I do this manouvere all the time, and have to agree with Alto ego - in that whilst moving out and touching the centre line was ok, to have 2 cars think they could get through in front of you means there must have been a too big a gap between you moving out after the car going in front of the bonnet.
As l'escargot says - no collision no injuries no probs - better luck next time
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I do this manouvere all the time and have to agree with Alto ego - in that whilst moving out and touching the centre line was ok to have 2 cars think they could get through in front of you means there must have been a too big a gap between you moving out after the car going in front of the bonnet.
I guess that you guys are probably right, although I am really not that sure. The last car had passed and I started the turn and then had to brake as they came through.
They came through at speed, so had approached at speed and so presumably had decided to jump the gap before the last car had passed me. If I had turned earlier, I don't think they would have been able to avoid me.
My guess is that it is just reckless driving fueled by anger at having their way blocked. Even if I did leave slightly too much of a gap, it was still completely reckless because I was obviously going to be going forward.
I don't think that I will move faster in future, rather I will move more slowly and check that the cars coming from the right are actually going to stop. Too risky for my taste (especially with the kids in the back) to assume that those idiots would not plough on anyway.
I was delayed a couple of seconds, and just left angry by their driving, I can live with that.
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>>>> I have only been driving a few weeks and already have plenty of stories of, in my opinion, ridiculous driving and aggressive behaviour, <<<,
Steelspark, driving in London is a nightmare for anyone but more so when you have only been driving for a few weeks.
However, try not to judge others actions, who will have a lot more experience than you just yet!
There is a fine line between progressive driving and aggressive driving.
What you see as aggresive now, I can assure you, you will see as yourself practicing progressive driving, in less than a years time!
My advice?
Take the left turn and go round the block at least until you feel ready to 'barge' as others do!
And tell your wife to stop nagging too:)
Pat
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Nothing wrong with this - but I would second the view that you weren't quite quick enough once the traffic had passed (and a gap appeared..) from your left - the right coming vehicles obviously saw enough of a gap to swing round you - why weren't you there well before them?
I rode as a bike courier for several years in London & learnt to 'command' a space (..and upcoming space..) so as to deter the opportunists similar to those you encountered.
It's always useful to look as if I was about to go (look around, move in your seat, turn wheel slightly etc..) - even if I wasn't - it made other drivers hesitate & re-consider - which then allowed me to 'escape' / turn /merge whatever.
Now I live in the sticks, the level of awareness about road space & its value is pathetic - even with acres of space/time timid/poor drivers waste much time & can seemingly create a jam with 2 vehicles.
Edited by woodbines on 05/12/2009 at 17:11
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Nothing wrong with this - but I would second the view that you weren't quite quick enough once the traffic had passed (and a gap appeared..) from your left - the right coming vehicles obviously saw enough of a gap to swing round you - why weren't you there well before them?
You could be right, but it is not be recollection. There might have been a second delay, but there is no way that they saw ahead of time that I was going to leave that gap (again, they had to take the decision early because they had not slowed down).
I think it is more the case that they were gambling that if I saw them hammering towards me, I would not pull forward. They gambled right, but only just.
Think I am gonna get one of those cameras then I can post my adventures for you guys to dissect! :)
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There is a fine line between progressive driving and aggressive driving. What you see as aggresive now I can assure you you will see as yourself practicing progressive driving in less than a years time!
Yeah, I am still getting used to the flow, but I think that there is no doubt that there is a lot of aggressive drivers, embodied both in reckless driving (like this incident IMHO) and just the honking, shouting, pulling faces that I see a lot of. It is only a minority (after all, in this case, after those two idiots went through, there where then a bunch that had to stop because I had not been able to move forward, but weren't supid enought to cross in front of me).
Sorry to be so dismissive of that small proportion of drivers, but they are aggressive idiots in my opinion. To cut in front of me saved them a second or two, on a road where there were no queues, and there is no doubt that it was dangerous.
On the other hand I do certainly see other drivers who are more assertive, and would like to learn from that.
I am hoping that I can become a more assertive driver, but don't seek to be one of the morons, who are likely responsible for a large proportion of the accidents, when they do finally lose on their gamble (of course, they will no doubt blame the other driver).
My advice? Take the left turn and go round the block at least until you feel ready to 'barge' as others do!
Thanks, I do appreciate the advice, but I think that I am happy with the amount of barging that I did. The lesson I am taking away from this is just to double check for the idiots (sorry to be dismissive again).
