On the way into town, a dual carriageway (2 lanes each way) terminates at a smallish roundabout, with 4 'regularly-spaced' single carriageway exits - the straight ahead one being the continuation into town.
The lane markings on the roundabout approach show the LH lane as straight on and LH turn, whilst the RH lane is marked for RH turns only.
So during the early morning commute, many drivers have taken to sliding by (in the RH lane) dutifully-queueing motorists in the LH lane (wanting to go into town), then driving 'all the way round' the roundabout and on into town.
According to the letter of the law, has any offence been committed by these drivers?? Thankfully, I don't actually commute that way - but on the few occasions I've used this roundabout, I've noticed one or two angry 'exchanges'!
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I don't know about the legality, but I do it myself quite often, what's the problem?
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From the reactions I've witnessed, it seems to infringe 'Orderly British Queueing Syndrome'........
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If you mean the RH driver does a 360 to gain right of way to the straight on exit then he is not breaking the law just being sociable I guess. Regards Peter
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Clearly there has been no infringement; it is just an example of stealing a march, queue jumping, 'cheating' or selfishness, whichever one chooses to call it. Another small incitement to road-rage, I suppose.
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.. and of course, the habit increases the congestion because the roundabout is occupied for longer than it needs to be.
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I used to get the bus to work, and all the drivers would do this on a regular basis. I do it from time to time, and confess it feels a little naughty. If you accidentally get in the right hand lane by mistake, and nobody will let you in, there is no alternative to this move, so I take some comfort from that.
I am more worried about the local roundabout where a 3 lane carriageway joins it, but there are only 2 lanes on the roundabout. I have often nearly been squished by lorries on lanes 1 and 3, and the roundabout is a bit of a blackspot.
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Having "coughed" to this vaguely selfish behaviour, I'd say in defence of my style that I always, always anticipate the driver in the n/s lane at a roundabout fed by 2 lanes driving across my path once on the roundabout. It seems to happen about 9 times out of 10.
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I carry out this move at Apex corner on the A1 all the time. Nothing wrong with it and if it upsets you I feel you have to find something else in your life to occupy yourself with.
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If you accidentally get in the right hand lane by mistake, and nobody will let you in, there is no alternative to this move, so I take some comfort from that.
There is an alternative, used far too often at a roundabout near me. If the driver can't be bothered to wait in the queue in the left hand lane, they go down the right and then try and out-accelerate the driver in the left hand lane or simply just barge their way in for the second exit. I wouldn't mind so much if they did go right the way around as it's far less dangerous than this. It's soon going to be even more dangerous as there is currently just enough space for two cars to exit side by side if they are both very careful - now the local council is narrowing the exit. I doubt it'll stop the practice, just cause a few accidents.
As for the the initial point - nothing illegal about it, it's just a bit cheeky. It's nothing less than queue jumping and holds up both the people queuing correctly and those who want to use the right hand lane for going right, not to mention other possible traverses of the roundabout.
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This happens all the time at an island near us, and whilst I will just polish up the halo (ahem) SWMBO is guilty as hell of this.
To be fair she does not do what most "transgressors" do which is do the full circuit and a bit, then stop so blocking everyone else getting onto the island. Now that IS selfish.
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I'ma fraid there is a roundabout in Durham where I do this often, it saves so much time and due to the saize of the roundabout, doesn't seem to hold anyone up, in fact, it sppeds up the movement for drivers in the left lane as it provides a short window of opportunity in traffic coming form the right as I come back around which gives one or two cars the chance to get out that little bit faster.
In my defence, the entrance to the rounadbout that I do this from always gets a raw deal as there is a much busier road enters immediately to it's right, this provides little opportunity to pull out as there is always traffic coming, so er.... in some ways I suppose I'm helping all concerned on my entrance road, and only delaying traffic that always flows faster anyway! :)
I doubt many will belive that tho!
Blue
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>>>> According to the letter of the law, has any offence beencommitted by these drivers?? >>
I class this as arrrogant selfish behaviour. Not only that, it is actually illegal. I know someone who was prosecuted for this offence under "driving without due care & attention" - as he was deemed to have ignored clear road markings & signposts. He was found guilty by Staines Magistrates, fined £100 and given 3 points on his licence.
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So what your saying is that if your in an area you dont know and you get in a wrong lane and then to save cutting across the traffic you simply go round the roundabout without upsetting anybody you are driving illegally!
I don't think so.
People just get upset by this because they are annoyed for not thinking of trying it themselves.
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I think MB's point, or rather the magistrates's point is that wilfully ignoring markings is the crime, rather than being unaware of them because you're unfamiliar with the area.
