This does seem a little too good to be true so I thought I'd run this by you guys.
To keep a long story short, I rang the dealership I had trouble with after the dealer that gave me short shift never called back yesterday as promised. I spoke to the showroom manager and he put me in touch with a more friendly salesman who wants 'to do a deal', they've pretty much exhonorated themselves and even apologised. All square then.
They're doing a number of Rover 75 2.0CDT at a high spec (Connoisseur) for £16K, they're all pre-registered and only have delivery miles. They're all 52 reg with a couple of options on like a CD changer or a diesel pre-heater taking the new retail price to £21K unregistered. So that's 5K or 25% off, pretty much the first year's depreciation. All have the comprehensive three year, 60,000 warranty.
I've done my sums and figured that after 4 years and 40,000 miles, it should be worth about £12K. They are pretty rare and sought after, there's not many about without interstellar mileage. I've never bought pre-reg so I'm wondering what the angle is for them? It looks like a bargain to me, I'll lose only 4K in four years of motoring?
Is my assumption right to start with? And is there a catch?
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Seems like a good deal to me and I guess the longer you keep the car the less it matters that they were pre-registered.
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They're nice cars but never worth £21K in the first place. With all the attachments I reckon the right value is about £16K. Oh look, that's what they're asking for them, afterall they're only Rover 600's in a remodelled shell.
And I don't think the residuals value will be £12K after 4 years motoring, more like half that.
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"they're only Rover 600's in a remodelled shell"
It's an all new car from the ground up, chassis and floorpan.
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I thought it is essentially a front wheel drive 5-series floorplan/chassis.
Am I wrong?
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"rover 600 in a remodlled shell"?
did he miss the BMW story?
When looking at the value of a new car, you have to discount any value on nearly all the options and extras. You wont get your money back on those, extras only help sell a car not add value
So work from the price of the car without the options. Then take off any discount you could negotiate anyway. Then you have the true value of the car. Then consider it is in effect second hand (has an owner on the V5).
Also I think your 12k after 4 years is a bit high bearing in mind it will be a two owner car, 4 years down the line with 4 more years worth of choice washing around the retail channel with what is by then a car design that will be getting on for 8 years old. Plus there may be a facelift in the meantime depressing the value of the original cars
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"they're only Rover 600's in a remodelled shell" It's an all new car from the ground up, chassis and floorpan.
Yeah, I know, but it still drives like an old 600!
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>> "they're only Rover 600's in a remodelled shell" >> >> It's an all new car from the ground up, chassis and >> floorpan. >> Yeah, I know, but it still drives like an old 600!
The 600 must have been better than we thought, then.
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>> >> \"they\'re only Rover 600\'s in a remodelled shell\" >> >> >> >> It\'s an all new car from the ground up, chassis >> >> and floorpan. >> >> Yeah, I know, but it still drives like an old 600! >> The 600 must have been better than we thought, then.
They weren\'t bad at all. I ran a 618i from new for 3 years.
Quite comfortable and an excellent long distance cruiser.
I did test drive a new 75 when the 600 was due for change and I couldn\'t feel that much difference in drive and performance considering the large price increase.
I didn\'t buy the 75, opting for the new 2.2 SRi Vectra Estate instead. More car and performance for the money.
Your opinions may differ but I\'m entitled to mine.
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I think your residual value is very optimistic.
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Thanks, I think you might be right with the residuals, the CDT tends to have the strongest out of the lot and I am perhaps over a fair bit. Still say at 9k after four years then that 7K over 4 years which isn't too bad. As for keeping it, I'll be happy to put 80,000 on it myself (which would take about 7 years) so I do have that choice that I perhaps wouldn't have with a 3-yo one.
I'm aware that the right options will make it more sellable in the future and each car comes with a different combination. I think I'll stick to the obvious ones.
It's a common misconception with the chassis, it was tried initially to build the 75 on the 5-series platform but it was too expensive to adapt it so they built and entirely new platform. There's a great article on how they designed and built it. Go to the Rover 75 section under 'Cars'
austinrover.mg-rover.org/
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3500S - glad to know you took my advice and spoke to Owner/Principal/Manager.
As to residual values, who knows whether the car will be rare or even as desirable or sought after in 4 years time. Buy it if you like it and if in your view it is bargain. Assume the residual value to be zero when making your choice. At £16k, assume your flat rate simple capital cost to be £4k per year (for 10 miles/year that is 40p a mile). Add to that running costs, and decide whether in your mind the car is attractive to YOU. That way you cannnot go wrong.
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Lovely car, but two points.
Like everyone else, I'd be amazed if it was worth £12k after four years. I reckon somewhere between £5-7k is much more likely.
Secondly, has it got the 130ps 'chipped' engine? If not, this can be retro-fitted and is well worth having. Is retaine dvalue is likely to be at the lower end of the scale if you stick with the standard 115ps, which is slightly underpowered.
The bit about this being a rebodied 600 is a hoot, BTW. As I understand it, it's an original platform with the Bee Em Z-axle at the back.
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The chip install is going to be a bargaining point as I want it in, the dealers didn't dismiss it out of hand.
All the advice was useful to dealing with the showroom, a phone call seemed like the most common-sense approach.
