Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling?

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Tue 19 Jul 2016 15:52
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - DAVID P TARBOTTON
Long story short - I ended up buying a flood damaged 3 month old F Type which did not have a Jaguar warranty (invalidated by the flood damage).
Trader I bought it from knew of the Insurance history of the car (he bought it from auction which stated that it was part of a fleet flood damage claim) - but forgot to mention this in his advert/dealings etc. He now says that he never knew about the lack of warranty (doesn't even accept that he bought it from auction although I have a copy of the invoice from that sale!) and to be fair the auction literature didn't mention this despite the Insurance company knowing this before they advertised it!!
I am based in Hull and legal action is pending but wondered if anyone has any positive feedback with any specific solicitors that have clearly dealt with the consumers rights act etc. Ultimately I think that it is an open and shut case as can prove he knew about the insurance history and the car being flooded etc and, even if he wasn't told about the warranty issue, he is still responsible for what he sells being as he advertised ie "comes with full UK Jaguar warranty" as per Autotrader advert.

Edited by Avant on 19/07/2016 at 17:03

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Tue 19 Jul 2016 17:08
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - Avant
I've deleted the final para of your post, which named the dealer and told us not to deal with them. Please read the 'sticky' thread above on naming and shaming.

It isn't clear from your post whether you knew at point of sale that the car was damaged. If it had been me, I wouldn't have taken delivery unless I had the Jaguar warranty in writing.
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Tue 19 Jul 2016 18:10
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - FP
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Edited by FP on 19/07/2016 at 18:23

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Wed 20 Jul 2016 14:17
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - slkfanboy

Its not clear if the car was an insurance right off or not? Had the seller know it was a insurance right off (and it was missing from the V5) you have a claim.

I suspect otherwise you have no claim. A car had a fault in the past and the seller believed fixed and did not state in the advert is not a material fact that needed stating.

Who in an advert states the full fix history of a car?

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Wed 20 Jul 2016 14:54
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - DAVID P TARBOTTON
To be honest I questioned why a trader had such a new car for sale. He stated that he had a good friend who was maanger at a dealership on the Lakes and he often bought ex demonstrators from him
I anyway contacted Jaguar with the car reg and chassis number to ask them mif there was anything on their system 'flagging up the car' and if it was a proper uk car from a dealer etc (thought it might be some sort of import). Jag confirmed all okay and suggested I contact the dealer in Kendal (which tied in with the Lakes comment)
Contacted the dealer who confirmed all okay as far as they were aware and just said to do a hpi check
Did a full (gold HPI check) - all clear
Hence as far as I was aware I had done everything reasonably possible to check its history etc
HOWEVER - this was one of 19 cars that were apparently written off by the Allianz as part of a fleet claim by the dealer due to the flooding in Dec 2015
The dealer has detailed via email that there was definitely water inside the vehicle and ONLY those vehicles with such water inside were part of the claim
The Allianz now state that only my car had no water inside? Hence they did not classify it on the register (the register that they are responsible for and used as part of the hpi check etc).
They then stripped out all the carpet (apparently to check that there was no water internally!!). They knew that the warranty had been removed by Jaguar and sold it at auction
They detailed that it was part of a fleet claim for flood damage but statyed that no water got inside the vehicle. They made great efforts to highlight that the car would not come up on any reports!! They did not mention the lack of warranty - although they have stated in writing that they did tell this to the trader verbally!!

Under the consumer rights act any trader/seller has a legal responsibility for the accuracy of his information used as part of selling the item. my trader made no note of the flood damage nor the fact that the warranty had been voided.
Legally whether he knew about the warranty is irrelevant - he advertised it as having one and therefore he is responsible for this statement that was part of the sale. Yes I agree that you don't have to detail the full history of a car BUT if you knowingly omit information that proves to be relevant then you are responsible for that - even house sales need to disclose arguments with neighbours etc

cheers
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Wed 20 Jul 2016 15:05
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - RobJP
Due to the amount of money involved, this case couldn't go through Small Claims, so costs are likely to be prohibitive. Only you can decide if those costs are worth paying, if you have the money sitting around or not and can afford to possibly lose the case (no matter how cast-iron a case might look, you must always consider the possibility of losing and having to pay both parties costs and the court costs).
An alternative approach might be to obtain a third party warranty which covers as much as possible, and sue the selling garage for that sum.
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Wed 20 Jul 2016 15:14
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - DAVID P TARBOTTON
as my tpms system has already failed (about £500 from a non Jaguar dealership to replace) and the sat nav is having issues/freezing which may involve a new hard drive - I doubt that anyone is going to provide a third party warranty when Jaguar themselves have removed theirs due to "the possible electrical issues that may occur at any point in the future"
Plus would anyone want to drive a car knowing that their is a chance (albeit small hopefully) that their power steering could fail at any time, their brakes could fail at any time, the seat belt system could fail in an accident or the air bag not deploy in an accident?
What is the car systems fail and the car ploughs into a bus queue?
where would I stand legally if I clearly knew that there was a chance of this happening and ignored it?
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Wed 20 Jul 2016 15:07
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - DAVID P TARBOTTON
As a separate issue I have asked repeatedly for the original site assessor's report from the Allianz - who have just repeatedly ignored the requests.
My point is that the dealer and owner is adamant that only cars with water inside were allowed to be part of this claim as in his words "he effectively lost money on these cars as the value he rec'd was much less than what he could sell them for". It seems strange when the dealership owner is so adamant and states that the original assessor looked inside every vehicle and that the assessor should be correct about 18 of them but wrong on mine!
Hence I have asked the question as to the state of the other 18 cars - The Allianz stating that these all had water inside and therefore none were categorised as X - only mine apparently.
They have ignored my requests for both my report and those for the other 18 cars - strongly suggests that there are numerous cars out there with no warranties and possibly faulty electrics
Also have photos provided by the Allianz (but they were actually taken by the dealership) that show a water level over 2" deeper than electrical connections that i can measure under the engine. These photos of the water levels were taken about a day after the high water level as this was the earliest that the dealership could get to their site to assess the damage. The Allianz have refused to indemnify me against any claims due to the electrical issues that can arise at any time with Can bus systems
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Wed 20 Jul 2016 15:38
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - RobJP
You have no contract with Allianz. They have no liability or responsibility to provide anything to you. They can ignore every communication from you until the end of time.

Same for the Jaguar dealership - you have no contract with them, so they have no liability in law to you to provide you with anything.
Your contract is with the garage that sold you the car - and them alone. If you are not happy, then that is where you go. Nowhere else has any liability to you apart from them.
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Wed 20 Jul 2016 15:57
Jaguar F type - any good lawyers specialising in car miss selling? - DAVID P TARBOTTON
I understand this fact but there is something wrong with the whole system if the institutions we trust to protect the consumer re the correct and prompt classification of damaged cars on their register can ignore this register where it suits them and thereby get more money from miss selling what may be a potentially dangerous car.

How many more cars might they (and other Insurance companies) have resold when 'normally' they would be classified as total losses due to flood damage.
How many of the other 18 cars that were part of this fleet claim should have been sold as scrap/spares as opposed to being sold at auction as their own and meaningless cat X?

If any one is injured as a result of using such cars on the road then i am certain that the Allianz will have some legal responsiblity as it they and their agents who allowed this car to be sold and used on the road
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