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Nsar - yes you are right. The guy in question was stopped by an off-duty policeman who had many passing motorists go by saying they had witnessed this guy doing this "move" many times.
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surely for a successful prosecution he must have had either to ignore signs prohibiting something, or signs/markings giving a positive instruction. Or genuinely driven without DC&A.
There must be more to this than meets the eye at present.
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When I was involved in an RTA many years ago, plod advised me that the 'stop line' at traffic lights was advisory only - I would have thought the same applied to the markings in question.
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I just cannot see how getting in a lane and going round a roundabout and then joining the lane you really want can warrant bieng fined. By doing this you are not endangering anyone, you are not breaking any law you are simply saving yourself a little time by keeping moving instead of sitting in a line of stationary traffic. In fact you are probably bieng kinder to the enviroment.
I just can't believe this is all this chap did, there must be more to this story.
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I don't think you've thought this through.
The more people who use the right-hand lane this way, the more time spent on the roundabout not turning, the more people have to wait for you to reach your turning, therefore the roundabout is less efficient.
Rojer
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When I was involved in an RTA many years ago, plod advised me that the 'stop line' at traffic lights was advisory only - I would have thought the same applied to the markings in question.
He was wrong.
The Highway Code covers this:
Junctions controlled by traffic lights:
You MUST stop behind the white 'Stop' line across your side of the road unless the light is green. If the amber light appears you may go on only if you have already crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to stop might cause an accident.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 33
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I agree with LHM, this infuriates the hell out of me.
There is a roundabout near me with 5 exits (Ruxley Corner,for those in N Kent).
I arrive from Bexley on the Dual carriageway intending to take exit 3 for either the M20 or Orpington. So I sit in the right hand lane indicating right. Once past Exit 2 I indicate Left and turn into exit 3.
Person in left hand lane at exit 1 should be going left for Swanley or straight on, but no, he, or she, tries to go all the way round to take exit 4 for Sidcup.
So while am trying to turn into Exit 3, he, or she, is coming up my nearside and blocking the exit.
If there is an accident, who is to blame in these circumstances?
And no, they never, ever, signal a right turn.
Roadcraft, the Police driving manual specifies that the left lane is for a left turn or straight on, the right lane is for straight on or a right turn, unless road marking or signs dictate otherwise.
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Do they indicate? I would suppose they would indicate right all the way round until signalling left. If they did not indicate, this could be a reason for being pulled?
We have a similar thing in Sheffield. A dual carrigeway is split in two by a roundabout, with 2 lanes on the roundabout. If you come up the minor road to joint the d/c, there are two lanes. One to turn left onto d/c and one to go straight on or right.
What people do to avoid queue of turning left vehicles [it's quite busy usually] is nip up the right hand lane and turn left.
Normally safe [myself having nipped past an uncertain learner], but if the car to your left decides to go straight on, it could get, erm, interesting. Do you HAVE to follow the road markings?
Kev
P.S. Does anyone live in Colchester? Surely THE worst place to drive through?
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surely for a successful prosecution he must have had either to ignore signs prohibiting something, or signs/markings giving a positive instruction. Or genuinely driven without DC&A.
There must be more to this than meets the eye at present. >>
I have gone back to my contact to refresh my memory on this incident. Apparently, it happened more than 5 years ago. The off-duty policeman had observed this driver doing this "queue-jump" exercise on previous occasions. Having got him by chance as he was in the right position to pull him over this time, and especially with the witnesses willing to make statements, the driver was charged initially with offence DD30. The driver's specialist solicitor had a word with the DPP prior to the case coming to court and the charges were reduced to CD30, or CD20 and/or CD10. In court, on the advice of his solicitor, the driver pleased guilty to either CD20 or CD10, and the other charges were dropped.
DD30 - recless driving
CD10 - driving without due care & attention
CD20 - driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.
CD30 - combined CD10 & CD20
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PS - I am told that one of the Magistrates commended the off-duty policeman - she said she drove past that roundabout and had witnessed these antics at times and had always hoped that the Police would take a serious enough view of this behaviour to bring charges.
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"off-duty"!
These nice people must love their "work".
Tomo.
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The police are never "off duty". A mate of mine is a copper and he is always looking for transgressors. He even had a duty solicitor pulled by the traffic police for suspected drink driving after he / she had represented one of my friend's "customers"
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l heard that its illegal to go past your original entrance on a roundabout. You must leave and find some other way to reapproach if you have missed your exit.
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I am not sure if you are right, but if you are, this would have to be a candidate for the most ridiculous law ever.
