Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
View Threaded
Thu 29 Oct 2020 00:46
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - joegrundy

I ran my 04 X type diesel (bought at 9 years old and 132k miles for £2700) for 6 years and it served me well until November 2019 when inspection revealed terminal corrosion at 192k miles. A 'temporary' 2003 Leon 1.9 tdi 130 for £600 was surprisingly good except for copious smoke and the ubiquitous internal water leaks.

In January 2020 I decided to bite the bullet and buy new or used approved. A new Duster appealed but after much research I decided on a Suzuki Baleno 1.0 turbo (which I still consider to be an excellent car). I found a 3 year old, 29k miles, from a main dealer at £7000 and went ahead. After a £1300 deposit it was £127 a month on pcp (which I intended to later replace with cash/bank loan).

Unfortunately I had to reject the car (old corrosion on roof) and the case went to the Financial Ombudsman. Ultimately, in late September 2020 I 'won' - the finance company (LBG) paid me my deposit (+ 8% interest), my monthly payments less one (to cover the 900 miles I'd driven the car) and £75 for 'biggeration'. The day after they collected the car it was back up for sale at the main franchise dealer at full price. I cannot believe that they had fixed the corrosion, or the leaking corroded air con condenser.

During the rejection process - which was not easy, and I can understand why LBG was fined £63m in June 2020 for bad customer service - I decided to buy another 'temporary' car.

Funds were limited, but I needed something that was capable of at least an 800 mile round trip, and potentially a 2500 mile foreign trip when armegeddon has passed. I confined my budget to £1000 and searched on gumtree for the local area.

I quickly found that decent genunine cars went quickly but I bought. at very short notice, my current car for £950. Not a car I would have chosen at all, but I am very pleased with it.

A 2007 Chevrolet Lacetti 1.6 sx estate,77k. Owned by a retired mechanic who lives round the corner from me, mostly driven by his short Thai wife who seems to have driven by feei (but the scratches are polishing out). First 1000 miles have gone well, about mid 30s mpg in town, mid 40s on a run. More comfortable seats and more rear room than the Jag. No ball of fire but adequate. Impeccable mechanically.

I have come to the conclusion that I'll hang on to this. Why would I spend thousands more for another disappointing 'used approved' or even more for something new? For now, I'm firmly back in the cheapo camp.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 29 Oct 2020 11:10
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - Avant

Many thanks for this Joe. A classic example of making bangernomics work. It helps if you know what you're looking for, as you clearly do.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 29 Oct 2020 11:25
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - mcb100

Not quite as Bangernomics as above, but I'm just back from the MOT station with my daily car - an 07 registered Jaguar S-Type. It was £3000 just over two years ago (from eBay), probably now worth a third of that, but no advisories and not enough smoke to register on the machine means that it's fit for another 12 month's motoring. Once I've done an oil change using either Tesco or Asda own branded oil.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 29 Oct 2020 11:55
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - Zippy123

Not quite the same ball park as Mr Grundy, but you can "bagernomics" a new car if you keep it for long enough.

In 2005 we purchased a new Touran TDI with a good discount and kept it for 11 years and px'd it for the new car.

The cost over the 11 years was £13k - £3k px = £10k / 11 years = £909 a year. With the only major cost on top of that being a refurb ABS pump and some rubber for the steering rack.

SWMBO did not treat the car with mechanical sympathy either. She drove it like a rally car.

The current Note is 4 years old and cost £10k new. Its resale value on WBAC is £5k so £1,250 per year so far.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 29 Oct 2020 11:57
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - craig-pd130

Good story, and I expect the car will be utterly reliable.

Never driven a Lacetti but I once had a Chevrolet Spark 1.2 as a courtesy car and it was a lively little thing.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 29 Oct 2020 16:32
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - Moodyman

I love these stories of cheap motoring.

I drive a 28 year old Corolla that just passed it's latest MOT last week. An advisory was issued for a rubber CV boot, which has since been replaced for £35 - labour and parts. The mechanic commented on how 'clean' it was. He was referring to the lack of corrosion underneath.

Bought three years ago for £650. I have colleagues paying more than this for two months PCP on their entry level German cars.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 7 Nov 2020 10:57
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - barney100

That's a good deal...hope it goes on and on!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 29 Oct 2020 17:34
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - SLO76
Simple, practical and robust cars which make useful banger runabouts. I’d keep it until it explodes.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 29 Oct 2020 19:37
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - gordonbennet

Always been a fan of those, a decent shaped estate section too, well bought.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 30 Oct 2020 06:47
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - madf

Our Yaris cost £7,200 in 2005 - 3 years old.

It is now worth (say) £1200.

£6,000 over 15 years : £400 pa

Jazz cost £12k in 2012.

Now worth £ (say) £4k

£8k over 8 years £1k pa

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 30 Oct 2020 07:17
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - daveyK_UK
and £75 for 'biggeration'.

?
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 30 Oct 2020 07:50
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - joegrundy
and £75 for 'biggeration'. ?

