Seeing the glee which some are directing scorn at Toyota's honest and responsible approach i don't think Ford are getting too much stick.
Hope no one ever says anything derogatory about Skoda, the darling of the BR.
BB's right most cars are getting for too complicated, i for one just don't want it and will again buy accordingly when the time comes.
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BB's right most cars are getting for too complicated i for one just don't want it and will again buy accordingly when the time comes.
But how will you (and I) buy accordingly?
All new cars have become over dependent on computers, so what can we buy, that we would like to?
And no, I am not a Luddite, as some would like to believe, I was an early user of the internet, the company I worked for when I left school was one of the first car dealers to use a computer for all parts of its business, (the computer was owned by them, was real time, and on-site)
I love technology, when thought through properly, and used correctly, with failsafe systems as a must have, when required. It is such a pity that technology is now used as a way to sell things (not just cars) with IMHO no care to what may happen when its out the showroom.
A case that springs to mind is I-pods, non-replaceable batteries? one reason I'll never own one.... but, cars are going the same way - many parts now are only available as major components - antiroll bar bushes on some Mercs are only available on the antiroll bar itself - £100+ for 2 bushes costing £1.50 each? GET REAL!
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haven't neccesarily picked up on an anti Ford bias
another plus for Ford, in my book, is they saved Jaguar. No doubt without the 'home politics' they'd have kept it as well.
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I really like Fords but I find that on the used market they attract a premium over Vauxhall and Vauxhall's of a certain age rust less so I am prepaired to swap a welder for a slightly worse driving experience.
I always like taking my dads Fiesta round the block with its razor sharp handeling and very slick gear change. Its 13 years old and amazingly has no rust underneath either, just one of the arches are started to rot. We paid £850 for it, it has electric everything including the drivers seat, we have put over 25k on it and its approaching the third year of our ownership now, the engine still sounds very quiet at tick over, not bad for a pushrod engine with 85k on the clock. It does burn a bit of oil though and it is looking a bit scruffy.
I will always like Ford I am just not sure if there is any current Ford I actually want. I really like the Focus but finding a good one second hand is too hard as I found out last year.
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But how will you (and I) buy accordingly? All new cars have become over dependent on computers so what can we buy that we would like to?
Well we did already with the Hilux, part of that decision was it's tough relative simplicity though obviously not the only reason.
We may well be able to manage with one car soon so pick up may well be the one and only motor, if we do have to buy another car it will be either an older design (or older car) with fewer gizmos, or a Korean car probably with the longest possible warranty to be regarded as scrap afterwards meaning any life after the 7 years is a bonus...possibly a Magentis or similar.
I too like some modern things, but the dependency on computers for their own sake has been taken to extreme's, things like climate control are in my opinion wholly unnecessary and i avoid such things like the plague.
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I just see Fords as a mainstream, dull box. Always have been, always will be.
The driving experience is only a few % better than the competition these days.
That's not to say I have any animosity towards them. I'd have a Focus or a Mondeo in a heartbeat if the price was right. I just don't see them as the be-all and end-all.
In the grand scheme of things, of the mainstream makes I'd put Honda > Ford > VW > Vauxhall > Peugeot, and I put a personal valuation of each brand according to my personal view of their relative quality. VW's position probably precludes me from buying one as I know they'll never be cheap enough.
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I would rather have a Ford than VW because I just don't understand for the life of me why VW is considered a premium brand. Why do VW still play on their reliability when Ford now seem to do better for this?
I always see Ford as a bit more exciting than most mainstream cars, they are always a bit difference and I would say this began with the Ka back in 97.
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The top of the range Fiesta has a list price of £15k. So when did Ford become a premium brand?
No sense making a fuss about VW when Ford will happily suggest a shopping car is worth 15 grand - everyone is at it, its why we have only a couple of genuine budget brands now.
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I would rather have a Ford than VW because I just don't understand for the life of me why VW is considered a premium brand. >>
I have nothing against VW, there are a few I would quite fancy (a Golf V 1.4 GT would be much more sensible for the wife than her preferred TT) though they have never lived up to the much over hyped reliability reputation.
>>Why do VW still play on their reliability when Ford now seem to do better for this?
Who knows, they position themselves for a knocking.
I always see Ford as a bit more exciting than most mainstream cars they are always a bit difference and I would say this began with the Ka back in 97.>>
I agree, HJ says in his new S-Max test " Opt for the Titanium level of trim and instead of comparing the car with Vauxhalls, Renaults, Citroens, Peugeots and VWs, you have to look at it against Audis, BMWs and Mercedes. Fords have long been equal or better than these cars under she skin, but now the evidence is tangibly there in the ambience of the cabin and the quality of the trim. ".
I would say that this has been the case for 8 years or more when the Mondeo III came along and was light years ahead of the Passat.
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I agree HJ says in his new S-Max test " Opt for the Titanium level of trim..."
