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Are we talking about what the cars computer says or actual miles divided by liters used to refill? is the cars in dash figure correct?, my wifes Focus tdci does 46ish according to the car when she drives (mostly local trips) and 43 when I drive. I suspect a VW/Audi tdi would be nearer 50 (as my old Audi 80 estate 90bhp did this and was a heavier car). Cant beat the ford handling though.
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ACTUAL miles and my maths.....
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Thanks guys - some interesting responses. I drive a Focu TDDI at the moment which in 55K miles as always delivered 48-50 mpg - mainly motorway driving - and my expectation was (given the official figures) to get similar figures from a Focus TDCI and slightly worse from a Mondeo.
Your answers suggest a lack of consistancy from car to car. Anyone know when the new PSA / Ford engines will start to appear - the press releases are rather vague.
Thanks
Simon
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I don't know who carries out the official tests on fuel consumption- is it independent and on a number of vehicles? As you say there is evidence of much inconsistency here. Also another common view on this and the other TDCi threads is one of dissapointment- that a major influence in choosing the car and podding out the extra £500 for the TDCi was the published test figures, which the odd one or two seem to achieve and the rest of us cannot get anywhere near even if we put a padlock on the throttle pedal.
I am starting to wonder if there is a trade descriptions act issue here.
Having experienced several TDCis I am certainly in a position to confirm the inconsistency in the results- of five cars one definately did meet my expectations, one was near to it and the others have fallen well short. My last tankfull lasted 420 miles from absolutely brim full- the last litre taking several minutes to fill- and I drove as carefully as I could. Never accelerating hard, never exceeding speed limits, mostly running at 1500- 2000 rpm. The journeys were mostly about 20 miles and one of 140 miles. This worked out at 38mpg. This car has now covered 4000 miles so may still be a little tight- but I think thats grasping at straws!.
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Kurnal
That's awful mpg!! Driving as you describe (which I don't, though I'm no boy racer) I reckon I'd get 55-58mpg from my Audi A4 TDi 115, as I get 52mpg on a regular basis. 600-700 miles per tank.
I think you need to pursue your case with Ford. Good luck.
Pat
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To be fair, most people with VAG diesels seem to get better MPG than I do from my Focus TDCI, although I've left various VW TDi's dead at the lights on more than one occation! Not that that matters of course...
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That was a fairly bad attempt to spell occasion!
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Kurnal,
I've got to fill up tonight and next week will be what sounds like a similar set of journeys. I'll try the same technique and report back. Don't hold your breath for any outstanding economy figures though. :-(
ciao,
FiF
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We have a couple of VAG PDis on the fleet (Golfs), some 130bhp and some 150bhp. They turn in 36-38mpg and whenever I have to drive one I a struck by how noisy and gutless they are.
As I have said elesewhere in the Forum the new A4 with the 1.9 TDi engine is a good car ruined.
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Although the Focus TDCi gives good consumption when lightly loaded, it is very poor, relatively, when laden. When towing, only 24 mpg is acheived, which is very poor considering I get 22 mpg towing with an Astra 1.8 petrol automatic.
I would be interested in finding out if this poor consumption, under load, applies to all the "modern" high power diesels. If so, I won't change to diesel for my next car.
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I am changing away from diesel at the earliest opportunity
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Update to Kurnal.
Three tank fulls later, based on "brim" to "brim"
If you truly brim the tank you lose fuel, take a close look.
Tank 1 mostly short trips, couple x 100m driving fairly economically but keeping up with the flow, 51 mpg
Tank 2 mixture longish runs but giving moderate welly 47.
Tank 3 long run welly in most of the way 44
Not good not bad. Definitely a hint of loosening up though re mpg
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Not good not bad!!!!! I'd be delighted. I wish I could get near those figures. I did manage 43 mpg on the last tankful but that was on long runs doing about 450miles over two days.
Theres more evidence though that my car is sick- despite the software update the tip in tip out misfire has come back with avengeance - and tonight after a half hour stop I restarted the car and it set off in a series of kangaroo jumps, then the engine started knocking like a good un, very little power and the glowplug light started flashing. I pulled over as quick as I could and switched off, then it restarted normally. Dreading the fuel contamination problem again- I just can't face going through that lot of hassle again. Just 5000 on the clock by the way.
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I presume you've taken these issues up with Ford again?
What have they had to say? Are they being helpful? Sounds like to me you've got grounds for making a big fuss about this - I realise that this has been ongoing, reading your posts on this and other sites.
I'm personally interested because I'm about to pick up a new one of these cars, so I'm desperately hoping its a goodun since, as you say, some you've owned are great and others not!
Wish me luck...
