Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights!

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Fri 18 May 2012 18:09
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - Jake59

Hi

I purchased a Fiat Grande Punto about 3 months ago from a used car dealer and some issues have come up reguarding the car perfromance. Since I've had the car, the engine has always sounded fairly loud along with very noisy tappets, and if you start the car instantly without pausing while in ignition it does struggle to turn over.

As it my first diesel I just assumed this was normal, and have tried just using 'Redex Diesel' fuel System cleaner and filled my car up reguarly using 'Shell V-Power Diesel' in hope this would help. After about a month and a half i started to notice that when the car is in neutral you can feel the whole car vibrate slightly, and if the air con is on the vibrations increase more. At first I tryed not to think much off it, I thought I was being a bit fussy but after a month just to be safe i took it to my local MOT and Service centre, thinking it could possibly be a worn engine mount.

The garage said they had a good look around and everything mechanicaly looks ok and could not pin point the problem, but if they had a guess it could possably be the 'Fuel Injectors' as the engine seems to be working very hard and recommended i go to a Diesel Injector Specialist as they do not have the tooling and specialist equipment to diagnose and fix the problem.

Fortunate enough there is Diesel Fuel Injection Specialist down the road from my work. Had the diagnostic there, 3 out of the 4 injectors were knackered and good chance the 4th would soon follow.

Told the dealership I bought the car from as iv only had the vehicle for 3 months and done just over a 1000miles (car only has 54k on the clock) and they want me to drive my car from Chester to a Mot and service center in Burnley. Problem is, in no way I feel I should drive my car this distance with 3 damaged fuel injectors, causing more stress on the engine to be told exactly the same thing and prob a more expensive repair. And as iv gone to an injection specialist in the first place they are able to do a full overhaul of the injectors,test and refit them. I thought it was best to get the work done there as it was done within one day and most garages can not offer this service without sending them away. Oh and my car is my only source of transport. This has cost me £862...

Anyways the misfire and erratic engine had been rectified, but there is a slight vibration at 1000rpm, which the diesel injector specialist thinks could possible be an 'Engine Mount' or the 'Dual mass flywheel' (ouch!) which I dont mind having a 2nd opinion about as I feel comfortable now to drive my car all the way to the garage they want me to go and hope they can fault the problem. Which i will want fixing but there no way im paying for that aswell as the injectors

When i purchased the car there was a full mechanical report and seller ensured me that the car is very good condtion inside and out and im paying the correct price for this model. Personal i believe the car may have been damaged internaly before purchase and i do not see this car to be of satisfactory quality for it's age, mileage and the price I paid. I could understand at around 70-80k things like this may happen but not at 54k A

All i want is a full refund for all the work/if more work that has been done to fix the car Do you think im well in my rights for this? Hope to hear some of your advise!

Thanks

Jake

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Sun 20 May 2012 11:02
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - chester37

Hi Jake,

The good news is the sale of goods act says that if a problem or fault occurs within 6 months then it is deemed to be present at point of sale.

However if the faults manifested themselves within a 'short" period of time you can reject the goods and get a full refund. After that you can ask the dealer to make good the goods.

It appears you have already had repairs done and in effect rejected the dealers offer to look at the car it would be much more difficult, if not impossible to get anything.

I am happy to be correct by others....

chester

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Sun 20 May 2012 18:35
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - Jake59

Thanks for advice, do you mean it be much more difficult, if not impossible to get anything in regards to the repair being carried out? If so i can take that on the chin because i panicked and really needed my car so just aggred to fee hoping the dealership would understand that it was specialist advice and it is the best price around for that kind of repair.

There are other problems with the car that i have told the dealer and i am booked to the the recommended garage the dealership told me to get checked. If these problems are confirmed by the garage. Would i still be able to get a refund as it yet to be another problem or fault occurs within the 6 months then it is deemed to be present at point of sale?

Thanks

Jake

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Mon 21 May 2012 14:12
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - chester37
Hi Jake

I am not an expert but can draw on my own personal experiences so please do not take my word as final – it is my interpretation of the situation.

You will not be entitled to a refund for the car unless you reject the car within a “short period of time” In my case this was 4 weeks.

My dealer refused any help at all and would not even discuss the issues. However an amount was paid using a credit card so I used Section 75 of the consumer credit act to recover the full amount and keep the car – which was scrap value only !

Your dealer does appear to be talking to you and so discussions can proceed. If the garage find further faults with the car and it is within 6 months of the purchase then I would be looking for the dealer to either make good or at least make some attempt to work with you.. perhaps making a contribution to work needed. My problem really is that he could take issue with the other work that you have had carried out at another garage – especially if the fault are connected in any way – no matter how small. This I feel would give him wriggle room in the small claims court to say the vehicle has been worked on by another garage and therefore he cannot be responsible for any faults on the car now.

