I've never seen so many small new/59 plate cars on the road in such a short period of registration.
My wife was commenting the other day how many people we know who are getting new cars this month, but I don't think any of them are buying on scappage.
We've ordered a new Jazz and traded in our 6 year old one. We normally would have changed a year ago but I reckon many people did what we did - hung on for another year to see how things panned out.
On the wider point, I heard from an informed source that many BMW dealerships are in financial metldown - they've barely benefited from scrappage of course. If they're in trouble then it's reasonable to assume that dealerships for other marques are in an even worse state
|
I've heard the same about some BMW dealers. One near to me was sort of the flagship BMW dealer for the country, but had to be taken over by BMW UK earlier this year because things had got so bad. On the other hand my other local dealer is smaller but no worse for it and seems to be thriving. Nearly new beemers don't spend long on their used lot.
|
The 'BMW' situation. Like I said it the Kia/Hyundai/ford/etc that are taking the pot of the scrappage scheme.
Merc have the 'A' class,BMW have the '1' series - but the kia/ford etc have many more cheaper, smaller models and gain from the scheme.
Just like the housing market, the new car sales a B still feel the economy on the whole is ready for another dive, but not as las large a the 'melt-predicted by most inc me in Jan 2009.
There are no easy solution = Brown is printing monopoly money, but you can only print so-much before the value of the uk currency is seen a a worthless/unstable currency.
We are reaching a stage were many firms, large and small will go under and only the strong will survive. I think we will oon end up in a real north south divide soon
|
|
|
"Nearly new beemers don't spend long on their used lot."
My guess is they are being unloaded at the car supermarkets or the auctions.
|
|
|
personally dont see why this scheme was brought in. Think its a huge waste of public funds. It has no green credentials, doesnt help the people who are really struggling.
As far as i can see, hyundai seem to have done very well out of this. How does this benefit joe bloggs on the street.
Same as the cut in vat - pointless and is going to cost people more. Loads of shops didnt cut the price for vat, but you can bet they will increase it when it comes back in on January 1st (which incidentally is a daft day to bring it back in).
|
|
Like my dad his Fiesta is now constantly being repaired but there was never anyway he could get a loan for a scrappage car and even with all the repairs its still a lot cheaper than buying a new car.
|
A valid point re 'money changing hands..''
new cars carry a 3/5/7 warranty = most people will still go to the main dealer to get car serviced to maintain warranty.
A few years ago when British car prices were coming in line with Euro prices, dealers were bleating, 'we make no money on the sale of the car...but servicing made money.'
I still see a hughe impact on main dealers once this scheme is stopped, ran out of money.
The gov may try and keep it going until the start of the new year or new reg in March - as most are aware, many private buyers wait for the new year or new reg before buying.
Is any ne aware of these 'scrappage' ars being re-sold as road worthy units?? If yes, then it's fraud, is it not?
|
Much as I loath the current government for many reasons, the scrappage scheme is one of their brighter moments. Yes OK, Korea and the like seem to be doing well out of it, but the car industry is far more than just the finished product.
As has been said, there is tax, parts and money spent at dealers etc and what the scrappage scheme has done, is part a large number of people with money they had sitting in their bank accounts and put it back into the system, such as my father who waited 13 years for another new car - without the scrappage incentive, I assure you the money would still be found on his bank balance sheet.
I would like there to be some sort of scheme devised whereby cars over 5 years old can attract an incentive for being traded in, but not for scrap. Instead a government organised export system to provide poorer countries in the world with a supply of more enviromentally friendly cars to replace some of their ropey examples so well documented. This would surely go some way to helping them reduce their global emissions. I dont know what countries mind you!
|
|
What a brill idea St...26
|
instead of allocating money for the scrappage scheme and reducing VAT by an amount that most people would find piffling
they should have spent the same money on long term UK projects...e.g. faster rail links, improved roads, even aircraft carriers or submarines, if we're still to have an international role in the future...
