Relating to buying/selling property can anyone give a guide to how much a damp proof course would be on an older (large) building? We're talking a 1910 period property. I know the exact cost depends on size but if there was a cost per metre (if it's a chemical type process) I could work out the rest.
Brickwork -brickwork? Brick-block? Block-block? Stone work? Render? Access? Making good internally? Outside ground level in relationship to internal floor level? And so it goes on.
I have a business that deals or rather dealt with this type of work. I say dealt because it was another industry that became plagued with Cowboys doing it on the cheap AND not correctly. The guarantees are worthless (small print).
I will still do it but usually within a Building job.
VBR..........MD
|
As Martin says it varys wildly between firms and methods. Some will inject as is with just the holes to make good... others wish to strip and re-plaster the whole house to 1m which costs a fortune.
In my experience true rising damp is rare and the work is often not required. Think condensation, bridging, penetration and other factors first.
|
|
|
Brickwork -brickwork? Brick-block? Block-block? Stone work? Render? Access? Making good internally? Outside ground level in relationship to internal floor level? And so it goes >> on.
Until I did some googling the above didn't occur to me posting - it should have. A bit like asking advice on a car and not a particular model.
Anyway, it is brick and the ground floor is above ground level (you go up a few steps). So a DPC on the outside would be below the floor level. Access to the inside walls (below floor level) possible via the cellars on one half of the house and a crawl space on the other half.
There is no render on the outside of the house. There is no damp showing internally so hopefully no plaster to remove in the first place.
|
rtj70,
If there is no damp showing inside why are you worrying about installing a damp proof course? especially if building is old and raised above ground level.
Lime mortar (usual for a 1910 building) is breathable unlike portland cement mortar. So if it has recently been repointed with incorrect mortar then fix this. Also check gutters, downpipes, flashing etc
If it is a condition of mortgage or raised as an issue by surveyor then request another survey with one experienced in older buildings. Installing injected damp proof course with impermeable cemtent based render to 1m inside is likely to cause more long term problems than leaving well alone.
StarGazer
|
|
|
>>> There is no damp showing internally <<<
So why do you feel you need a DPC comrade?
|
As MM says. if there is damp, there is probably a root cause. Find and Fix that first.
|
|
|
Stargazer is correct that this has been raised by a surveyor and is a condition on a mortgage. There is no visible damp (and never has been) but one of those "damp meters" used by the surveyor showed evidence of damp.
I also realise the locations (at least two) are close to downpipes....
From what I've read, a DPC can cause more problems than it fixed. Also most of the protection from damp actually comes from the replacement covering on the walls (which is not necessarily good for the property) and not any DPC.
|
Oh boy - another surveyor who cant use a damp meter properly or interpret what it says.
Edited by Webmaster on 21/11/2009 at 12:51
|
Oh boy - another surveyor who cant use a damp meter properly or interpret what it says.
I thought that too. When we got a mortgage around 9 years ago the building society valuer raised the same thing to be honest. Nine years later there is still no visible damp. When we had the hall redecorated I expected to see evidence when the wallpaper was removed... but the wall was fine.
Edited by Webmaster on 21/11/2009 at 12:52
|
>>>Oh boy - another surveyor who cant use a damp meter properly or interpret what it says.
These guys make me mad. Our second house was a semi that had been created in the 1930s by splitting off part of a lovely 1908 property. The whole place was in superb condition but stuck in the 50s from the decor/kitchen/bathroom point of view.
There wasn't a sign of damp or worm but of course the B.soc guy said it had to have the damp/timber *specialist* check it over. As you can guess he made the meter wail then insisted on the full monty with timber treatment and chemical injection damp course.
They roughly pulled up sections of the previously untouched timber floors upstairs and down to worm treat. The house was injected from inside and out for the damp chemical leaving disturbed /shattered bricks, loose plaster and weakened motar layers plus the horrid line of plastic plugs.
When we sold the place the buyer's surveyor only just agreed not to have a similar specialist look it over again because... They were convinced filled holes on the back of a bedroom door where we'd had a dart board was sign of concealed worm... they were worried there was a latent serious damp problem as they told me it had been chemically treated with signs of a later electronic damp course added (there are such things). I had to point out the heavy black wires they had noticed running outside about three bricks up were actually my hi-fi speaker wires running from the amp to an extension pair in a second room.
The truth was the house had an original and satisfactory slate damp course about three/four bricks up and had never seen a jot of worm. Money and destruction all for nothing.
Edited by Webmaster on 21/11/2009 at 12:52
|
my twopennorth
had the same problem 12 years ago ,i paid £250 for a proper survey and gave this to the halifax they accepted and the damp went the way of the idiot with the tool or was it a tool and an idiot
|
My last 4 properties were purchased on the advice of an excellent surveyor = me!
I've seen some horrendous damp but - only where the external ground level has been higher than the internal floor level (barn perversions!)
