covered by a 5 year/50,000 mile TLC pack (from new) and is in for its first (TLC covered) brake fluid change PLUS the latest "Quality enhancement " (aka recall) for the axial bearing shells on crankshaft...and the dealer does a vehicle healthcheck and calls at 4pm and says "front pads 99% worn, rear pads 80% worn..and I can replace all of them by 5pm ........what would you do.......you wouldn't spend half a day getting other quotes would you ??

Oh yes...dealer offered me a free MOT in August as a "goodwill gesture"....that really makes me happy.....

So - anyone out there able to tell me why the F56 pads are twice as expensive to supply and fit as the R56 (and previous) ...I would be fascinated to know what makes them so expensive.

And as I have told the dealer "I am unlikely to use Sytner for future servicing, nor, after this episode, could I recommend others to do so" ....as if they care about that.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - daveyjp
Dealers are in business to make money. Once cars get older there is less chance of them being taken to dealerships hence the cheaper cost, on new cars they fleece you because they need to increase income due to TLC costs being low.

I certainly would shop around for basic work such as brake pads. MB quoted me £600 for new pads and disks all round on a B class. Local indie charged £300.

I also doubt brakes were 99% worn, you would have had a pad depth warning well before they'd reached that level.

Unfortunately you have learned never use a dealer for routine work.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - gordonbennet

Superb, give customer huge bill and then try to justify it with some utter cobblers.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros
Dealers are in business to make money. Once cars get older there is less chance of them being taken to dealerships hence the cheaper cost, on new cars they fleece you because they need to increase income due to TLC costs being low. I certainly would shop around for basic work such as brake pads. MB quoted me £600 for new pads and disks all round on a B class. Local indie charged £300. I also doubt brakes were 99% worn, you would have had a pad depth warning well before they'd reached that level. Unfortunately you have learned never use a dealer for routine work.

Fronts were at 3mm...which the service manager verbally (and i have the message saved) stated they classed as "99%" worn. Healthcheck video (out of focus so practically useless) shows sensor wire just about to contact. Rears were 4 or 5mm...classed as "80%".

Edited by mcros on 08/06/2017 at 19:13

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - gordonbennet

Presumably you didn't get a quote before agreeing to the work, so effectively they could pluck a number out of thin air and stick a row of zeros on if you looked rich enough, unfortunately this type of pricing and attitude seems to be more common at the more fashionable* end of the car market.

It used to be the case that one of the regular factors supplied Textar pads to the german car dealer, i myself have short circuited the dealer pad price by buying the identical pads with same part numbers from the factor (indistinguishable with unlabelled OE pads but the box direct from factor didn't have car makers label) for less than half the price of the dealer supplied parts, had you not fallen prey to their 'panic' report i am sure a few minutes research on the right forum would provide the answers for you.

Your exchange with the service bod might not worry them (they do after all have your hard earned) but these threads once linked to on other forums might well worry them.

* i am staggered by a close friend who once again has bought another of these cars, each previous one proving to be serious trouble so much that he dare not keep out of warranty, it does not compute with me, such is the attraction they hold for some.

Edited by gordonbennet on 08/06/2017 at 19:26

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - RobJP

I'm sorry to say this, but if you didn't get a quotation for the job BEFORE authorising the work, then it's your own fault.

Nothing more to be said. You negotiate a price before getting work done. Not after.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros

I'm sorry to say this, but if you didn't get a quotation for the job BEFORE authorising the work, then it's your own fault.

Nothing more to be said. You negotiate a price before getting work done. Not after.

Very helpful response. Thank you.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - elekie&a/c doctor

A few observations.Was the brake pad warning light showing on the dash,or where the pads replaced on the advice of the service dept?The reason i ask is that the pad wear indicators on these are very conservative and there is usually a good 5-6k miles wear still available.Also ,there is no reason why an indy could not have fitted the genuine Mini brake pads and sensors (to keep within the warranty) at a much cheaper labour cost.An hour to 1.5 hours is plenty time to do this job.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros

Was the brake pad warning light showing on the dash

NO

...,or were the pads replaced on the advice of the service dept?

YES

And....the job was completed within an hour..I can prove that....call from service manager at 4pm advising replacement required .....Car ready at 5pm. Labour charge £102 x2 +VAT

(parts billed at £244 + VAT including new sensors)

Edited by mcros on 08/06/2017 at 22:51

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - Lrac

As asked in the original post, is there a difference between previous models ?

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - elekie&a/c doctor
Not sure,but take a look here to compare part numbers,or phone dealer parts dept.www.realoem.com/
Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - tourantass
If you have been charged for two hours labour but can "prove" they only actually took one hour, then surely that is fraud, I would be leaning on them for some refund / credit.
Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - RobJP
If you have been charged for two hours labour but can "prove" they only actually took one hour, then surely that is fraud, I would be leaning on them for some refund / credit.

And all they say is, one technician was working on each side. So 2 people, working for 1 hour = 2 hours labour.