Splodgeface
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Going to ring them on Monday. I don't have a problem with the guys at the main dealership I use- They are always friendly and sympathetic- We are on first name terms and they will always drop everything they are doing to look at my car for me. But they dont seem to have any ideas and there doesn't seem to be any specialist backup they can call on. They are a little tight lipped when it comes to discussing other peoples experience- but main dealers are always like that. Thank goodness for honest john!
My advice is when you go to collect your car allow an extra hour and arrange for a company rep to go for a test drive with you- 20 miles should do. Drive it gently but normally and if it shows any sign if the tip in tip out misfire - mine started this with only 8 miles on the clock- reject it. Dont even think about agreeing to adjustment or repair- just tell them its defective and dont accept it. Ever.
I know this will give you a load of hassle but believe me it will be nothing like the hassle of trying to get the car fixed.
I hope you get a good one- they can be a super car. But no fords for me ever again.
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Thanks for that;
In fact I picked the car up today from Trade Sales and I didn't think they would appreciate me asking for a trial before accepting it. I've just driven the 100 miles back and have to say that, after my previous car, its hard to offer anything other than praise - I could barely hear the engine after it had warmed up leave alone listen for the tip-in-tip-out problem. Quite frankly an outstanding drive. So its so far so good.
Splodgeface
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Great stuff and pleased to hear you have a good un!
The reason I keep faith with mine is that I know that when they are right they are a super car.
Let us know how the fuel economy works out. Which model is it and have you bought it or is it a company car?
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Ghia. Private purchase - v rash, I know but couldn't see many 2nd hand ones around and those that were were not too dissimilar in price to this one (over 5K off list price); plus, having read about problems with this engine, I didn't want to get someone else's cast-off!
I'll be keeping a close eye on economy. The trip computer was telling me something daft about 23mpg going round the M25 at 70 but the "miles left in tank" bit had only reduced by 30 odd miles after a 100 mile trip - I haven't worked the controls out yet! In any case, I'll still be using the tried and tested brimming, then refilling and calculating myself. It'll be interesting to see if the trip computer tells the truth!
I'll keep you informed.
splodgeface
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forgot to add - estate!
splodgeface
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Forgot to add something.
Is this a Ford TDCi effect or High performance diesels in general?
Recently had one of the new funny shape Meganes on hire, complete with the TDCi and 6 speed box.
Couple of German autobahn sessions later, incl stretches at 140-160 kph, plus some pottering at 90-100 kph.......
just done the expenses and it worked out at 53 mpg.
Hated the steering on the Megane, reckon it wouldn't be too long before I'd have planted it into the trees on a fast bend.
Also its difficult to compare car with car / driver with driver, but on the occasions I've borrowed a petrol Mondeo 3 the fuel consumption on anything other than a long run makes me glad I picked a diesel, which is contrary to what someone else posted above I know but there you are.
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I have a pre TDCi 2.0 litre durateorq Mondeo I purchased from new in May 2001. Since then I have monitored every drop of diesel put into the car and the milage it has returned. This cover local shot distances and once per month a 600 mile round trip. The average MPG for the first six month was 49.5 and since then (now at 40K miles) it has dropped to 48 MPG. I think the ecconomy and performance was great, before it developed an engine cutting out intermittent problem that is still not cured (see Mondeo starting problems on this site). I am not a gentle driver on the accelerator, ask my wife, so I think the ecconomy figure is great.
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I had the latest update ecu software installed two weeks ago- this is now version 24. The misfire is much better- still does it on most journeys but nowhere near as much as before. Seems to occur most at 1500 rpm- and I rarely drive with the revs that low, occasionally appears at 2000rpm. Fuel consumption is also better- 43mpg on the last two tankfulls. So we are getting there!
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Good to hear, Kurnal, hope things carry on improving!
Splodgeface
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Kurnal
The fuel tests are carried out by the OEMs themselves to legislatively prescribed test regimes. All legislative requirements are on a self certification basis. The VCA, however, will witness a certain proportion of testing (often with little notice) to ensure testing is above board.
Having had a hired Focus TDCi for 4 weeks for company business about 2 months ago, along with all the other petrol Foci I've had for odd days I really cannot understand what everyone is raving about. I've just taken a new job this week, with which I've been provided a new Focus 1.8 Zetec. I have no choice of car - so I've elected to sign up to use it for company business only and hence pay no tax and keep my own car.
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Just to add some details for comparison:
I have a 2003 Mondeo 2.0 GHIA Petrol 145bhp.
It's now done just less than 4000 miles and I never turn the a/c off (automatic through climate control).
Just driving backwards and forwards to work (30 mile round trip) gives 36-37mpg. (Figures from dashboard computer)
Last week did 320 mile round trip. Got 43.5mpg on the way there (solid 70mph on the cruise control) and 40.5mpg doing about 80mph on the way back.