I've also seen some un-believable worm infestation which looks daunting at first but when you learn about the worms life cycle (hehe!) the timbers can be easily treated with the latest Boron based treatments.
And as for septic tanks, well - I spent 12 months down one 3 years back :(
Re: the damp (moisture) meters, you can buy your own for £15.
|
Surveyors!
I am one myself but don't do any of those house buyer surveys - just simple valuations for me. And guess what - I have rarely if ever seen rising damp. In fact my tutor 20 years ago suggested that there was very little about. It is usually condensation, dpc bridging and poor pointing.
|
Surveyors! I am one myself but don't do any of those house buyer surveys
*Surveyors* eh! Professional (now that's a nice word) Indemnity insurance costs a few quid and of course, needs to be maintained well into the future as claims can arise several years down the line. All Surveyors take the get out route and will state perhaps, "Some evidence of Beetle infestation, we suggest you get the opinion of a *specialist*. The Client calls me. I go and do 'Survey' (I am not a Surveyor) Just been doing it for 30 years! I find the usual flight holes of the Common Furniture Beetle, but they are not live. The ruddy *Surveyor* knew this, but doesn't want the slightest risk to him and his PI insurance so I report what I see and that's the end of the matter. No Prob'=No work=No income and not paid for my Survey.
Oh I hate the Construction industry and the Cowboy Clients and useless *Surveyors*
Morning rant over. Going off to kick the Dog now!!
MD....(wet and windy north Devon)
Edited by Webmaster on 23/11/2009 at 01:14
|
MD
I agree with you re surveyors.
My first house - Down pipe is leaking!. No the house was kept so cold that the lead rising main on the inside at the same corner of the house had repeatedly burst.
Neighbour sold house and I came home to find a lovely very old cherry tree, that was next to a surface drain manhole had been felled.
After it having been there for decades, probably seven decades, IMO it was not a threat to drains.
Both houses I have owned, "Roof needs replacing" 20+ years later " when should i do it?"
No mention that my 1930s house is very very badly built, joinery awful, bodged by the builders all over the place, but usual report full of rubbish like I could not lift the carpets. No a mention that doors so badly hung that one would not fully open.
In my experience, most are a waste of time and money.
I would prefer getting a good old local builder to give it a once over.
|
MD I agree with you re surveyors. In my experience most are a waste of time and money. I would prefer getting a good old local builder to give it a once over.
Not so much of the old!!
I could do a very decent 'Once over', reporting on the pertinent matters for £250.00 max' + vat. I could arrange for colleagues to do full or part Electrical inspections, Oil boilers, Gas etc etc. in addition to the former, but all for probably less than a crap 'Survey'. Report in writing obviously.
Just the facts. No waffle.
And no, I won't be going to the outer reaches of the back room for that price!!
Best to all.........Martin D. (Still raining)
|
>>Just the facts. No waffle
>>
That was exactly what I wanted.
Some in my neighborhood say " They do not build houses like they used to!" pointing to our piles. " My reply is " Thank goodness for that ! If you have a few minutes I can bore you with the many shortcomings of my house and I suspect yours too".
|
The last time I used a surveyor was back in 97 - 4 house purchases ago.
You won't believe this (but Martin will) I found a neighbours cesspit (not septic tank) on part of my land ... note *I* found it - not the surveyor.
Obviously I pulled out of that one!
I wouldn't hesitate to employ the services (and experience) of a professional like Brother Martin in preference to an over priced RICS report.
|
>>Obviously I pulled out of that one!>>
Don't you mean climbed out or got pulled out...?
..:-)
|
I suspect the surveyor used on ours house has used the magic words 'evidence of damp and wood decay" and suggest a damp and timber inspection is needed. He didn't even go under the raised floor to inspect. the timbers there.
We're hoping the independent report being arranged does not suggest work as that will add cost and time to the sale.
The other concern is a slight bulge to the gable wall - so I'll find a trusted local builder to give an opinion. Shame MD is so far away ;-)
|
The other concern is a slight bulge to the gable wall - so I'll find a trusted local builder to give an opinion. Shame MD is so far away ;-)
Well my Dear, as they zay down 'ere. If the matter of the 'bulge' is not raised (sorry) then if you have Building's Insurance and that part is not written out or subject to blah blah then I would presume that you were 'on risk' and therefore able to claim should a problem arise!
MD
|
But if not sorted out for the buyer it's all known about and therefore cannot be claimed for? Or am I missing something. The bulge (very slight) has probably been there for sometime.
It is a shame you're not nearer Martin. There'd be money in it for someone to give an opinion.
|
>>> Don't you mean climbed out or got pulled out...? <<<
(hehe) I wouldn't have been laughing if I'd purchased the property though :(
It was a barn conversion and one has to be very careful with sed agricultural buildings as they were never meant to be lived in by homo saps!
|
|
|
|
|
how much a damp proof course would be on an older (large) building? We're talking a 1910 period property.