then we could have employed UK people to do something useful that would be there for the future...instead of having a fair chunk of it disappear from the country as NW has stated, having an enormous debt..and nothing to show for it
P.S. not my idea....the Yanks did it during the Depression
|
|
|
What a brill idea St...26
Gets a thumbs up from me :-)
|
>>>The gov has already clawed back more in VAT than it gave with its £1,000 allowance<<<
This is the real con by the f-lying scotsmen @ No.10 ... give with one hand & take back with t'other = the cash for clunkers caper hasn't cost them a brass farthing.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/09/2009 at 01:17
|
If as you say the main dealer network is about to collapse they should pull their socks up and start carrying out aftersales work (servicing, repairs etc) to the high standard that they claim they do whilst charging an arm and a leg for it. This year at 2 different brand main dealers I have experienced appaling service, warranty and repair work. Claiming a car has been fixed when it clearly hasn't and just handing it back saying nothing. Poor quality workmanship, lies and exhorbitant charges. Not even the courtesy to reply to letters and e mails of complaint.
There is an attitude of contempt towards customers and certainly no pride in the work that is turned out.
It seems to be the exception rather than the rule to get a good main dealer.
Unfortunately in some areas there is not a lot of option to go elsewhere.
Very, very poor.
|
"Instead a government organised export system to provide poorer countries in the world with a supply of more enviromentally friendly cars to replace some of their ropey examples so well documented"
Charity begins at home.
How about taking the decent cars traded in under scrappage and exchanging them for the falling apart bangers owned by people in the UK who aren't able to finance a brand new car.
|
>>How about taking the decent cars traded in under scrappage and exchanging them for the falling apart bangers owned by people in the UK who aren't able to finance a brand new car. <<
The only falling apart bangers in the UK are cars that are not road legal and giving good cars to people who cant even be bothered to maintain theirs cars is lunacy.
Far better to try and reduce the CO2 emissions of developing nations which is supposed to be the real climate change threat.
Sorry but there is a bigger picture that goes beyond mindless patriotism.
|
Unfortunately in some areas there is not a lot of option to go elsewhere.
..and that's only going to get worse. We notice it with our SEAT - in some areas SEAT dealers are very thin on the ground.
|
there can't be a 'New Deal' for the UK now because there isn't any money.
So instead we are getting private individuals to ship mlarge chunks of their savings to the Korea (and France and Germany and Japan and all the other places wot make cars). Great solution, that.
El Gordo has managed to increase the national debt from £340 billion to £970 billion and it is estimated this debt is so great it can never be repaid.
Estimated by who??
I don't want to appear to defend El Gordo's mismanagement (or his accountancy scams like PFI), but this is scaremongering. £970 billion is a lot of money, but it's not much more than 50% of GDP. I don't have the exact figure, maybe it's as much as 65%, but those sort of sums can be paid back, and have been before.
It just means years of austerity for ordinary people, unless some measures are taken to impose a windfall tax on those who creamed off big money during the years of the bubble. And I can't see any of the major political parties doing that.
|
Scrappage green? My backside.
Traded in my old Octavia 110tdi for V50 2.0d. MPG and emissions on Octavia are better according to both dealer brochures.
Made good financial sense for me no other reason.
Edited by Webmaster on 15/09/2009 at 02:08
|
"The only falling apart bangers in the UK are cars that are not road legal and giving good cars to people who cant even be bothered to maintain theirs cars is lunacy."
I see plenty of ropey cars being driven about on the roads. They may pass an MOT but I'd wager there are better cars being scrapped under this new scheme.
Far better to try and reduce the CO2 emissions of developing nations
Why? What's wrong with reducing our own first, seeing as this govt is so keen on creating unachievable targets?
"which is supposed to be the real climate change threat."
'Climate change' all depends on your viewpoint.
"Sorry but there is a bigger picture that goes beyond mindless patriotism"
It's poor form to be patronising on a public forum to people you don't even know.
Edited by Marc on 14/09/2009 at 10:30
|
see plenty of ropey cars being driven about on the roads.<<
So thats a visual judgement then and nothing to do with the actual physical roadworthiness of the car.
>>Why? What's wrong with reducing our own first, seeing as this govt is so keen on creating unachievable targets?<<
Because as a country, nothing we can do at home can counteract the developing nations emissions levels which will cancel out any silly little policies Our Great Leader comes up with.
>>'Climate change' all depends on your viewpoint.<<
Im not convinced, but it would be a fool to take the chance given there are alot of rather intelligent people who believe in it.