Was well chuffed with that, and I'm quite glad I didn't bother with the TDCi, and chose toys instead. (Petrol is £1000 cheaper than TDCi).
cheers
Anthony
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I bought my Mondeo Ghia X TDCi a month ago and I was told that mpg would be low until the car had run in (after about 1000 miles). How long should it take to return decent economy? At the moment I guess it averages 40mpg at best.
It also gives a noticeable turbo whine under load at mid -high road speeds (i.e. >50mph). Is this normal ?
Thanks
Keith
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Hi Keith
I have never noticed any turbo or other whine on any of the tdcis I have driven- better get it checked out.
My experience is that the cars vary widely in the mpg they deliver- after several software updates and 7000 miles mine has now improved from 38 mpg to 43 mpg average ( brim to brim) but still nowhere near what some other people achieve- and I had one for a month that gave me 49 mpg.
Since my last post the misfire came back so I took it in yesterday for the fuel filter recall and a software upgrade. Its running better than ever so far- but I have learnt that its much too early to celebrate.
When was yours built?
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Mine was registered as 2003 but I'm not sure when it was built. It was an import via Trade Sales from Antwerp.
Does this mean I have to ask for a software upgrade on the basis of poor economy? As for performance its okay but not as fast as the VW Passat PD130 estates that my company use, although its not far off. I guess this might improve a bit with age.
Thanks
Keith
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Keith
I really dont know about the effect of a software update as a means of improving economy. I keep going back to the dealer because of misfires that occur - especially between 1500-2000 rpm on partial throttle openings. The fuel economy seems to improve alongside any improvements in the misfire- ie I thought the fuel consumption was excessive because the car was not running properly.
Any ford dealer will be able to tell you the build date from their computer system. The software version is available by plugging in the diagnostic kit. It would be worth taking it in and asking. I believe the latest version is 24B. You do need a helpful and sympathetic dealer- I have found Julian at the dealers in Derby extremely helpful, interested and sympathetic, even in the lack of any real support from the manufacturer.
Be careful where you take it- one high profile dealer in the South west that I had to use due to a breakdown caused much more harm than good, and physically damaged the castings causing major oil leaks and a whole series of further breakdowns.
I tried the passat and the peugeot 406 and in my opinion they were both smoother in their delivery of power and more refined, more akin to a petrol. But I thought they lacked the mid range shove and general exhuberance of the coarser, but more fun mondeo. In hindsight though after all the problems, I wish I'd gone for the passat.
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I drive a Passat TDI estate averaging about 20000 miles p.a.
My previous car was a Mondeo 2.5 estate which was very rewarding to drive and averaged about 31mpg which isn't bad considering.
The Passat's engine and drive train is hard to fault, the gearing in particular suits the car perfectly. I average 44-45 mpg, mostly motorway but recently got 50mpg getting from Holyhead to London (through Snowdonia).
The Passat doesn't handle as well as the Mondeo, even with factory lowered suspension, the Ford engine characteristics are different, I prefer the VW unit, however this may be down to lower gearing.
Tyre pressure seems to make a big difference on the VW, it's a contract lease so I get Dunlop's which are hard compound giving less grip but longer mileage (allegedly!)
I've ended up comprimising between full load pressures and
light load pressures to give better economy but reasonable grip in the wet.
Ford service quality does vary immensely, the best servicing I
got for the Mondeo was an independent - your dealer should refer
to Ford UK for persistent problems in any case?
Best of luck
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Mine is now at 1500 miles and I haven't really noticed any big improvement in mpg. My last tank went for 42.3 and that's using the brimming method and included 2 longish return motorway trips at 70-85mph and several cross country commutes with a fair amount of queuing and stops at T junctions (the fuel computer said 44.8 - pack of lies...) I can't see at the moment how anyone can get near the quoted 47.9 and I'm left querying the Maths of people who claim 50+. Surely only possible if you drive at a constant 56mph and don't include the initial acceleration! Unless I accelerate away fom junctions at snail pace and don't utilise any of the power the car offers, then it looks like mpg is not going to be brilliant. However, I'm not overly concerned since 42.3 still knocks the pants off any petrol equivalent I know of and the car is such a great drive. As I said before, I'm willing to trade a few bhp for mpg. I'm still going over 500 miles between fills and that's reasonable.
What bothers me more that I've been following HJ's running in advice on diesels and I never like revving them that high - I'm supposed to be reaching 3500 regularly at the moment and I'm dreading the time when I have to push it up to 4000 (according to his advice at 2K miles). As for 4500 rpm, well, I just don't know!!! I've driven diesels for a decade now and I've never enjoyed them straining at high revs. I'd rather leave that to the garage (at service/MOT time) when I'm not listening!!!