As I said previously, anyone who just gives a main agent the go-ahead on work without getting a price for said work - especially if it's maintenance work, rather than investigating and attempting to diagnose a fault - is asking to pay through the nose. When the dealer phoned the OP up, informing them of the work that needed doing, it would have been a matter of seconds to ask "How much is this going to cost".

Failure to do so is only the OP's fault. Nobody else is to blame.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - skidpan

When we had our Golf in for its 30,000 miles/3 year service the dealer rang and said it needed new front pads. Told then I would sort it. They told me it was a safety issue since it would not get to the next service before running out of pad, told them again I would sort it. One weekend sortly after I dropped a front wheel of to check the pads and they were absolutely fine, loads of material left.

At the 40,000 service they did exactly the same and I told them again to leave them. Still loads of material left.

At 50,000 miles they did the same yet again and yet again I told them to leave them. By this time the pads were down to probably 25% remaining but certainly not worn out.

At the 60,000 service not a mention. At about 63,000 miles I replaced the pads one weekend (they still had material left and all 4 were equally worn). £30 approx for a set of pads (Mintex/Ferodo/Pagid/Brembo?) and a couple of hours on the drive. Would have been quicker with a 4 post lift and a windy gun but such luxuries are not available at home.

But no 2 drivers use the pads at the same rate simply because no 2 drivers use the barkes the same adn we don't all drive in exactly the same conditions.

Sytners price is having a laugh. Seat had fixed price repairs for the Leon I have just swapped, the pads fitted were £125 per axle set.

One last point, I have never needed to replace rear pads on any road car we have owned. Compared to the front they do b***** all (unless you drive round with the handbrake on), Sytner have well and truly robbed you

We bought a Mini Cooper S from Sytners once. After the handover we never went back, it was that bad an experience..

Edited by Avant on 11/06/2017 at 01:03

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - gordonbennet

An interesting thing about wear rates front/rear, on the Mrs' Scooby Outback the rear pads have worn faster than the fronts.

I have never come across this before, all calipers are free and working well, i changed all discs and pads 3 years ago.

All i can put it down to is the all wheel drive (VSC) system braking the rear wheels to maintain grip, SWMBO doesn't hang about she never has and she loves that car because no matter what you ask of it in any weather the car just sorts it all out for you without a hint of drama, but its given me the opportunity for some gentle teasing..:-)

For pads i bought Brembo for the first time, she now has Brembos all round and i am impressed, the pedal and progressive feel is much lighter for the same stopping power, i've also fitted Brembos on the front of my Landcruiser, they were light before now it's more case of just resting your foot on the pedal, fortunately ECP/CP4L now supply Brembo pads so decent prices too.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros

QUOTE (RobJP)

As I said previously, anyone who just gives a main agent the go-ahead on work without getting a price for said work - especially if it's maintenance work, rather than investigating and attempting to diagnose a fault - is asking to pay through the nose. When the dealer phoned the OP up, informing them of the work that needed doing, it would have been a matter of seconds to ask "How much is this going to cost".

Failure to do so is only the OP's fault. Nobody else is to blame.

UNQUOTE

RobJP - maybe you should not jump to conclusions ......

if you read my original post you will see that at no point did I say that the dealer had not quoted a price before the work was authorised. My point, if you can try and understand it, is that having agreed to the work (faced with the 99% worn statement ...I am not a mechanic but that sounds to me like "dangerous") I told them to go ahead. In retrospect - wrong decision. Thank you for pointing that out more than once.

AFTER I was presented with the itemised bill, showing for example the £200 labour charge, I decided to look at Mini's standard/fixed service pricing policy - when it emerged that Mini UK quote £220 for full pad and sensor replacements on over 3 year old cars I decided to question the pricing logic.

My point in posting the experience here was simply to highlight some interesting pricing disparity across models, the fact that Mini UK believe their "value pricing" is simpy "recommende" pricing and open to change by any dealer who wishes to do so..(which might be of interest to other owners who may find the need to have this work done on their vehicles). and to ask if anyone else with perhaps more technical knowledge could explain why brake pads for the R56 cost less than half those of the F56. ..so far nobody, I think, has come up with that answer ...I suspect it is something like "they are bigger than on older models"

Sadly this then gives others the opportunity to post personal criticism.

Thank you for your interest in the subject.

I consider this post closed, although the forum, I think, doesn't give me the opportunity to flag it as such.

Edited by mcros on 09/06/2017 at 19:48

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - daveyjp
Re 'recommended pricing', this is common with all products, see RRP prices on food and books as an example.

Telling sellers what to charge is price fixing and illegal.

You seem to think that all Mini dealers are owned by the company that makes them. Car dealerships are no different to any other retailer. The franchisee bids to sell Minis, Mini agrees, allows them to sell their cars and they can charge whatever they like for any service items etc.

No different to Macdonalds, Subway, Tesco. All franchisees/retailers with different overheads and all looking at making a profit.

I used to get quotes for my Mercedes services from all over the Country. A dealer in a quieter area was a third of the price of one in the south east.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - gordonbennet
A dealer in a quieter area was a third of the price of one in the south east.