>>It's poor form to be patronising on a public forum to people you don't even know.<<
This isnt your local bowls club and I get a little tired of the small minded attitude of looking after no.1 as a country - in a wider perspective we are all the same species inhabiting the same planet and it is a joint responsibility to look after it.
|
?So thats a visual judgement then and nothing to do with the actual physical roadworthiness of the car?.
Yes of course, in the same respect that you judged that :
?The only falling apart bangers in the UK are cars that are not road legal and giving good cars to people who cant even be bothered to maintain theirs cars is lunacy?
Obviously the third world recipients of our cars under your scheme will no doubt be able to maintain them properly and nip down to the dealers for an ECU whenever they need to.
What I was suggesting is immediately do-able, practical and fits in with the whole given govt idea of improving the environment via car emissions. As an example :
One family are driving around in an F plate Granada. You know the type ? 2.9, been to the moon and back, rusty arches, collapsed rear suspension etc. They would like a new car but cannot finance a brand new car under scrappage. It?s no use suggesting a sub 10k Korean supermini because that would be too small for them.
Meanwhile under the current scrappage scheme there may be some fairly nice circa N/P plate 1.8/ 2.0 Mondeos with about 90k getting chopped in.
Now you tell me which car should be scrapped ? the Granada or the Mondeo?
Why not let them swap the Granada for a newer, cleaner, more efficient car. It?s just a case of passing the benefits down the food chain. A new car still gets bought but it?s the worst car that is taken off the road. The govt could even charge an ?admin fee? or whatever to cover their ?costs? regarding interim storage, DVLA paperwork etc.
It?s got nothing to do with narrow mindedness or ?bowling club? mentality, it?s just plain old common sense.
What do you think is wrong with this proposition?
|
What do you think is wrong with this proposition?
you have answered that yourself!
It?s got nothing to do with narrow mindedness or ?bowling club? mentality it?s just plain old common sense.
|
If the current dealers can't survive without scrappage then let them go.
Someone else will soon fill the gap as there is a (small?) market for cars.
As a country why should we subsidise one market, especially one where so few of the products are not made here, but not subsidise others?
In reality we cannot afford to subsidise any.
|
If the current dealers can't survive without scrappage then let them go.
Some of the reasons they go may not be their own fault.
When I was back in Ireland this summer, a friend was giving a lift in her 7-year-old car -- a mid-range brand with a good reputation for quality. On the way, she popped in to the garage where he has it serviced, so that they could check a rear brake which was squeaking when not in use.
I was interested to see that this garage, which I knew when it had been a main dealership, was no longer selling new cars. So I asked.
It turned out that about two years ago they had been told that to keep the franchise they would have to upgrade their modest (but perfectly functional) 1970s premises to one of the new glass-and-chrome palaces. They did the sums, refused to upgrade, and lost the franchise.
Now they are laughing at the poor fools who got the franchise. With well over a million invested in a hugely expensive new showroom, new car sales have collapsed since the recession bit (and it's much worse in Ireland than in the UK). Meanwhile the original dealer retains a loyal customer base who return for competent and fairly-priced servicing and repairs.
So the garage we visited had called the shots correctly. But I do feel rather sorry for the businesses who jumped the other way when the gun was placed to their head, and are now carrying a huge debt burden for fancy new premises, but without the sales volumes to service that debt.
If the main dealerships go under, it will be in no small part the fault of the manufacturers/importers who insisted that vehicles be sold from these absurdly expensive palaces. I'll not be sorry to see the demise of these overblown showrooms, but I do feel sorry for the franchisees -- many of them were family firms who knew how how to plan to survive a trade cycle, but weren't allowed by the franchisees to run their business in a way which would survive. Spare a thought for their plight.
|
>> If the current dealers can't survive without scrappage then let them go. Some of the reasons they go may not be their own fault.
It turned out that about two years ago they had been told that to keep the franchise they would have to upgrade their modest (but perfectly functional) 1970s premises to one of the new glass-and-chrome palaces. They did the sums refused to upgrade and lost the franchise.
Exactly!
Also on the same theme, theres the stupidity of the manufacturers in changing their logos.
three I can think of lately are Audi, Mercedes and Vauxhall.
the costs of re-signing the dealerships, and changing all the stationary is not small - and how many people even notice the change in logos?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
