Do any Backroomers own a vehicle with a 'crash' gearbox? I remember applying for a week-end bread delivery job with the Co-Op when an art student in Wales in the 60s,-the van had a crash box, and it took quite a few awful noisy changes until I got the hang of it-very satisfying when you could judge the gear change by engine speed..those were the days!
P.
Edited by Webmaster on 01/12/2009 at 01:07
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I've driven some lorries with crash gearboxes and you soon learn to have a sympathetic engine ear:)
They were great, had character and sorted the men from the boys ( or girls!)
Pat
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I used to own a 1929 Riley 9 - complete crash box. I learned to doubledeclutch and then change gear without using the clutch at all....
Never again.
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ealry 80's the Police driver training centre at Hendon still taught double declutching...and you needed it when you drove the coach.
Never did master the brakes on the coach though...they were real on/off things...:-(
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When I first joined the fire service in 1981, we still operated Dennis's with crash gearboxes. The drivers on my first watch were all trained to use these even though we were starting to purchase automatics. It was an art and a pleasure to see certain drivers manouvre at speed going up and down the gears double d-clutching making it look easy. Always making great progress through the horrendous traffic in Southall, and getting us safely to incidents in minutes. Great skill.
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I have owned more than one car with shot synchromesh on one or more gears, making a crashbox gearchange technique necessary. Until fairly recently, too, cars didn't have synchromesh on bottom gear, so if you ever went up very steep hills or were baulked on a corner on one, you needed to double declutch to get into first gear without damaging the pinions.
It's a matter of rhythm and timing. You can get used to it quite quickly.
Edited by Lud on 30/11/2009 at 19:34
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I still catch myself doing that occasionally and inadvertantly Lud when down changing to 1st. Tends to make me glance about to make sure no one has noticed these days of course. Blipping the accelerator in a diesel Mondeo rarely elicits admiring glances......
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 30/11/2009 at 19:39
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I've driven a few lorries with crash gearboxes in the 1970's. In particular I remember several long trips in a Leyland Super Comet 16 tonner - the later type with the attractive Ergo cab also fitted to AECs and Albions. It had a 5-speed non-synchromesh gearbox plus a 2-speed axle operated by a button on the gearlever.
You had to double de-clutch on all changes, up or down, but the change was finger-light with practice. In those days we were taught to double de-clutch all the time on the HGV driving course, since lots of heavy lorries had crash gearboxes then.
Nowadays, of course, on modern synchromesh gearboxes, double de-clutching is counter productive since all it does is double the amount of wear and tear on the clutch operating mechanism.
Incidentally, to be pedantic, the term 'crash gearbox' strictly refers to sliding mesh gearboxes, where the actual gear wheels slid in and out of position - those went out in the 1920s. These later types were non-synchromesh constant-mesh boxes, where the gears are engaged by dog clutches, but without synchro cones.
We had a Morris Minor when I first started driving, which, like many cars of the day, had no synchromesh on first gear. But one rarely needed to change down to first on the move - only for going up very steep hills.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 30/11/2009 at 20:20
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Learned to drive in my Dad's Maxi at the age of 17. At 2 years old the synchromesh had failed on 2nd and 4th gears, so I was able to impress my driving instructor by being able to double declutch even though it was totally unnecessary in his Fiesta.
This skill subsequently came in useful on 2 occasions. Firstly when I bought an MG Midget with an unsynchronised first gear and secondly when I had a TVR Griffith which just sounded ace when double declutching during a downshift (especially in a tunnel).
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None of the agricultural tractors I drove had syncromesh.
Double de-clutching with a hand throttle means there's no hand free for the steering wheel.
No problem in a field, but a bit hairy on the road.
Some of the tractors didn't have very good brakes, so being able to drop down a gear was necessary to get decent engine braking, particularly with a ton or two of grain shoving you along.
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Incidentally to be pedantic the term 'crash gearbox' strictly refers to sliding mesh gearboxes where the actual gear wheels slid in and out of position - those went out in the 1920s.
They might have on cars; some HGV's had sliding-mesh until just after the war.
With a constant-mesh box, the true art is to use the clutch only for starting off and coming to a halt. As Pat rightly says it sorts out the wheat from the chaff ;note specific use of non-sexist terminology! ;-)
I think I may have posted this before, but click on the link to see the ultimate in "old-school" gearchanging skills, the Mack "Quad box".
tinyurl.com/3bew94
Matching the revs to the next gear up or down requires a fair bit of practice, but it also has an unexpected bonus; more than once I have managed to limp a car or lorry home when the clutch cylinder or cable has failed!