I'd agree with that, a colleague car transporter driver used to take his own car to a very rural dealer (on the top of his lorry, he'd arrange for one car less for delivery when this happened) and get it serviced for around half the price at home while he had forty winks.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - daveyjp
I used Mercedes quote system to get a low quote and then used my local dealer. They always price match.
Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - RobJP

I don't see in what way I jumped to any conclusions.

You failed to ask a price for the work to be carried out. When presented with a large bill, you then decided to have a pop at Sytners, and, in furtherance of your case, present pricing for the same work, but for a completely different car.

As another poster has said, MINI's"recommended" pricing is exactly that. A dealer can quote higher or lower than that, depending on their workload, or any other factors, as they see fit.

As to 'personal criticism', if I'd called you a blithering idiot for your lackadasical approach, and implied that anyone who behave in such a m****ic fashion was begging to be ripped off ... well, that would have been 'personal criticism'.

All I did was point out that the only person to blame in this is you.

Take some responsibility for your own (in-)action.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - jc2

In our local area,dealerships of the same group and manufacturer offer different prices-presumably because of workload and location.

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros

I don't see in what way I jumped to any conclusions.

You failed to ask a price for the work to be carried out. When presented with a large bill, you then decided to have a pop at Sytners, and, in furtherance of your case, present pricing for the same work, but for a completely different car.

As another poster has said, MINI's"recommended" pricing is exactly that. A dealer can quote higher or lower than that, depending on their workload, or any other factors, as they see fit.

As to 'personal criticism', if I'd called you a blithering idiot for your lackadasical approach, and implied that anyone who behave in such a m****ic fashion was begging to be ripped off ... well, that would have been 'personal criticism'.

All I did was point out that the only person to blame in this is you.

Take some responsibility for your own (in-)action.

One last time ..."if you read my original post you will see that at no point did I say that the dealer had not quoted a price before the work was authorised. "

If folks have nothing constructive to add.......why post ?

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - Lrac

I do see where you are coming from, I am still waiting to see if anyone can say if there is a difference between your car and earlier cars. You can't be criticised for putting your trust in the dealer for what should be a simple job + as you say there are warranty considerations. Knowing how underhand insurance companies can be I wouldn't put it past them to cause problems if you had an accident driving away to get pads fitted elsewhere.

I consider that you are not at fault the dealer is. Unfortunately this post illustrates that we have all learned to adopt a defensive approach and have learned not to trust anyone anymore. Shame.

The other thing that seems to happen in such posts is people quoting personal opinion as fact although this has not been evident in this post.

Take comfort from the fact it could have been far worse. We do live in a corrupt society.

Perhaps we could start a new post "who's been stitched up the most" ? I am sure you would fare quite well'

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros

Thankyou ;-)

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - Miniman777

While not necessarily OEM parts, the parts number listed on Euro Car Parts for Brembo pads (and clips) is the same for a 2013 (R56) and 2015 (F56) Mini Cooper.

What's needed is a confirmation the Mini parts are indeed the same, suggesting the dealer has question to answer?

Also, which county is this branch of Sytner's in?

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros

I drew a similar conclusion from the Euro Car Parts website.

Buckinghamshire.

Edited by mcros on 10/06/2017 at 00:45

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - skidpan

Many manufacturers offer schemes where service and repair costs are lower on 3 or 4 year old cars than new ones. As an example it was cheaper to get our Nissan Micra serviced at the selling dealer than any small local garage once it hit its 3rd birthday. They probably don't make a huge amount but think about it, every 12 months they get you into the showroom and whilst you are there its possible you may see a new or newer car that takes your fancy and bingo, big profit. Ever noticed that most garages now have the service desk in the showroom rather than being tucked away round the back in an oily car park, it all helps.

Fact is Nissan kept us happy and now we have another Nissan (different dealer - very local one went the extra mile (actually a 240 mile round trip) to get us the car we wanted for no extra money).

For the first 3 services many cars are on companies books and they pay whatever is asked. the person who ran the fleet at one place I worked at did not even drive and was so stupid that when one director reported a spanner warning light on the dash she said she would get him the bub changed. Could you imagine that person successfully challanging an invoice?

When we had Fords from about 1999 to 2010 we always found our local dealer very competitive compared to other brands we had owned recently. But when we went to Scotalnd and visited the local Ford emporium to get the oil topped up we were stunned to see how much cheaper his menu prices were. He told they were placed in groups by Ford and each group had its max prices. A few years later we found out that some lodge owners on the same development we use actually buy their Fords from this dealer whilst they are on holiday and have their annual service carried out whild they are there. Some make huge savings.

Edited by skidpan on 10/06/2017 at 10:19

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - mcros

Nil Carborundum......refund obtained.

Edited by mcros on 17/06/2017 at 00:48

Mini Cooper F56 (9/14 reg) - Brake pad replacement Mini Cooper F56 - jc2

Our local Ford dealer had different prices for the same work if you got a quote from his workshop or from the "RapidFit" on the same site.Usually the workshop was/is cheaper.

 

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