Get a damp person or three to come and give a "free" estimate, to answer your original question. Note, an injected DPC will slightly disfigure the building, which may or may not be a concern. Note well, there could actually already be a DPC of some sort, which hasn't been noticed. Look hard for one, it could be below what is now the surface, or otherwise hidden (look just under the air bricks for a start).
|
There is a DPC and no evidence of damp. Just what the surveyor said. He may be passing the buck in terms of responsibility. He cannot have checked the timbers at all either. He didn't try to get access - he says he was not asked to enter the crawl area so how can he offer an opinion.
If there was damp, then more likely to be related to downpipes I think.
Thanks for all the input on this.
|
When I was selling MIL's houe a couple of years back, the new owner had a damp survey done. the report said that all the joists downstairs were damp at the outside wall ends and needed replacing with all the related work.......£3500 please !
I went under the floor and had a good look.......he had seen that the ends of the joists were darker than the rest, thought they were damp.......it was where they had been dipped in creosote in 1925. Meter showed it bone dry everywhere......no work has been done and all is OK today.
Just trying it on...I think !
Ted
|
|
Thanks Ted. The thing is the surveyor couldn't see the joists. They are covered in the cellar half and he didn't go in the crawl space (not asked to!). We will see though.
|
|
|
|
There is a DPC and no evidence of damp.
But... but.. but... oh well, I'm off for a cup of strong coffee.
|
The RICS provide guidance to surveyors on the use of moisture meters
www.rics.org/site/scripts/download_info.aspx?fileI...0
The guidance points out that they do not work on anything other than wood. Your surveyor is rubbish. Get one who is used to old buildings and has a brain in his head. (I've spent a healthy sum on houses and never bothered paying a "surveyor" for a homebuyers report etc. complete waste of time and money.)
Hand-held electrical conductance meters are commonly used by surveyors. It is important to understand that these
meters do not measure the actual moisture contents of building materials. They measure an attribute of materials,
specifically of timber, which is affected by moisture content. They are usually calibrated for use on particular species
of timber, and have been found to be accurate within a limited range of moisture contents. Electrical conductance
meters cannot be used to measure actual moisture contents of masonry, plaster or wallpaper.
|
Thanks Mapmaker. He's not our surveyor - the damp is allegedly in our house we're selling. No sign of damp on walls. Timbers under floor look sound to me. He didn't even enter the crawl space under the raised flooring for one half of the house either.
I'll take the useful info from this thread into account when it comes to the house we intend buying.
|
I forgot to add originally, that when we took out the current mortgage and the mortgage company did a valuation they too pinpointed "damp" where this report says. 10 years later no sign of damp - we ignored it for good reason (use of a "damp" meter which I already knew a little about).
When we redecorated the hall about 5 years ago I half expected evidence of damp in the corner where it had been measured... wall/plaster was totally sound when paper stripped. And it still is (I hope).
I've now got a copy of the report and it's probably a bit of a case of not wanting to take responsibility. They were not asked/paid to enter the crawl space and therefore could not assess the timbers there. They look okay to me - I've been in there recently.
Fingers crossed and a big thanks to all who replied. Now if we move to our chosen new house (250 metres away!) then if we needed advice (paid) or an extension then I'll ask on here for those close to use who can help ;-)
And why move 250 metres? Swapping a period 4 bedroom massive house for a smaller 3 bedroom home - and no mortgage. We no longer need four bedrooms.
|
I forgot to add originally that when we took out the current mortgage and the mortgage company did a valuation they too pinpointed "damp" where this report says.
I forgot, that happened to me as well, Rob. 39 yrs ago mortgage surveyor pointed out damp by front door...on outside wall..turned out to be blocked porch gutter.............no sign of it since !
Tedl
|
Three areas noted for damp that was checked.... two by downpipes and one the drainpipe from the bathroom. Maybe there is some "damp" but not due to DPC. But we're where we are now unfortunately.
And to fix damp, the waterproof render is what holds it out. And then causes problems on older buildings. And the place needs redecorating/plastering. And so the hall alone could cost thousands as it would all need redecorating as well!
|
1. Pull out of sale and wait for somebody with a more sensible surveyor.
2. (With (1) firmly in everybody's mind) get a conference call with the buyers, you and their surveyor and find out what's actually going on.
3. Pay for specialist damp surveyor (and I do not mean a free one from a cowboy working for a cowboy firm that sells damp treatment who will find damp even in your central heating boiler - although to be fair to them I once did get a report from one of them that said "this was a result of a formerly leaking downpipe, no further action required" that the Council's environmental health team were getting fussed about).
4. Negotiate the payment appropriately as to who pays for it.
5. Agree a lower price for your house.
All depends on how keen you are to move.
When I sold my 1840s house, my buyer's surveyor's damp meter detected a spot where the chemical DPC had failed. Interestingly I had had to replace the adjacent bit of skirting as it had worm.
|
Mapmaker, thanks again.
The buyer is paying for an independent report. Fingers crossed that will show the true state and we will have to go from there.
|
|
|
|
|