On Balance given that you have had the car a while, work has been carried out, the car was not rejected and the dealer is talking to you – then I would expect very little but take any offer of assistance to make good the faults. Perhaps offer to pay for the parts and he does the labour….or a free service !
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Mon 21 May 2012 22:18
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - Jake59

I see what your saying. and looked up the sales of goods act :) Don't think I goming back down without a fight as i paid a lot for that car!

I had a specialized opinion in a specific area of the car trade. The dealer solution to it is they wanted a 2nd opinion..from a non specialized. So in this cause i would have to drive around in a damaged car for over a week and try book my car to a service center well over 70miles away. The service center do not specialize in the area of work that needs fixing and can only diagnose the same fault ( which i know!) where they can only fix by sending the faulty part away...then sent back and refitted. The job would take 3-5 days in a garage

" Under the Sale of Goods Act, the retailer must either repair or replace the goods 'within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience"

Not only do i see this really unnecessary to drive the distance and for the period of time whilst the car is in this condtition. There is no way Im driving a car that is damaged and has the potential to cause even more damage to the engine itself and worse cause scenario not get me anywhere. Why should i drive a damaged car which they promised to me for it age and miles is in fantastic condition mechanically and visually

If they said right we will pick your car up and take it to our garage, but in the mean time here courtesy car then yes that more then fair. Even suggested a more local garage!

They could have not done this within a reasonable time as i very much need my car as it my only source of transportation. The significant inconvenience part...i could write a huge list! Mainly getting to my job as it is my only source of income and short notice absence would not only effect business production but i will not get paid..lose bonus..risk my job....my bosses are not very understanding haha :( But i am not taking this risk. I can also provide proof of how long it would take till i am able to go to the garage they wanted me to go to.

As you can tell this getting me all upset haha. Do you think it can be seen this way or not?

Thanks!

Jake

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Tue 22 May 2012 11:01
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - chester37
All used cars sold as retail must have a warranty. They are also covered by the Sales of Goods Act.

However you must contact the seller in the first place to either reject or repair the car.

You took the car elsewhere – this should not have been done without prior agreement from the seller – your first port of call should always be the seller. They have the obligation to deal with the faults and rectify them.

I do not imagine any dealer would willing or able to authorise work to be carried out at a third party garage when he has his own facilities… yes he could have offered to collect the car – did you ask him to do this?

“There is no way Im driving a car that is damaged” Do you have RAC/AA cover – if so they could have recovered the car for you at no cost.

“The dealer solution to it is they wanted a 2nd opinion..from a non specialized.” – this sounds reasonable – they have no way of knowing what is wrong apart from your local garages report… was this in writing and provided to the seller?

The service center do not specialize in the area of work that needs fixing and can only diagnose” – that’s what a second opinion does..

" Under the Sale of Goods Act, the retailer must either repair or replace the goods 'within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience" – correct but you did not allow them to do this …

They could have not done this within a reasonable time as i very much need my car as it my only source of transportation.” The car should have been returned to the seller for repair – yes possibly an inconvenience to you but with the £862 you would have saved by not paying for the repair yourselves you could of hired a car or even bought a cheap one off ebay or locally and sold when yours was repaired. This assumes the seller did not offer a loan car.

Whilst the law protects you the retail customer you do need to follow the rules – and yes these things are an inconvenience….

Sorry to be harsh but I think you went the wrong way with this…
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Tue 22 May 2012 12:47
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - lordwoody

I'd get a proper legal opinion on this, either Citizens Advise, your local Trading Standards ( better than CA in my opinion) or phone around solicitors until you find one specialising in consumers rights. The latter may be a bit more expensive but letters from solicitors do tend to make people take notice.

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Tue 22 May 2012 14:07
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - chester37
Are Trading Standards able to help?

Traders should comply with various laws and regulations, some of which are enforced by the Trading Standards Service. For this reason, we ensure that the relevant Trading Standards authority is notified when a trader’s business practice is called into question.

However the only way a consumer can enforce their own civil rights is through the courts, meaning that generally trading standards will not be able to assist with individual cases.
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Tue 22 May 2012 14:12
Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 - Had the car only 3months..what are my rights! - chester37
Are Trading Standards able to help?

Traders should comply with various laws and regulations, some of which are enforced by the Trading Standards Service. For this reason, we ensure that the relevant Trading Standards authority is notified when a trader’s business practice is called into question.

However the only way a consumer can enforce their own civil rights is through the courts, meaning that generally trading standards will not be able to assist with individual cases.
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