Well, it's that time of year again..... which in East Anglia means fog! Tonight was pretty bad, and reminded me to ask what's the consensus regarding the use of *rear* fog lights (I've read a couple of interesting threads regarding front fogs).
I've always tended to be pretty sparing in my use of these lights - they're often pretty dazzling when the fog's not too thick, and can make it hard to pick out brake lights ahead (particularly when only one's working!). Also, when driving in busy 'convoy' traffic, the sudden uncovering of a fog lamp a few cars ahead can be mistaken for brake lights, and I've often seen 'concertina' braking occur for this reason.
FWIW, I tend to use the rear fogs only when I'm driving alone or the back marker in a traffic stream and switch them off when I see someone's tagged on behind. I'll only use them 'continuously' when it's a real 'pea-souper' and I think the guy behind might have difficulty seeing normal tail-lights - even when he knows I'm there!
All this of course does demand a bit of continuous thought and appraisal whilst driving, but surely that's the name of the game...... :-)
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You are absolutely right, the analogy is main beam, as soon as you are likely to dazzle someone turn it off. Unlike the volvo i follwed up the A5 tonight.
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Absolutely agree. This morning I sat behind a Vectra driver while the railway crossing barriers were down. I was treated to fog and brake light dazzle as he's foot was on the brake pedal throughout.
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Still he will pay in the end. If he could not be bothered to engage the handbrake he probably had the clutch down as well wearing out the bearing. You can wait 15 minutes at a level crossing round here!!
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Still he will pay in the end. If he could not be bothered to engage the handbrake he probably had the clutch down as well wearing out the bearing.
Depends if he had an Auto gearbox. After a couple of seconds left in gear with the brakes on, the autobox electronically drops into neutral to save petrol.
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Depends if he had an Auto gearbox. After a couple of seconds left in gear with the brakes on, the autobox electronically drops into neutral to save petrol.
DD,
When does the box engage D again - when to take your foot off the brake or when you press the acc? i.e. would the car roll if you took your foot off the brakes...?
Chad.R
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Depends if he had an Auto gearbox. After a couple of seconds left in gear with the brakes on, the autobox electronically drops into neutral to save petrol.
DD
Is that standard on all Vauxhalls do you know? - I haven?t had my Omega auto (2000) for long and didn?t realise it did that ? it sounds preferable to my habit moving it into N and then back to D (using handbrake rather than footbrake of course!)
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In answer to Chad.R
Car engages gear again when you take your foot off the brake. It uses the same switch as the brake lights for the trigger.
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In answer to Clear Spot.
No idea if standard on all Vauxhalls. My Vectra was 1st registered in Nov 2000 and has it. My Dad's auto Astra was 1st registered Oct 2001 and also has it.
The way to test is to apply the foot brake and come to a stop. Leave in "D" and slightly lift your foot off the brake, but still leaving the brake lights on. If the car creaps forward, it doesn't have that feature. If it does have the feature, once the brake lights are extinguished, the car will creep forward.
It dosen't work using just the handbrake though.
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Yep - agree, agree, agree. IIRC the recommendation is only use in less than 100 metre visibility??
Last Sat p.m on the M1 southbound, it was a bit murky a bit before dusk, I would have judged visibility to be around half a mile, yet the fog warnings were flashing, possibly encouraging a fair number of cars to switch on their rear (and front) fog lights. I found this unnecessary and very tiring on the eye.
Pardon my ignorance, but does anyone know the criteria used for switching on the motorway fog warnings. Is it
a) it is foggy (thanks, I hadn't noticed); or
b) there is danger of fog - proceed with caution (perhaps more useful).??
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They are a total waste of time. In fact IMHO they are dangerously worse than useless. They seem to be put on hours after the fog has settled, then left on for the rest of the day. The Fable of the little boy who cried wolf (is that right?!) always springs to my midd when I see them, same with the 50/40/30 mph displays.
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Last night, circa 19.00, there was a 50 mph limit posted when you joined the M11 from the North Circular. It was misty but 60 would have been a cautious speed, so probabably justified.
The next warnings were set to 30, although by that time the mist had thinned and you could see half a mile. Naturally everyone ignored them.
Strange thing is, this is right by the control centre and well covered by cameras, so nobody can have looked outside or at their screens.
They'd probably been like that all day!
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Yes probably, these signs are pretty discredited and consequently ignored by most, when advising speed restriction at least the intention is known, when displaying the word ?Fog? do what? Switch on your foglights was one interpretation.
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I wish everyone was as thoughtful as you! I try to be.
I use the fog light when the normal side rear lights of cars in front become difficult to see. If we can clearly see the ordinary lights of the cars in front, there can be no need for the super-dazzling light.
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It is unlikely that rear fog lights will be needed at night except in exceptional circumstances. It is a simple fact that normal tail lights are usually perfectly visible at night even in fog due to the absence of ambient light (put in plain english, the sun ain't around!). Their real value is during the day, in foggy conditions, when the relative brightness of the surroundings means that the ordinary 5W tail lights aren't visible. This simple fact was pointed out to me a few years ago & makes perfect sense.
The difficulty here is not so much *when* to use them, but how to remember to switch them off when no longer needed. My car has a nice little warning light right in front of me that reminds me. This is, I understand, the case with most cars [1]. The only conclusion I can draw is that there are any awful lot of people out there who have no idea what the pretty lights on the dashboard are for...I just hope their oil warning light never comes on.
[1] yes, this is tongue-in-cheek!
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"I just hope their oil warning light never comes on."
Many moons ago my cousin hired a Ford 105E Anglia and drove it down to Cornwall.