My guess? Most of the accidents are caused by one person being reasonably assertive and one person gambling that they won't be that assertive.
I think I am holding my own better and better (certainly room for improvement), but there are limits of what I am prepared to expose the family to, until such time that the idiots have wiped themselves out.
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A huge proportion of drivers today are selfish and thoughtless...they pass the test and that's it, no further thoughts as to improving their driving. Treat them all as morons and you won't go far wrong. Even the polite ones can get it wrong.....they flash you to do something, don't believe them. I can't count the the number of times I've been flashed out of a side road
when the flasher hasn't appraised the situation, missing the biker or cyclist that they overtook 10 seconds ago !
Waiting today to turn right into a car park....traffic solid in the other direction...3 cars could have stopped without slowing the queue down but no, and the 3rd one blocked my turn, gave me a mimsy wave of apology and sat there...they don't look ahead or think.
treat them all as though they're in their own little world !
When you get more experienced and wiser to the cut and thrust of life on the road you can indulge safely in some ' creative driving '.
Ted
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Wind the window down and make eye contact with oncoming drivers when attempting to pull out... Didn't they do a study that decided drivers see other vehicles as impersonal objects and that by a driver appearing more visible and making eye contact increases the level of human interaction and increases more courteous behaviour.
Might not work if its turning into fast moving traffic, or if you have a creepy serial killer stare!
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Interesting that this thread relates specifically to London driving. By way of a personal observation I conversely find smaller towns tend to produce less aware and less considerate drivers than the larger cities.
In my view, if you proceed with confidence and make your intentions clear with good but non-aggressive positioning and clear signals in a large city you will mainly get cooperation from others. In small towns they are less savvy and much more protective of what I presume they see as their personal space.
I agree with the tip of trying to get eye contact from someone from whom you need a motoring favour though. I too will wind the window down and for example use a right turn hand signal in addition to the electronic indicator. Usually in a city that will elicit a positive response. In a small town though they will continue to stare straight ahead, often complete with the standard vacant mouth breathing medieval peasant expression set on their faces while blocking your way.
Conversely, get one of the city slickers on a fast open rural A road in the dark and they are often clueless in that environment.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 06/12/2009 at 10:16
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...eye contact...
Noticeable difference between driving the CC3 with the roof down or up.
More interaction with the roof down which makes it easier to get what Humph describes as 'motoring favours'.
Being decisive without being aggressive works well in big cities.
'Mirror, signal, manoeuvre' applies, but in a different order:
Manoeuvre, signal to confirm what you've already started doing, quick glance in the mirror to make sure you are not going to hit anything.
Although the mirror is optional.
Edited by ifithelps on 06/12/2009 at 10:35
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"Noticeable difference between driving the CC3 with the roof down or up"
More sailors blowing kisses at you when the roof is down?
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...More sailors blowing kisses at you when the roof is down?...
Bit of a tired old stereotype there, BBD.
But as you asked - after a fashion - I'll list one or two things that are different about driving with the top down:
You hear a lot more - snatches of conversation by pedestrians and sirens earlier than other drivers.
I pulled over for a cop car once, only to be flashed by the driver behind because he had yet to hear the siren.
Then there's birdsong and the noise from other vehicles, particularly lorries.
Driving through a village I passed a guy walking his dog and heard him address the dog by name - something you wouldn't hear in a closed car.
As regards interaction with other drivers, I think they see me as more of a human being with the roof down, which makes them less likely to cut me up and more likely to let me through.
A couple of motorcycle pillion passengers have waved as they've gone past - something they wouldn't have done had I had the roof up.
Some journeys pass without any of the above, but most do not, so generally speaking driving with the top down is more involving.
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>>But as you asked - after a fashion - I'll list one or two things that are different about driving with the top down:<<
Was in slow moving traffic a few weeks ago behind a guy in a Willys Jeep,sans tilt,peds were stopping to chat to him as we crawled along.
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But as you asked - after a fashion - I'll list one or two things that are different about driving with the top down:
Meeting drivers who think its funny to put the washers on full blast when being tailed by a person in an open top car?
(yes guilty as charged - sorry - its the child in me)
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...Meeting drivers who think its funny to put the washers on full blast when being tailed by a person in an open top car?...
But since I'm such a good driver and always leave a decent gap, you wouldn't get me unless you had a Karcher under the bonnet. :)
Incidentally, the car's own washers don't spray into the cabin, although I thought they would.
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