Sorry, my attempt to beat the site's censor. £75 compo for being messed about by LBG. Only a token amount, but it was nice that the FO held that there had been messing about which should be recognised.

Interestingly, I had no communication whatsoever from LBG after I referred the case to FO. I had a phone call from the car collection company arranging pick-up (I made sure I had a written copy of the instruction from LBG to them) and then the money turned up in my bank account. A short letter or email would not have gone amiss.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 31 Oct 2020 22:42
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - up north

My son's a mechanic and runs old cars for a while, presently a peach of a 25 year old Pajero 4x4 and a 2006 BMW diesel estate which both drive superb and cost peanuts. He can usually fix most common issues then after enjoying them can sell them on honestly often at a profit after a couple of years! He now does this permanently having bought from a dealer in the summer then after months of issues getting his money back and the car returned.

Meanwhile like Joe I have had recent issues with cars bought from dealers (AC) and ended up also buying a car from another Mechanic which is like a new car even though 2016 plate. I know three mechanics who bought cars from dealers and despite their knowledge and checks two had to reject the cars due to serious faults. The other still has ongoing issues with one bought for his daughter.

It would be interesting if Joe sent someone to have a look at that Baleno and see if the car has been repaired. If it hasn't the dealer should be reported to trading standards knowingly selling it on the same again.

I mention the above as it seems to be more common buying 3 year old cars from certain dealers to then have serious issues. If mechanics are duped, then it is hard for the rest of us!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 30 Oct 2020 09:25
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - Andrew-T

Our Yaris cost £7,200 in 2005 - 3 years old.

You'll have heard it before, but our Pug 207SW cost £9K at the end of 2008, 8 months old. As it was written off a few years back I might get £1K now if lucky, so £8K over 12 years = £650 a year depreciation. Maintenance - regular oil + filter changes, tyres, discs, pads - just the basic consumables. I'm still waiting for its battery to pack up, which will probably happen if this winter turns cold.

Only other car purchases this century have been elderly toys in the £ 1-2 K bracket, most of them sold for a bit more, but only after some investment ....

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 30 Oct 2020 09:45
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - John F

Our Yaris cost £7,200 in 2005 - 3 years old.

You'll have heard it before, but our Pug 207SW cost £9K at the end of 2008, 8 months old. ......

It's not 'bangernomics' that makes these cheap, it's long term careful ownership of simple well designed and well made reliable cars, e.g. our Focus Estate bought over 16 years ago for £7K; my TR7 bought nearly 40yrs ago for £4250. Good luck with the Chrysler, Joe, seems a good choice!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 30 Oct 2020 11:40
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - daveyK_UK
Guy I was chatting to recently in his £5995 (plus £50 for a spare) Dacia Sandero 14 plate on 106k and still going strong.

He said the only thing he has paid out for beyond servicing, brakes and tyres was a car radio head unit as it didn’t have one!

Bangernomic territory at a grand a year, a heavy mileage and still only 6 years old.

His plan was to keep it until ‘something big’ went wrong.

Edited by daveyK_UK on 30/10/2020 at 11:42

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:16
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - catsdad

My son’s girlfriend has a top of the range 2015 Sandero bought a couple of years ago. Hasn’t missed a beat and it’s now around 55 k miles. It’s now worth about £3.5k but she too will keep it until it dies.

My sister in law has a 2014 Sandero Stepway. It’s been faultless too expect for AC being unable to sort an intermittent electrical fault. Luckily my brother is very competent and traced it to a bent connection in the back of the fuse box. Needless to say he was delighted when the free service deal ran out so he can maintain it properly. Easy to service he says and it is a keeper.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:20
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - John F

'Bangernomics' is not 'a grand a year'! For low mileage drivers, the philosophy of buy quality used and keep for ages enables top of the range cars to cost only a few hundred a year in the long run. In forty years I have bought only four cars for myself - TR7 (£4250), automatic Audis 100 2.0E (£4200) A6 2.8SE (£8000) A8 W12 (£12000). Total cost£27,650 (I got £800 for the A6), and I've still got two of them which must be worth a good few thou. Total mileage 213,000.

Even our high miler family cars have only cost a few hundred a year since 1980 up till when Mrs F was treated to a well deserved new Pug, although obviously £100 was worth a lot more then owing to the continual debasement of our currency. New Ford Fiesta Ghia 1.3 (£4100-2150), used VW Passats GL5 (£5500) 2.0GL auto (£13000) Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec auto (£7000), new Peugeot 2008 1.2 EAT6 (£17000). Total cost £44450, total mileage 759,000.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 3 Nov 2020 21:58
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - bazza

I guess there's no proper definition of Bangernomics annual cost but I reckon £1k a year is pretty cheap motoring isn't it, when you consider that most folk, certainly around here are forking out anything from £250 to what? £350 odd a month for pretty ordinary motors, that soon mounts up to several thousand over a 2or 3year lease.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 3 Nov 2020 22:24
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - Trilogy.

