F1 Tyres | General discussion ( non motoring ) | Back Room Forum

Sun 29 Jul 2012 23:41

F1 Tyres - Ben 10

I know the compound of the tyres used can be very soft.

But compared to the past, the tracks are now littered with rubber debris and the tyres are pitted with deep craters at the end of the race.

The whole point about the tyres on these cars is to grip the track as good as possible.

Considering the amount of rubber gouged out of the flat surface of these new compounds, does this not ruin the amount of rubber in contact with the track surface and hence could produce less grip.

If so, are these new tyres not as good as tyres used in the 70s or 80s for their integrity?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 30 Jul 2012 21:54

F1 Tyres - unthrottled

Not really. The amount of available grip in a tyre is essentially independant of the contact area. As the contact area is reduced, the pressure between the tyre and the road increases commensurately. The flexibility of the tyre is probably more important because it will allow the tyre surface to mould to the surface of the track.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 1 Aug 2012 00:39

F1 Tyres - Ben 10

If that's the case why have slicks. I thought the point of them was to have as much rubber in contact with a dry track. If you are right, then you might as well drive with treaded tyres and not bother with slicks which would be good in the wet and dry. Would stop the need to change tyres for differing conditions.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 2 Aug 2012 21:31

F1 Tyres - focussed

Not really. The amount of available grip in a tyre is essentially independant of the contact area. As the contact area is reduced, the pressure between the tyre and the road increases commensurately. The flexibility of the tyre is probably more important because it will allow the tyre surface to mould to the surface of the track.

Life is more complex than simple physics. The most obvious point is that F1 tyre rubber at it's designed working temperature is adhesive so if you double the area you double the amount of grip (adhesion) so wide tyres do have more grip than thin tyres.

In addition there is the "rack and pinion effect" with a soft tyre at it's working temperature-the tyre surface is so soft that the rubber deforms onto the minute peaks and troughs of the road surface, grabbing the road so to speak.

Otherwise Vettel, Weber, et al would all be circulating on 1950's era Morris Minor width tyres.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 5 Aug 2012 18:04

F1 Tyres - unthrottled

if you double the area you double the amount of grip (adhesion) so wide tyres do have more grip than thin tyres.

No you don't. Results in drag racing prove that 60 ft times (always traction limited) are only slightly sensitive to tyre width.

The force of the tyre against the surface is independant of the suface area but adhesion also depends on pressure -which is inversely proportional to contact area. The problem with the higher pressures is that the greater pressures lead to unacceptably high tyre wear. The higher aspect ratio also affects dynamic stability during cornering.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 6 Aug 2012 20:14

F1 Tyres - focussed

if you double the area you double the amount of grip (adhesion) so wide tyres do have more grip than thin tyres.

No you don't. Results in drag racing prove that 60 ft times (always traction limited) are only slightly sensitive to tyre width.

The force of the tyre against the surface is independant of the suface area but adhesion also depends on pressure -which is inversely proportional to contact area. The problem with the higher pressures is that the greater pressures lead to unacceptably high tyre wear. The higher aspect ratio also affects dynamic stability during cornering.

What you seem to be desperate to prove is that wide(er) tyres do not result in better grip on the road or track. It seems that just about every branch of motorsport disproves your theory. I do not recall when watching club racing, formulas 1, 2 or 3, drag racing in any form, saloon car racing, or just about any form of motorsport, where narrow or skinny tyres are de rigeur.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Tue 7 Aug 2012 00:17

F1 Tyres - bathtub tom

>> I do not recall when watching............. just about any form of motorsport, where narrow or skinny tyres are de rigeur.

Can sometimes be an advantage on trials.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 16 Nov 2012 15:38

F1 Tyres - galileo

if you double the area you double the amount of grip (adhesion) so wide tyres do have more grip than thin tyres.

No you don't. Results in drag racing prove that 60 ft times (always traction limited) are only slightly sensitive to tyre width.

What effect does tyre diameter have - obviously the contact patch shape will be alter, how (if at all) is traction affected?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 3 Aug 2012 10:01

F1 Tyres - TeeCee

Swings and roundabouts.

It's perfectly possible to make a slick tyre that's hard enough not to degrade at all over a race, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as sticky when warmed up.

Racing slicks are a juggling act between stickiness (soft compound that effectively glues itself, sacrificially, to the track) and longevity (harder compound that wears less).

At the moment, The Powers That Be want pit stops, but do not want refuelling. Thus the tyres are deliberately provided in compounds that are guaranteed to degrade to the point of being unusable in less than the race distance.

If you watch the in-car footage, you'll see that the serious degradation only occurs right at the end of a tyres' life. The reason that they all exhibit significant wear at the end of a race is that if you have not finished with your tyres "on the edge" your stop strategy has been wasteful.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Ask Honest John

Sell Your Car

Real MPG

Fuel Calculator