He was most impresed with the little green light on the dashboard which told him when he needed to change down a gear!
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The front and rear fogs on my Volvo reset to off when the engine is stopped. Why can't all manufacturers provide the same function? Oh, I know, it's cheaper not to!!
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The front and rear fogs on my Volvo reset to off when the engine is stopped.
My ZX only has rear fogs - they reset to off too. Very sensible. Unfortunately though, the bright orange dashboard fog light indicator is completely obscured by the steering wheel rim. Very non-sensible.
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The front and rear fogs on my Volvo reset to off when the engine is stopped. Why can't all manufacturers provide the same function?
Vauxhall, Citreon, and Peugeot also have this feature. However it doesn't stop the baseball cap brigade switching them back on again. The only sure way would be to fit a sensor to detect whether it is actually foggy enough to warrant fogs or not. can't be that difficult. We have proximity sensors for parking, rain sensitive wipers, and other electronic gizmos.
Why is it nearly always BMW's that drive round with their front fogs on? Well it seems that way around here anyway. t*** behind me last night[1] in a 5 series - a couple of polite flashes of my rears to hint to him to turn them off didn't work, it took another 10 mins of driving with my rears left on permanently before the buffoon switched his fronts off. All I can assume was that he was wearing his baseball cap the correct way around for a change and the peak was obscuring his vision!!
[1] IMHO, there's no need for fogs on at all when in the middle of a queue of traffic -whether stationary or moving. I just think people who leave them on are just lazy and also not paying any attention to their surroundings. However did they pass their test?
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The only sure way would be to fit a sensor to detect whether it is actually foggy enough to warrant fogs or not. can't be that difficult.
Not immediately obvious how you'd do this DD. Automatic windscreen wipers are presumably passive water detectors, and parking proximity devices just an infra-red (or similar) "is there a solid object within 6 inches" sensors [1]. Measuring visibility, the first criterion for fog light use, is not so easy. You'd need something like a light of known brightness at a known distance and you'd measure how much light you receive from it.
GJD
[1] I'm only guessing, but that's how I'd do it.
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In my VW polo you have to pull out the (twist) swith for the driving lights to get the fogs on. A twist mechanism means you have to turn the fogs off before you can turn the lights off. It means you can't leave them on next time you drive anywhere which in my opinion accounts for a good proportion of inadvertant fog light use.
James S
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Not everyone driving around with fog lights on wears a baseball cap, I think half of them don't even realise they are doing it! The current craze here is to drive with your parking lights on and your front fogs on.
How many fron fog lights actually have fog lenses in them and not driving light lenses? How legal are these rediculous blue lights that seem to be appearing on peoples bonnets? I know they are very distracting!
In the US of A all motorbikes have their headlights and indicators on permanently which goes some way to help them be seen. However, the only real way to reduce the amount of people being injured on motorbikes is to make other road users more aware of them and to make the motorcyclists more aware of just how hard they are to see. I went to the motorcycle show this weekend and one of the busiest stalls was the high visability clothing stand, they were doing a roaring trade.
Flashing people who have their fog lights on is a dangerous past time. How do you know a pedestrian you haven't seen or other road user hasn't taken the flashing light signal to be for them? While you're picking the pieces of your car up after someone has pulled infront of you Mr F. Oglightabuser drives off into the sunset. 2-0 to him!
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make other road users more aware of them and to make the motorcyclists more aware of just how hard they are to see.
We are *VERY* aware!!!
Flashing people who have their fog lights on is a dangerous past time.
I agree! I never flash unless it is 100 per cent unambiguous. Or unless I forget that rule for a minute...
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Toad
So every scooter rider and motorcycle commuter understands the importance of road positioning? I think not!
I'm not talking about the minority who take pride in riding their motorbikes and know what they are doing I am talking about the average Jo Public such as the reporter in the Saturday Telegraph who fell off her bike during her CBT! You're telling me she knows where to best place herself so she has more chance of being seen????
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I am talking about the average Jo Public such as the reporter in the Saturday Telegraph who fell off her bike during her CBT! You're telling me she knows where to best place herself so she has more chance of being seen????
To be fair to the lovely Ms Gordon, having failed her CBT she is presumably not on the road incorrectly positioning herself. And judging from the latest report she has given up trying to pilot the bike herself anyway.
But I think your point is valid Hurman. I am sure TOTH is aware of how to position his bike for maximum safety, and also aware of the number of car drivers who forget to look for a motorbike when turning / changing lanes. I am not a motorbike person so I have no first hand experience of what it's like, but from my car I do see some - not many, but some - bikers who seem not to care about their vulnerability.
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On a bike you rarely get a second chance.
The crumple zone is flesh and blood.
Those who have failed to learn postion themselves correctly and anticipate are off the road, sometimes permanently.
As with pilots, there are old bikers and bold bikers, but precious few old bold bikers.
(Even after 150,000 miles I am still learning)
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Brian
I take my hat off to you. 150K on a bike takes some doing. I rode to work, approx 35 miles a day, for 1 year on a motorbike and have lived to tell the tale. I have just got myself another bike after a few years off and can't wait to get back on the road.
Tonight a young scooter rider tried to take on my Picasso as I was turning left into my drive. The turning is about 1 metre past a busy junction. I can't indicate until I am through the junction and drive slowly to try and make other road users aware I am going to do something. Because the scooter was so close to the kerb and turning left she / he didn't see my indication and set off as I was pulling in. I was keeping an eye on them and stopped imediately but as you say their crumple zone is just that, a broken leg and a written off scooter could have been the result.
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