'Bangernomics' is not 'a grand a year'! For low mileage drivers, the philosophy of buy quality used and keep for ages enables top of the range cars to cost only a few hundred a year in the long run. In forty years I have bought only four cars for myself - TR7 (£4250), automatic Audis 100 2.0E (£4200) A6 2.8SE (£8000) A8 W12 (£12000). Total cost£27,650 (I got £800 for the A6), and I've still got two of them which must be worth a good few thou. Total mileage 213,000.

Even our high miler family cars have only cost a few hundred a year since 1980 up till when Mrs F was treated to a well deserved new Pug, although obviously £100 was worth a lot more then owing to the continual debasement of our currency. New Ford Fiesta Ghia 1.3 (£4100-2150), used VW Passats GL5 (£5500) 2.0GL auto (£13000) Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec auto (£7000), new Peugeot 2008 1.2 EAT6 (£17000). Total cost £44450, total mileage 759,000.

My total mileage is somewhere between 7 and 800,000 with a depreciation figure of less than £15,000 from 23 cars

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 4 Nov 2020 08:28
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - John F

'Bangernomics' is not 'a grand a year'! For low mileage drivers, the philosophy of buy quality used and keep for ages enables top of the range cars to cost only a few hundred a year in the long run.

My total mileage is somewhere between 7 and 800,000 with a depreciation figure of less than £15,000 from 23 cars

That is a superb achievement (unless you are a car dealer and they were your 'smokers') - only around 2p per mile capital cost. I think we might be interested in more detail about the type of cars and rate of turnover during the ? time period - 40 years or so?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 4 Nov 2020 09:07
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - Steveieb
The threads that have been posted all claim success in beating the system but how about owning up to the ones that turned into money pits.
Here s mine.
It was an Audi A 2 Tdi which I longed to own after meeting the club at Kimbolton Car show. found one locally in Piedmont red metallic and it was love at first sight. The affair didn't last long after it leaked oil on my drive and the new filler pipe had to be ordered from Germany.
No major faults but constant niggling problems coupled with noise from the 3 cylinder engine and poor ride .
Warned by my friend who was customer services manager to avoid I later found out that the trade has a warning about these cars and some dealers refuse to buy them . A badly built car which I'd just the opposite of my A4 Tdi which continues to give sterling service to match your experiences.
So let's hear your motoring disasters if you are brave enough !
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 4 Nov 2020 11:51
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - madf

The only real money pit I have owned was a 9172 Triumph 2.5PI saloon with Lucs mechnical fuel injection - which was faultless.

I bought it in 1977..and sold it in 1981 when I received a company car and did approx. 30k miles in it.

I rebuilt the engine - new Cord rings, crankshaft regrind, new bearing, valve seats recut and new valves. , new secondhand overdrive relay, new clutch, new exhaust. It then went like stink with all 150bhp there.

Someone crashed into the rear in Liverpool.. new rear valence and bumper under insurance claim (He acknowledged responsibility in writing at roadside so claim was uneventful.)

Total repair bills iirc around £700 (excl crash) - which was a lot of money then.

Earlier a bought a 1961 850cc Mini estate (woody ) with near terminal rear rust. Cost £90 to buy in 1973

Welded new panels , new rear subframe, rebuilt front suspension, new front bungee UJs. Engine blew up at 70mph - rod through block. Fitted an 1100 engine with original gearbox and some cutting. Worked OK but permanent joint oil leak. Replaced rubber bungees several times (oil and abuse) Horrible job U bolts used to spread and had to be hammered to close to fit.

Repairs in total c £350..

Did 10k miles a year. Sold for £100 in 1977.

Rest uneventful.

!946 Rover 16 as daily driver after uni 1969- bought for £80, sold £250. Front drum brakes used to glow red hot and fill car with smoke on long descents in Scottish Highlands. Frightening. But very reliable. Head rebuild after exhaust valve burned out. And axle tramp at 30mph if you hit a pothole - the steering stabiliser was shot.. That was scary.

My 1929 Riley 9 Monaco with fabric body was uneventful . Burned out exhaust valve replaced with one with the car. Relined brakes with new linings which I rivetted on..

Most unreliable modern cars? Both company cars. new.

Rover 820i. Succession of electrical issues mainly electric windows. Dash squeaked HG went. Clutch failed in drive. POC

Mercedes 124 2.6 Saloon. Front suspension, HG failed. Lights failed. Shockers failed .Steering column lock failed with key in it. car undriveable. Made Rover 800 look good

Why anyone wants a W124 I do not know..

Edited by madf on 04/11/2020 at 11:56

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 4 Nov 2020 13:55
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - Trilogy.

madf, I've had my W124 for nine years, always wanted one, delighted to own it.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 4 Nov 2020 14:17
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - madf

madf, I've had my W124 for nine years, always wanted one, delighted to own it.

I must have had a bad one..

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 5 Nov 2020 12:33
Cheapo Cars (Again) - The Philosophy - Trilogy.

That is a superb achievement (unless you are a car dealer and they were your 'smokers') - only around 2p per mile capital cost. I think we might be interested in more detail about the type of cars and rate of turnover during the ? time period - 40 years or so?

John, I'm not a dealer, just very careful with what I buy.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link