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The true art is to use the clutch only for starting off and coming to a halt
Never had any experience with these primitive vehicles, other than no synchro on bottom gear, of course. But I recall my driving instructor in 1962 illustrating how to change gear on the Mini without using the clutch. Just a matter of listening to the engine ...
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I remebber the old Comet well. Did most of my early underage driveing in one in the 60s. The one we had had a 6 speed non-synchro box, no power steering and vacume breaks.
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Ahhh, the soothing sound of "playing the tubular bells" as it was once described to me.
It was a sad day when they stopped fitting the Eaton twin splitter to trucks, best gearbox ever produced. Was fast and efficient - just had to remember to only use the clutch to start off and then forget about it. I would happily drive a twin split over any other gearbox, most drivers who have got used to one would say the same as well.
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I was "brung up" on a Jowett 3-speed non-synchro, and then my first own car was a 1933 Singer Le Mans. I confess that even now, 40 years later, I cannot break the habit of double declutching on down-shifts, although I have nearly broken it for up-shifts.
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I have a 1949 Ferguson tractor (all crash gears) and a 1969 Series IIA LandRover (non-synchro on 1st and 2nd).
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1959 Mini (Austin Seven to be precise) with the "straight" gear lever and floor mounted starter button had no synchro on first and very little on second or third. When gearing down, double-declutching was essential.
Was an absolute luxury switching to an Austin 1100 many years later (even though it fell apart from rust a year after that!)
Edited by grumpyscot on 01/12/2009 at 09:41
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Once had a 1935 MG PA. That had the original crash gearbox. It had a short travel of the gear lever, and if you matched the revs well it made a quick smooth change, which was somehow satisfying.
Something else you could do on that car was to correct a slide easily, as the steering was so positive.
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i have to double declutch the transit on a cold morning till the oil thins and the worn synchroes get some lubrication on them,no im not changing the box as i can live with it
its like making love with a beautiful woman ,just take your time
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>>i have to double declutch the transit on a cold morning till the oil thins
EVERYTHING benefits from gentle attention on a cold morning until the oil thins.
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I shall have to brush up my non existent technique since the ould Galaxy gearbox has got a whole lot baulky these cold mornings. I am useless at clutchless changes btw, tried it a couple of times, probably lacked confidence, due to being in my own, owned car.
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Clutchless changes are nothing to do with confidence, if the revs are right then the gear lever will just slide out of one gear and straight into the next with no more effort then a slight push from your little finger, any more firmness then that and chances are that revs are not right so will grind a bit!!!! Try just dropping it out of gear to neutral first and you will see what I mean, ease off the gas as you do it and the pressure will ease on the lever, then it will fall into neutral, from here is is just continue the movement to the next gear up keeping the same revs.
OK, going down the box may be slightly harder as you need to increase the revs as you do it rather then keep them constant, but it can still be done with ease (and quietness) with practice.
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Better try again then R75,
she may be a scrapper but I just spent £495.00 towards MOT prep.
Probably should have bit the bullit, but could NOt make my mind up, as to a replacment.
We do not know what we like
we like what we know
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Many years ago, I had a job delivering cakes and the like and one week was assigned a bigger truck than normal for me, which had a crash gearbox, I seem to remember it was a Leyland something or other.
At first it was a bit of a shock, approaching a roundabout trying to change down, but it did not want to go in without that crunching noise, but I soon got the hang of double declutching in the end.
What I do remember is that the thing seemed "gutless" and would not go very fast. I had a look at where the "throttle" cable went on the diesel pump and saw that with a couple of spanners I could readjust the throttle stop it so that it had a bit more go.
Next morning I had a fiddle and from then on it went a lot faster, I guess if the company mechanic had found out, it might have been the end of the job, but I think they thought we were all mechanical inept !.
Btw, Yes I do know that diesels don't have a throttle.
Oh and by the time I had moved on from the job, I must have put a stone on in weight from eating lots of cake ! :-)
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a twin split over any other gearbox most drivers who have got used to one would say the same as well.
Agree with that, and twin splitters or it's equivalent should be compulsory fitment in every truck...that'd get most numpties permanently off the road cos they'd never make it out of the gate.
Edited by gordonbennet on 01/12/2009 at 17:37
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