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A late 620 GSi is going for about £6k, so I would say that is the absolute bottom line for the value of this car in four years' time.
On the other hand, buying a top of the line car like this virtually brand new, £2.5k a year is not much depreciation and, as you say, you have the option for keeping it for about three years beyond that before anything is likely to go wrong.
If you like the toys and the ambiance (and I suspect you do, given your other cars) then this looks like a very good deal. Personally I'd be inclined to seek out a similar Mondeo Ghia for a couple of grand less, but that's strictly a personal choice!
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Don't mean to be rude but I can't imagine that the Rover 75 2.0CDT will be worth "about £12K" after 4 years and 40,000 miles. Are you certain? If it adds up then go for it.
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You're not being rude, I think 12K is over optimistic, I'd still be happy with 9K at four years old. DavidHM makes a good point with the 600 series, they're still up at 7K despite being obsolete. It wouldn't be unrealistic to expect a little more than that at a similar age.
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Backroomers will know that I\'m not generally keen on PCP\'s, but a couple of years ago, the last time the pink fluffy dice hit the fan for Rover, two clients bought new 75\'s with 25% discount. Rover Finance were prepared to do them with a guaranteed future value of 50% list price at 3 years 36,000 miles. It worked out a very cheap PCP.
Of course the cars will be going back because they\'re not making anywhere near that sort of money. But it might be worth asking if they will do a similar deal for these cars!
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Paul beat me to it!
Check PCP projections.
At least the diesel should fair better than petrol, or even LPG, the way our Government are looking at things, just now.
A 50% residual would be very,very generous, I would think.
VB
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The tins.co.uk buyback price for this car, from new, at 3.5 years (the longest they do on PCP) and 35k is £6600-odd. Probably that means they'd expect the car to fetch £7500 in a private sale by then, which seems a bit optimistic to me, but £6000 does seem like a sensible sort of bottom line figure, although you should do better.
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What Car give a value of about £7800 at 4 years old. Your true depreciation cost is therefore more like 2K per year.
Cheers
Baz
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Thanks for all the advice guys, it's appreciated. I need to get the calculator out but I think faced with a choice, I'd prefer keeping a nearly new car for five years and beyond than a 3yo up to the age of 8yo. The three year warranty is a big plus as well as almost 0 miles. But I know I'm dreading that first stone chip feeling.
On talking to 3500S Snr, he recommended the chip upgrade and looking at keeping it for five years plus to make it pay once the finance part of it has been paid off. I've no plans to get shot after two or three years, I'm kind of used to running cars much older so I think this one will be no exception. The diesel engine makes me more confident of being able to do that. A friend said that it's the kind of car that would make an ageless plate a good idea as it's unlikely to change drastically over the years, not sure on that myself.
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3500S,
75 diesel looks a very nice car that would be on my wish list if ever spending that much (but then we liked our many 3500/3500S's as well).
Everyone else is right you should target a 4yr value of £6-£7K and regard any more as a bonus.
Also that running this vehicle will probably cost twice as much over 4yrs as having a couple of carefully bought used vehicles in the £4K-£5K range.
Depreciation is *the* cost of motoring.
MM
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I think I'd rather have a 3yr old for 5 yrs than a new for 5 yrs. The depreciation hit will be much less and you can service it where you like (or DIY) as the manufacturer's warranty will have expired along with the requirement for mega-expensive dealer rates.
With some well known exceptions, any modern car (especially Jap) should run reliably for 8 years if you service it well.
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I used a residuals and motoring costs guide against the other cars I was looking at and the 75 Connoisseur CDT comes out quite well with a reasonable 65p/mile over 5 years.
So it's off to the garage tomorrow see what deal I can do.
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Thanks for all your advice, this and the disaster at the showroom the previous week.
Met the salesman for an appointment, test drove a power upgraded diesel 75 and then went out in the un-upgraded one, big difference. I simply had to have the chip. Very smooth car, no typical diesel noise and very, very well insulated, couldn't hear anything from the outside and really couldn't tell it was a diesel, the pickup was so smooth and the pulling power of the upgraded car was really good, apparently some 300Nm of torque was available. The slip to motorway progress was really impressive, it sat at 70 at 3000rpm and you could whisper to each other in the car and be heard.
The car sold itself to be honest.
Got some movement on the price so opted to spend it on the engine chip upgrade and a Cd Changer in the boot and got the road tax sorted. The salesman threw in a discount card as well by means of an apology for last week so I'll get 10% of all parts and labour and half price Mot's.
Pick it up in two weeks with 30 miles on the clock.
On the way out after shaking on the deal with the salesman and the showroom manager who'd come over to verbally apologise for last week I threw a glance at the salesman that gave me grief with a 'Oh dear, you lost your commission' look.
That was perhaps the best bit.
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My collegue and myself both bought pre registered, the downside remains when you have had the car for 3 years youv'e been out of warranty for 6 months, and you have a 3 1/2 year old car. The dealer I bought mine from said after the sale that all cars loose 17% in the 1st 6 months, and although I had parted with £17000 for a £21000 car he would only give me £11500 PX. I tried this out at another dealer/manufacturer saying i bought my car on impulse 6 months ago and didn't particularily like it so wanted to change, guess what £11000.
I'm sorry you can't win!
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