Splodgeface
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Hi Keith,
I have a March 02 Ghia X TDCi The car has now done 30K miles approx and has averaged I calculate 50.4 MPG of all sorts of driving in that time.
It was circa 54MPG until the cold weather but it then dropped off but now seems to be improving again.
No noticeable turbo whine in mine but wind noise around the B pillar is annoying.
Mutley.
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Nice to see not much changes! There are some good 'uns, and some not-so-good 'uns.
My V-reg tdd1 did 37-38 (suburban) to about 45 (M'way), which was much the same as most users I spoke to. Only a few spoke of consumption anywhere near 50mpg.
Possibly a one-off, but suburban mpg has recently improved, at the last check to nearly 40, the only difference I can think of is fitting Goodyear NCTs at the front (previously Pirelli, Michelin & Contis made no measurable difference).
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Hi,
Sorry its taken so long to get back to this thread.
Basically I took my Mondeo back to the main dealer who say they checked it for fuel leaks etc and then installed the latest engine management software. They then told me to run it to check the economy. After four or so tankfuls with mixed everyday driving the trip computer and a calculation based on amount of fuel etc both agree that the economy is 38mpg. The only occasion I managed to get the trip computer to report 48mpg was on a straight flat road running at about a constant 60mph, but that was only while those condition lasted and it soon reverted to 38mpg.
I'm a bit annoyed about this as I based my purchase of this car on Ford's fuel economy figures and probably would have opted for the VW had I have known about this variability in economy.
Regards
keith
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I agree, Keith, since I too find the mpg a disappointment and I have always comfortably beaten manufacturer mpg claims in the past driving diesels for over 10 years. I can't get near the 47.9 claim even when driving at 56 for miles. That to me says that there is something wrong, especially since there ARE cars out there whose owners claim to get 50+ which I thought/hoped would be possible. My last tank went for 43.9 (trip computer claimed 47.1) which is the best yet and included a fair amount of A road driving, commuting (stop start & country lanes/junctions) but some (about 15 miles out of 500) reckless speeding at ahem 90+. My trip computer obviously tells a pack of inflated lies, don't know about yours! I can live with mpg of this nature but it bugs me that Ford can get away with this. I chose Ford over Mazda (which claims modest 44ish figures), amongst other things, because of their claimed better mpg.
Splodgeface
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The only comment I will add to this thread is a recent longish trip involved some long runs at legal limit.
Mileage computer gave average speed at 69 mph which must have been about right. The displayed mpg was 45.1, brim to brim was 44.7, well within expreimental error methinks.
However I do agree with splodge that this is the first car for yonks where I cannot beat the published figs.
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Well the latest news is the main dealer here in Salisbury had the car yesterday and checked it over using diagnostics gear and doing an emissions test and they could not fault it. They suggested it might be the way I drive as to their knowledge no one has ever criticised the mpg of this car. I referred them back to this website but they weren't interested. Eventually they promised to contact Ford technical support to see if they knew the reason. I'll wait with baited breath...
Regards
keith
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As a comparison, my 2003 petrol Passat 2.0 (130) returned 44.8mpg over a 220 mile Friday afternoon trip up the M40/M6. And I did more than just amble along (it also included the Friday crawl up the A40 out of London). Average speed for the journey was 58mph.
Even round city centre London it returns over 32mpg. Over it's 6,500 miles it has averaged 38mpg (most of which has been done at speeds normally reserved for die Autobahn or autostrada).
These figures are off the trip computer but cross checking against the fuel receipts reveals it to be over 98% accurate.
Astounds me as my previous 1.4 Civic only ever returned 34-36 mpg at the same 80-90 cruise - suppose that proves the point of not having to drop to third to overtake with any gusto.
Take into account that I paid GBP11,500 for it (one of the silly VW discount cars) and still persuaded them to register it in 2003 (as opposed to before year end 2002) and I cannot really see how diseasel could possibly make sense for 15K a year spent mostly hoofing it around the country rather than urban travel.
Seeing the panning that VW seem to get on here (and I appreciate it is still young enough that niggles and rattles unreasonable in a 'new' car could start to irritate any day now), I thought it only fair to stick up for our teutonic brethren. Vorsprung durch nicking Audi's engine, as they might [not] say in Wolfsburg.
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They suggested it might be the way I drive as to their knowledge no one has ever criticised the mpg of this car.
Simple solution is to get them to drive you round in the car for an hour to show you how its possible to drive the thing and achieve their fabled mpg claims. I don't reckon mine would achieve 47.9 even if I drove at a constant 56 all day.
Splodgeface
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