I am not suprised he is not happy. I saw the lap yesterday, there was no blocking going on.
Instead there has been a great deal of official cheating going on. This and making the damping device illegal means that the F1 have conspired to cheat Schumacher to his last tittle.
If he wins the title it will be by deception and theft.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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So why does Webber say that Massa lost time because of Alonso's activities if its not true ....
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webber wasnt watching it.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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According to the pit walk interview Martin Brundle had with Max Mosley, MM said that Alonso was on his outlap and therefore impeeded Massa. Had Alonso been on a hotlap, everything would have been ok. The fact that Massa gained an advantage by using Alonso's slipstream was of course overlooked.
Unless the pettiness of some of the drivers & teams whinging to the stewards over the slightest *infringments* is brought under control, the teams may as well not bother racing at all as the winner could be decided right at the start of the race.
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According to the pit walk interview Martin Brundle had with Max Mosley, MM said that Alonso was on his outlap and therefore impeeded Massa. >>
MM clearly said that the telemetry from both cars showed that Massa was disadvantaged.
>>Had Alonso been on a hotlap, everything would havebeen ok. >>
The rules state that drivers on an out or in lap should not impede another driver on a hot lap, when both are on a hot lap they have equal rights to the track.
>>The fact that Massa gained an advantage by usingAlonso's slipstream was of course overlooked.
>>
Conjecture.
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I am not suprised he is not happy. I saw the lap yesterday, there was no blocking going on. Instead there has been a great deal of official cheating going on. This and making the damping device illegal means that the F1 have conspired to cheat Schumacher to his last tittle. If he wins the title it will be by deception and theft. ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Tosh! Utter balderdash, not worth commenting on.
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Deception and theft I tell you
If Schumacher wins the title this year he will be forever known as the man who lied and cheated his way to the top.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Yep TVM. He was particularly helped by the penalties he received in qualifying at Monaco and Hungary. The two circuits where the biggest race advantage can be gained from.....errr......qualifying well.
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let me be the last to let you down....
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he will be forever known as the man who lied and cheated his way to the top.
The incidents involving Damon Hill & Jacques Villeneuve spring to mind there.
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The issue is not whether he is guilty of sharp practices, which he obviously is, but whether or not the FIA are, this year, 'helping' him along, or turning a blind eye to his sharp practices.
Which they're not.
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let me be the last to let you down....
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The issue is that the FIA, is now too heavily influenced by Ferrari. Schumachers penalites this year have been imposed because they are too blantant to be ignored. It seems that thepolotics in the sport are now at work to swing things the other way round.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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So why wasn't Alonso penalised for cutting the chicane and holding on to his position then?
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let me be the last to let you down....
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Because he had completed the overtaking prior to cutting the corner of the chicane
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The need to cut the chicane was a result of an over ambitious overtaking manouver by Alonso, he should have been penalised though it seems that the FIA wanted to avoid any further controversy, this together with the fact that he impeded.Massa and only went back five places on the grid means he was actually treated very leniently at Monza. The opposite of the carp that Flav and RF are spouting.
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" opposite of the carp that ......"
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what is it with people using this new word "carp". crap is crap. and in my view that is what cheesy is spouting.
i gree with tvm, flavio, plus virtually every other independent observers bar none (hence cheddar, ferrari and the monza stewards are excluded).
alonso has been treated very unfairly in the last few races to the benefit of ferrari.
the chicane incident was looked at carefully by the stewards who found that alonso had not gained any advantage over the car he had overtaken.
remember that apart from schumi's questinable tactics over the years, he is one driver whose teammate has never been allowed to do anything other than help schumi to gain advantage. ferrari have always used their second driver as shotgun rider for schumi. schumi has got his championships with help from his "partner".
he has been charged by the fia and proven to be a cheat, liar, and has had to resort to force his teammates to play second fiddle even when they were winning.
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Yet more tosh Dalglish, balderdash, again not worth commenting on but to say that the word 'carp' is I guess designed to fool the sware filiter which strangely doesnt mind 'crap' though it wont let you type 'f a r t h i n g' without the spaces, what a strange world we live in!
Your conspiracy theory cohort TVM is a regular user of the word 'carp', I may actually have picked it up from him, I must say I prefer it, it means the same though is some how a nicer word.
Oh and by the way my user name is geographical and not culinary.
