Dave,
OK OK point taken but......
Timing chains do give trouble. Some of the Mercedes models suffered as did some Nissan Micras. Also the old Land Rover Diesel timing chains would often wear so much by 60,000 miles the pump timing was all over the place......smoke and poor performance.
Chain in your motor then?
David
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David Woollard wrote:
> OK OK point taken but......
>
> Timing chains do give trouble. Some of the Mercedes models
> suffered as did some Nissan Micras. Also the old Land Rover
> Diesel timing chains would often wear so much by 60,000 miles
> the pump timing was all over the place......smoke and poor
> performance.
>
> Chain in your motor then?
Rover has a belt, bike has a chain.
Belt is silent, but needs replacing all the time.
Chain is noisy, but should last the lifetime of the bike engine. For values of lifetime < 50,000 miles ;-)
To be honest I've come round to the belt camp - my mate had a Vauxhaul Manta (remember them) which I thought was a suprb home maintainace 'banger' (actually it was in nice nick and used to go to owners club meets but YSWIM) but the chain *was* a bit noisy.
I reckon the cog driven V4's have the answer.
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OHV engines!
My '89 Skoda Estelle was superb. Or there's the Ford Ka with the excellent (without CAT) Endura-E for 50's technology fans with more cash.
Hmmmmmmm. Push-Rods.
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To avoid valve and Piston damage surely the ultimate solution must be the Rover Gas turbine car of early 60s, closely (?) followed by a Trabant 2 stroke! (Yes I know there are other 2 strokes, inc Wartburg, NSU I think)
All ohv will be suspectible to piston - valve damage if a valve drops from breakage or loss of collets etc. But at least it is generally only one of each.
Other possibly more practical solutions will be of the side valve variety,
Morris 918cc Ford 1172cc and for more power the V8 Pilot come to mind. At least these all can be abused and then repaired!
I have intentionally omitted the exotic Wankel and early sleeve valve engines, since I dont understand them. Some body will probably reply with a list of Steam engines but I dont understand those either!
I remember losing all 8 valves on a (Very) big valve Imp engine when the Chain Tensioner broke and the chain skipped a tooth! So chains are not the total answer.
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Dave
Never seen a Ka without a cat.
As for the Endura E, well, its roots go back to the '59 Anglia 105E engine, and I've changed more than one timing chain on those or their derivatives!
I have to say too that I have been less than impressed with performance of the catalysed versions of the Valencia engine, as have several others to judge by a previous thread. And as for changing the timing chain on the transverse engine........
Cheers
John
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John Slaughter wrote:
>
> Dave
>
> Never seen a Ka without a cat.
There is one. It was called an Anglia. ;-)
> As for the Endura E, well, its roots go back to the '59
> Anglia 105E engine, and I've changed more than one timing
> chain on those or their derivatives!
Oh, you knew. Serve me right for showing off. I'd have thought the timing chain on an OHV engine is v. short and indestructable. - Surely not a service item? If it is it must be a big job?
> I have to say too that I have been less than impressed with
> performance of the catalysed versions of the Valencia engine,
> as have several others to judge by a previous thread. And as
> for changing the timing chain on the transverse engine........
Carry on I'm interested...
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Dave
Anglia - yes, learned to drive in one.
Short timing chains are no more indestructible than long ones, but I wouldn't say they are a service item like a belt. As I say, going back a few years, I've changed them on Fords, Spitfires and A-series. When did you last hear an A-series with over 20k on the clock which didn't have a bit of chain rattle? Probably only one with a duplex chain, or the later type tensioner. Saabs are by no means immune from timing chain problems as the miles mount up. OK, chains rattle for a while and show problems are developing, unlike the silent but deadly belts, but the noise gets to you in the end. In fact, the problem is often the tensioner, rather than the chain.
As for catalysed push rod Fords. At one time I owned a new Mk 3 Fiesta with the 1.3 single point injection catalysed Valencia engine. Barely faster than the 1.1 carbureted Mk 2 it replaced and far worse on fuel. Struggled to hold 75 on Motorway gradients, and rarely bettered 35 miles/gall. At the same time my father had a similar, but slightly earlier, car with a carb, and no cat. I borrowed it a couple of times. Cruised all day at 75, and on the same runs would do 42/44 miles/gall. A number of owners of these engines also suffer from oil sludging - HJ's mentioned it before. Maybe the newer multipoint injection cars are better, but based on personal experience, I'm not impressed, and wouldn't take the chance.
The comment about changing the timing chain on the fwd cars relates to the lack of clearance between the engine and the inner wing. In most cases it looks like an engine out job. There is more space(if you remove the radiator) on rear drive cars. Snag on the old Fords was that you had to loosen and drop the sump a bit at the front, so the chances of an oil leak were high!
Cheers
john
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I had the timing chain tensioner replaced under warranty on a Mondeo V6 I had. It worked like a hydraulic tappet, and as it was faulty, it would take a few seconds to get up pressure in the mornings. Engine came out, and I had the usual problems associated with that operation when the car came back! But that was nothing compared to the hassle I had explaining to the guys at the dealership what the problem was in the first place. Of course they never heard it because I'd leave it overnight with them, some car mover/driver would start it and take it into the workshop, then the spotty twat, sorry, factory trained technician, wouldn't be able to hear anything.
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John Slaughter wrote:
>
[snip interesting background]
Thanks!
Is the Valencia engine a derivitive of the Endura-E? I thought the Ka had the Endura-E but your 1,3 Fiesta would be the same engine as the Ka. Yes?
>A number of owners of these engines also
> suffer from oil sludging - HJ's mentioned it before. Maybe
> the newer multipoint injection cars are better, but based on
> personal experience, I'm not impressed, and wouldn't take the
> chance.
My housemate has a three year old Ka. It does 1.5 miles twice a day and has it serviced every 10k. (About 15 months). I imagine it's sump is filled with white-grey sludge!
Thanks for the history/engine design lesson John!
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Dave
The Valencia engine is the development of the 105E Anglia/Cortina engine used in the Fiesta. Built in Spain hence Valencia. The Endura E is a further development of the Valencia unit.
Regards
john
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Is the Endura-E built in the same factory? It must be a very similar engine it's capacity is *identical*.
Dave
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I believe so, but I'm not 100% sure.
regards
john
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I see HJ mentions a Micra chain failure this week (Sat Telegraph) at low mileage.
I really struggle with my 8,000 mile a year Micra owners to convince them of the need for a 6 monthly oil change, will have to show them the cutting!
David
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