Watching it now.
So far the it said most money went to India, South Korea, Vietnam, Germany etc. as cars manufactured in those places are sold mostly under scrappage scheme.
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lets face it, the only way the scrappage scheme would benefit the UK if it were only available for Vauxhall, Nissan, Honda or Mini.
Wouldn't really work would it ?
Its not like we have rover anymore ....
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Most funny part is where environmentalists said it did noting for environment. The university professor claimed it just made car dealers richer :)
Edited by movilogo on 30/10/2009 at 20:28
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good programme
so i went to the top of the mountain and i said
i want a good car for my son/daughter/myself /etc to get to work/go fishing etc
and i asked myself
where art those good cars
and the answer came back 400,000 of the best ones went in the pot mate
and i said unto the clouds thats madness
but the clouds never replied
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Nice one BB, surley this 400,000 of the best ones cannot include French cars ....
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So far the it said most money went to India South Korea Vietnam Germany etc. as cars manufactured in those places are sold mostly under scrappage scheme.
India? what cars do we import from india?
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India? what cars do we import from india?
Hundai i10, i20 + Suzuki Alto
You can always find out a car's manufacturing plant from VIN.
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and what cars are made in Vietman?
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Most Ford engines(and many other components)are made in the UK even if final assy isn't here.
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This is perhaps the most badly made and ill researched programme I've ever seen. Someone was very carefull with the scissors when they were cutting the film.
No mention that government is only giving £1000.... no mention that actually they are getting that and much more in many cases back in VAT. ITV themselves make big £'s from most cars sold in advertisments.
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Only a passing mention at the end of the program about the numbers of classic cars being scrapped under the scheme. There is a good bit more info on the link below about the Riley RM featured in the program:
www.rileyrmclub.org.uk/
A real race against time by a very determined Phil Hallam, Chairman of the Riley RM Club with a happy outcome. Well done to Mr Hallam !
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It was a well-balanced programme. It could have gone on to show the negative impact on the repair business but I think enough negatives of this wretched scheme had been covered by then?
The extension of this irksome scrappage scheme seems to be portrayed in the media as a 'good thing'. It is anything but.
How can it possibly be a 'good thing' to take a perfectly serviceable old car, scrap it and then use more finite natural resources to manufacture a new one? Maybe the vested-interests brigade will answer that one.
The assertion that this is somehow fiscally neutral is complete nonsense. The reasoning put forward by some is that as long as the VAT collected from the sale exceeds the £1000 Govt. subsidy then everyone wins. What the scrappage scheme is actually doing is bringing a significant amount of sales forward. Afterall, if you were to buy a new car this year, you are unlikely to do so for another few years. What this means is that when the subsidy is withdrawn (which will probably happen after the Election...), there will be an equivalent drop in VAT. All that's happening is that we're having tomorrow's income today. This pattern is always what happens when these sorts of schemes are introduced.
It gets worse. The majority of that initially-subsidised expenditure will find its way out of the country. Whilst the dealers, finance companies and others will gain, the motor manufacturers of France, Germany and Korea must think Christmas has come early. The majority of the cost of a car sale is still the physical product and this scheme leads to a net outflow of wealth. No wonder that VW boss man thanked the UK tax payer?
But the bigger problem is that this scheme is masking over a huge structural problem. There is simply too much global car capacity - and has been for a long time but it was masked by reckless issuing of credit to anyone with a pulse. At some stage in the future the industry will have to wake up and confront this inescapable truth and scale back. Using public money to delay this inevitable outcome is quite disgraceful and will make tackling the problem that much harder.
No doubt the motor manufacturers, traders and others with vested interests will take a different view but as far as I'm concerned they can take a long walk over a short bridge. Taxpayers? money is for public services, not subsidising someone else?s new car purchase.
Rarely, if ever, has something made me so furious.
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"Taxpayers? money is for public services, not subsidising someone else?s new car purchase."
Compared with the billions of taxpayers money spent shoring up the banks the scrappage scheme is but a drop in the ocean. As HJ says the idea is to get money circulating and this sort of pump priming scheme is exactly what Keynesian economics theory suggests. Got to be worth a try.