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\"l heard that its illegal to go past your original entrance on a roundabout.\"
Pardon?
More pub talk methinks.
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Okay Tomo,
Let's all behave like this and spend twice as long on a roundabout keeping others waiting...
Oh look, the queues are getting longer everywhere.
Oooh .. they're all spoiling my enjoyment of driving.
I thought you were against too many restrictions being put on driving enjoyment ... ?
These folk ARE putting on restrictions. That everyone waits whilst they hog the roundabout.
Do you not understand this?
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I think M.B.'s case shows that a repeatedly-observed transgressor is much more likely to be charged than someone doing a 'one-off'.
It would then be much harder to plead "well, being unfamiliar with this road, I'd got trapped in the RH lane and - not wanting to cut people up - selflessly proceeded right round the roundabout to correct my mistake (m'Lud!)".
Sadly, it's just one of the many irritations encountered during our daily drive - but it is tough to resist the 'if you can't beat them, join them' mentality........ :-(
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Could well be a victim of 3rd party perception.
www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs/3rdparty.htm
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LHM's message is a little ambiguous, in that it could mean the driver in the RH lane doing a 360 degree circuit of the roundabout, or carrying straight on and moving across into the LH lane at the exit.
In the latter case, let's be brutally honest about this. Usually the driver in the RH lane is pulling across into a non-existent gap, or he's pulling into a gap that's been left for a safe braking distance. In both cases he's relying on/forcing the occupants of the LH lane to brake to make room for him.
The result is that no-one is going to leave a gap, for fear that someone's going to pull into it. Result:- more rear-end shunts, more road-rage.
Why do people have to do this? You wouldn't do it in the queue in Tesco's, someone would give you a slap. Why do people abandon common courtesy when they get behind a wheel?
Yes, I've done it, but my passenger was dying at the time.
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From what LHM describes it appears that there is an offence of driving without reasonable considereration for
other persons using the road.As to a conviction, Lord Widgery in Walker v Tolhurst 1976 said it is the
particular circumstances of the particular case that have to be examined. The people primarily concerned to make
the decision are the Justices who know the District - hence the JP convicting as in the thread above.
Further, from what LHM outlines if as prevelant as mentioned, a considerable accident record should have built up
which should have been picked up by Police and Local Authority leading to a need for engineering to stop these actions.
Utter rubbish about an offence of going round a roundabout and not coming off - unless you wish to spend the day going round
and round. My first encounter with one of the large roundabouts in London. Got on and found myself in the inside and took me
several circuits to get off.
DVD.
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Utter rubbish about an offence of going round a roundabout and not coming off - unless you wish to spend the day going round
Hmmm, reminds me of my younger hooligan days. Going down the South coast with "the lads" (three cars in convoy) I decided to show off my overtaking skills by blasting past both parties plus at least 8 other cars on a long straight piece of road. several miles later I approached a roundabout neither I, or my passengers having a clue which exit to take. So I proceeded to go around and around it waiting for friends in the other 2 cars I had previously overtaken to catch up and show me the way. For some strange reason I got some very strange looks from those 8 other cars I had also previously overtaken as they approached the roundabout to see a 2 tone Black/Gold coloured Astra going round and round in circles that moments earlier had zoomed past them like a bat out of hell. I didn't even have my baseball cap on to hide my embarrassment.
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The whole thing of roundabouts seems to be a problem. As I understand it accidents at roundabouts are commonplace, esp. rear end shunts. Quite often a road joining a 2 lane roundabout has 3 lanes entering, with the left marked left turn only. Many people do not respect the markings which leads to trouble as 3 into 2 don't go. I think this is one example where road engineering should take into account what people might do rather than what they should do.
Also I notice quite a few roads leading off a roundabout have 2 lanes for 100m and then one lane. The signs indicate "Use both lanes" and then "Merge in turn". Lane 1 is often full and lane 2 empty. Use lane 2 and people in lane 1 can get quite shirty. (Odd really, why anyone should get shirty but there you go.)
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I think the main trouble is that roundabouts are a compromise. They keep traffic flowing where a number of roads meet and traffic levels are low. However, during busy periods they are more of a hinderance than a help. Junctions with lights are better when there is a lot of traffic flow or limited space, but at quite times they can seriously hinder traffic flow. The alternative would be a spaghetti-junction like arrangement with multiple fly-overs and duck unders for all possible combination of routes.
Personally, I find roundabouts worrying as no matter how careful you are to follow the road markings and common sense there is always someone who will have their own interpretation or simply will take no notice and do what they like.
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