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"Your conspiracy theory"
You are joking are you not ched me old mate? you know as well as I do, (despite our ahem "respective loyalties") that F1 runs on and is managed by conspiracy on all sides. No theory about it. In truth the skulduggery and conspiracy is one of its appealing factors.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I have been following motor racing for a long time. My early favorite was Stirling Moss, a great chap.
Michael Schumacher is the best driver ever, please stop the British disease of knocking anyone who is successfull. He joined Benetton and took them from nowhere to the top. He then joined Ferrari who had done nothing for years, look what he has done since. As for the co-drivers well what has Irvine, Barrichello, Brundle or any of the others ever done on their own.
I know he is a German, I wish we had a driver half as good, it makes me laugh when I read that Coulthard is critical of Schumacher, words like shoelaces come to mind.
Stop nitpicking, we are privilaged to have seen such a great superstar. We will never see his like again.
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more tosh ... balderdash .... not worth commenting on
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cheesy: it seems that whenever you say that, you then follow up with more unreasoned thoughts. you do know that there is a psychological explanation for replies in a debate are prefixed by these type of words " more tosh ... balderdash .... not worth commenting on "
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more tosh ... balderdash .... not worth commenting on
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cheesy: it seems that whenever you say that, you then follow up with more unreasoned thoughts. >>
No, my follow up commented on the word 'carp' not the tosh you wrote about F1.
you do know that there is a psychological explanation for replies in a debate are prefixed by these type of words " more tosh ... balderdash .... not worth commenting on "
It's called vehermently disagreeing, being so at odds with the view expressed that one considers it irrelevant to comment, however I can do it by way of banter with TVM, why not with you Kenny D?
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what is it with people using this new word "carp".
New? People on this forum have been using it for ages as a substitute for the word crap. Thought someone like you with your photographic memory would have known that ?
DD.
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If he had succesfully completed the manoeuvre, why did he need to cut the chicane?
He could not succesfully hold his position without cutting the chicane, had he have tried to take the corner he would have spun.
He was let off, without a doubt.
May I remind you that before Schumacher's title in 2000, it was twenty one years previous that a Ferrari won the world title. No harm was done to Ferrari's image, and no harm was done to F1. Why then, after winning the championship, and creating a dominant team, would the FIA feel the need to help Ferrari, and more importantly, Why?
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let me be the last to let you down....
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If Alonso had not lost concentration during the fuel burn off period of qualifying he would not have had to weave through the run off area and puncture his tyre.
If he hadn't punctured his tyre, he would not have damaged his aerodynamics.
If he hadn't damaged his aerodynamics he would not have impeded Massa.
If he had't impeded Massa he would not have been penalised.
If he hadn't been penalised he wouldn't have turned the engine up for so long.
If he hadn't turned the engine up for so long, it may have held together.
If it had held together he would have scored some points.
And to throw bits of hot broken car at Massa was just spitefull!
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And to throw bits of hot broken car at Massa was just spitefull!
Lots of it too. Enough to build a clio engine
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The issue is that the FIA, is now too heavily influenced by Ferrari. Schumachers penalites this year have been imposed because they are too blantant to be ignored. >>
Disagree, the penalty imposed at Monaco was harsh relative to Alonso penalty yesterday particularly concerning that fact the FA say that Alonso clearly blocked Massa though there is at the best doubt over the indcident at Monaco.
Also remeber Schu has been penalised in other respects this season, the questionable use of the safety car after Luizzi's spin at the last race left Schu queing behind Massa in the pits which cost him at least second place so he lost 2 points to Alonso rather than gained 2.
He is not a cheat, he is however ruthless and I admire him for that, that ruthlessness has been a key part of his armory, has really helped him acheive what he has acheived often over coming great adversity and the authorities apparently against him (the contrary of what TVM says is happening today) such as the disqualifications in '94 for such minimal indiscressions.
I dont agree with G B Shaw's politics however I have long lived by his quote.......
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
........ Schumacher is a great exponent of that philosophy.
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I do agree with some of what has been said .There is no doubt that Alonso's penalty was strange to say the least.
There have been incidents where Ferrari have got away with rule "bending" that other teams certainly would not have.I have been on the receiving end of some of ferrari's antics and from me all they will get is contempt. As for Mr Schumacher, I am not a fan but I do respect the fact that he always gives 110% no matter where he is in the race.There is nothing worse than seeing your driver give up the race just because he is not going to win.
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