...and exactly (word-for-word) the same for the Galaxy :-)
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Hmmm. A work colleague has a new Titanium Plus Mondeo, and while it is undoubtedly a good car, I think you're all getting a little carried away comparing it to a Mercedes! The carbon fibre look inserts are unconvincing to say the least.
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Ford HAS taken a stuffing here recently.
Ford's though are the best cars I have ever owned. They just do what they say on the tin.
'er indoors 1 Capri 1600 GT
Me MK 1 Cortina
Us 2 Orions, 1 GL, 1 Ghia. (Sterling cars)
1 MK 2 Granny 2.8 GL
1 MK 3 Granny 2.9i Ghia
My Dad 1 Sierra 1.8 something or other, another sterling car. He also had a 2.8 twin wing rocket thing back in the Eighties.
Me MK1 Escort 1300 GT.
Ya can stick Audi's et all where they belong. Give me a Sierra 2.9 4x4 any day.
More Beer!!..............................M
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I wouldn't say that I am against ford's but my only ownership experience was with a H reg Escort.
Hated it, horrible handling, naff engine, a car completely devoid of any driving experience.
By 90,000 miles big ends knocking, yet under my ownership it was serviced on time and never really used oil. Also had weird electrical problems throughout the ownership as well.
By and large the worst car I have ever owned.
I drive the Focus MK I 1.8l once and thought it was gutless, hence brought a 1.6l Astra.
I remember my dad owning two Sierra's and a couple of MK II / MK III Granada's when I was younger.
Excellent cars, down to earth and very good at the market they were aimed for.
However, I am very interested to hear reviews of the up and coming Ford Focus with the Ecoboost engines.
I think Ford are onto something here (VW are already doing something similar with the FSI range of engines).
Also Ford have not needed handouts in this recession and seem to be stronger (compared to GM / Opel / Vauxhall).
Good luck to them, I think they will need it with the Korean manufacturers.
Edited by diddy1234 on 06/02/2010 at 19:07
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My family has always had Fords, from the Zephyrs and Zodiacs my dad had as a kid, through various Cortinas, Sierras and Mondeos to my mum's current StreetKa and my sister's current Ka. I've personally had a Sierra, an Orion, two Fiestas, a Mondeo and two Focuses , and not one of them was anything less than superbly reliable, and not one did anything less than exactly what was expected of them. In the case of the Mondeos and Focuses, they also drove brilliantly.
The last Mondeo my dad owned (M reg mk1 2.0 GLX) did 200,000 miles on pretty much routine servicing only. It really was astonishing how little went wrong with it, and how it just kept on going. From memory, it needed the lousy Ford alarm disabling, a couple of bits of vacuum pipe replacing, and a couple of exhausts. Never once broke down or failed to start. Clutch, wheel bearings, engine, gearbox, steering, brakes (friction material aside) were all original, and all still working fine when he sold it on. Engine was sweet, gearchange positive, and handling still sharper than a most of its rivals would have been coming off the line. It was a truly brilliant car, although admittedly so boring to look at, you would lose it in a car park. Mum's StreetKa has been a pain in the backside, but otherwise my experiences are all good.
Bad experiences with cars will always, perfectly understandably IMO, taint one's view of a manufacturer (it did mine with VW until very recently), but what I find astonishing about Ford is the way some people truly hate them without ever having owned one. My father-in-law wouldn't have one as a gift, my late grandfather would always dismiss them as "total crap", and various work colleagues view the "blue collar" image of a Ford as something they would never lower themselves to. While it's true that Fords used to rot badly, I challenge anyone to find any significant difference in the build and engineering quality of a current Mondeo or Focus, and anything coming out of Germany or Japan for comparable money. Mondeos have replaced the mk3 Cavalier as the car you can bank on to just run on and on if looked after.
I think Ford's European product range, across the board, has been consistently among the strongest of all the mainstream manufacturers for ages. You could buy anything out of the Ford range today, and you wouldn't be losing out. They all drive well, they no longer rust at the first sign of road salt, they are reliable, and reasonable value for money. And I do appreciate the way that despite many of their cars ending up in mundane motorway plodding / cheap family hack roles, they bother to make them drive so well. Much like Peugeot used to until they lost the plot in the late 90's.
I still rate my old mkV Fiesta Zetec-S as one of the best handling cars I have ever driven. Someone had taken the time to set that car up, get the steering feel just so, and introduced enough tail mobility at the limit to make it fun, but not enough to make it scary. Cars don't handle like that without a team of enthusiasts working on them, and to me that really added to the feel-good factor of the car. Dynamically, it was as near as any affordable car could be, perfect. Tyre bills weren't, but you can't have it all :-)
Edited by DP on 07/02/2010 at 17:43
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While it's true that Fords used to rot badly They all drive well they no longer rust at the first sign of road salt >>
(Apart from the Ka, of course)
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...no longer rust...Apart from the Ka, of course...
I would have thought that remains to be seen, but hey, 15-year-old Kas rust, so new ones must, too.
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