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The money doesn't exist though, it is imaginary money circulating which is perpetuating the problem. They create £1000 out of thin air as bonds, lend it to the bank, the bank lends it to someone for a car, they put it in their bank for a few weeks, and their bank lends that £1000 to someone else, who spends it in the shops, who put it in their bank, who lends it to someone else, and before you know it, the £1000 has been used for £5000 of goods.
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Isn't it encouraging people to take on debt to buy new things that got us into this mess in the first place?
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debt to buy new things that got us into this mess in the first place?
Wall Street vs Main Street... Wall Street wins every time. It isn't just scrappage, it's the suppression of breakers' yards under h&s pretexts, and emission rules that encourage inaccessible complexity in the cars themselves: the industry wins every time and the budget motorist loses.
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But it`s not just selling a car,is it?Whether it comes from Poland,Italy,France or wherever it will need a support network of servicing and repairs,consumable parts like tyres,and will help to keep office staff and mechanics/technicians in work.
Sometimes I think a recession is self perpetuating as people lack confidence in the economy`s future. An effort to break this cycle of despondency has to be a good thing.
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What a lovely quote from that well known nest of pistonheads and boy racers, the Stockholm Environment Institute: the UK's car scrappage scheme is "Daft, irresponsible, pointless, and daft again".
The programme is accessible online for another month or so.
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with hj being once in the motor trade himself it astounds me how in the long term he thinks scrappage is a good thing
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with hj being once in the motor trade himself it astounds me
To, er, sorry HJ, give the devil his due, bb, he has started a thread for car owners who think scrappage may be inappropriate in their own cars' cases. So far unless replies are hidden there haven't been any.
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>>>Whether it comes from Poland,Italy,France or wherever it will need a support network of servicing and repairs,consumable parts like tyres<<<
But that doesn't bring in much needed foreign currency porky, we have a trade deficit running into tens of billions of pounds so although the service industry keeps ppl in jobs, it does nuffink for UKPLC.
+ The scrapped cars would have probably required a tyre or two and the odd consumable part.
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But it`s not just selling a car is it?Whether it comes from Poland Italy France or wherever it will need a support network of servicing and repairs consumable parts like tyres and will help to keep office staff and mechanics/technicians in work.
But the consumers who are taking part in this scheme already have a car which is already using those people you mention... there is no *new* business in the support network!!
If they had given greater subsidy to British made cars, a lesser subsidy to EU and none at all to outside EU then there would be a recognisable benefit to the scheme, but they didn't, and as someone else said those manufacturers in the far east are laughing all the way to the bank...
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But the consumers who are taking part in this scheme already have a car which is already using those people you mention... there is no *new* business in the support network!!
In fact there's less work needed on the new cars!
as for the makes that are selling Kia.... etc, I expect to see around 25% of their dealers go to the wall within 6-12 months of the end of scrappage.
they are working pretty much flat out selling and PDI-ing said cars, when theres no more PDI's, and 8-12 months before the sold cars come in for service - what work will they have?
Edited by the swiss tony on 01/11/2009 at 12:48
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In fact there's less work needed on the new cars! as for the makes that are selling Kia.... etc I expect to see around 25% of their dealers go to the wall within 6-12 months of the end of scrappage.
If you're up for a bet Tony then I'll have a £100 on that they won't!
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The money doesn't exist though
If we only spent money that existed we would still be in the middle ages. The whole point of banking is to create money by lending depositors money to those who need capital while at the same time maintaining the fiction that they could repay that same money to the depositor if they want their money back. That is basically how capitalism works. The entire system is based on confidence.
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"Taxpayers? money is for public services, not subsidising someone else?s new car purchase."
And that was the reason for the scrappage plan- more tax money is gained by the government in the purchase of new cars than it costs them in the scheme.
Never trust owt that sneaky unelected twice-had-to resign-in-disgrace"Lord" Mandelson has had owt to do with.
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