"is it all really necessary, are we happy to keep paying for it and do we actually NEED it ??"
No
There must be a market for cheap simple cars out there, but would that be in manufacturers' interests?
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There are cheap simple cars out there, they're called the Nissan Micra S, the Ford Fiesta Encore, etc. etc. No gizmos or gadgets, and this isn't me having a go at Nissan Micras in particular, I think that they're good, reliable cars, but they have no gizmos or gadgets and sell well. So yes, the manufacturers arew intertested.
AS it happens we bought a Micra Activ with Air con, ellecrtic windows, remote central locking etc. and are still waiting to experience the first problem after a year. It hasn't been back once...
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never mind the cd player etc. the "new" landy doesn't have: interior lights, glove box, door locks, adjustable seats, sun visor etc. even the heater i suspect will be an misnomer.
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it may be of interest to know, that the landy i bought is 20 yrs old.
yesterdasy i helped a mate pick up his first new landy. n reg, so thats 30 yrs old.
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It always appeared to me, Graham,that the Landie was built with the outside on the inside
;-)
My C15 van is a tiny bit more sophisticated in that it has all the extras you list - but they are very basic. As a result they still work.
Like the Landie (probably) it has a simple diesel engine. The nearest thing to electronics is the radio!
Ian Cook
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My g/f has a Nissan Micra S. It has not had a single problem in 2 years. Although the interior is basic, I would say the engine management was quite advanced and complicated. Especially compared to cars of old.
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I have had cars with gimmick technology. I think sat-nav, electric seats, memory seats, heated seats, cruise control,tyre pressure sensors, auto wipers, fog lights (front or rear)are all a waste of time & money. Leather seats, climate control, cd player are not.
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Skoda Octavia Classic SDi equipment list:
PAS
twin airbags
central locking
ABS
errrr......
Yes, I wind my own windows up!
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Fairly easy to make the cut. Fitments absence of which would have no impact one way or the other on safety - waste of time and money. Fitments which demosntrable enhance driver/ passenger comfort and convenience(thus can also by extension benefit safety indirectly)- yes.
Everything else - junk it.
I applied this sophisticated analysis technique to my heap and came up with the following "junk" accessories:
* Electrically adjustable driver's seat
* Ditto mirrors
* Electrically adjustable foot pedals (honest!)
* Headlights which switch off automatically 20 secs after I cut
the engine
* an infinitely variable wiper speed which never seems to
deliver the right one: I'm happy with on/off/drizzle;
* Sound system which is so ridiculously complicated its
instructions comprise half (that's 50%) of the Owner's Manual
Give me a push button radio (with real buttons) and a single
CD changer. This thing is so damn complicated I can barely
be bothered with it, and Growlette who normally has music
wherever she goes, has cursed it long and loud in some
very fruity expositions of her provincial dialect;
* Turn indicators repeated in side mirrors (maybe)
* Battery charge indicator, oil pressure gauge, outside
temperature gauge (I mean it's never less than 25 C anyway!)
compass. Compass! If I need that to tell me where I am I'm
lost anyway;
* Oil temperature gauge
* 2 of the 4 cup holders in the front;
* The removable rubber liners in the other cup holders allowing
for jumbo cups (only in America!)
* the power socket next to the cig lighter which is exactly
the same as the cig lighter - for charging cellphones etc
* the cig lighter -- they don't supply an ashtray so let's
go the whole anti-smokming hog and be done with it;
* headlight wiper/washers
* a maddening selection of chimes and dings which remind me to
lock the door, take the keys out, switch off the lights,
fasten seat belt etc.
* A ridiculous light which flashes "Theft Warning" when I am in
the car with the doors open. If I am stealing my own vehicle
I don't need to be told since I already know that, and if
someone else has got inside to nick it...what's the point of
telling him (her)? None of these has helped me to remember
locking my keys inside (twice) -- ah, but I would keep
the 6 digit keypad combination on the driver's door, except..
...what the hell was that combination again?....
* a rev counter (on a big automatic that's showing 1800 at 140
kph?)
In exchange I would like:
* a decent size glove compartment
* a flat area with a lip round it somewhere where you can put
stuff
without it sliding everywhere when you hit a bump/round a bend
* electric window driver's side which is auto "UP" as well as
auto "Down" (helpful for exiting toll booths, gas stations);
* an accessories switching setup which meant I could play
the radio without needing the keys in the ignition;
* a thiefproof arrangement for the spare tire (this is a pickup
SUV and I live in Manila)
* the spare tire to be storable so that the valve was on the
UNDERSIDE for pressure checking purposes, can you believe
Ford have arranged it so you have to take the tire off
to do the air? (perhaps not an accessory but definitely dumb
design)
* a rear view mirror that showed me more rear (of the area
behind I mean ;-);
* a jack that looked a bit more serious than the tiny item
supplied which would barely support a supermarket trolley;
* a locking gas cap! Unbelievable isn't it, but it's an extra.
* a decent backup light for *****sake! They can festoon
the front with all this wattage, why not a bit more to help
me when invisible trees back into me? (from which you may
gather this is a currently sensitive topic!)
Carps maybe, and not all of them accessory-related, but sometimes when I step back I wonder if Ford (or others) ever really ask people what they want: it appears they bung some of this stuff in anyway.
Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.
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Growler,
My car has none of your not required (except an electric passenger mirror which is useful when you've got more than one driver who use the car regularly!).
It also has all things you wanted (except a totally secure spare wheel as this can be nicked with a pair of bolt croppers). It also has the advantage that nobody is EVER going to be seen dead trying to pinch the car.
The car? An 11 year old Citroen BX.
As you said:
>Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.
Richard
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I like having one electric mirror. The chances are the drivers side is more likely to be broken off when parked at the roadside or in traffic, and the electric passenger mirror can be dipped easily.
Why do you need an electric drivers side mirror? OK, my adjuster isn't perfect. Heating is nice too, but can't we have a switch seperate from the electric rear window to save electricity?
Oh, I drive a Xsara, electric passenger mirror (unheated)
Ben
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Trouble is, Growler - you remember proper cars, as you grew up with them. I can't believe some of he carp on your list (well, obviously I believe what you write!).
I don't think these car marketing Johnnies know the difference between features and benefits. Many of today's features have no benefits to me - in fact quite the opposite. If they cost me more to maintain (MOT failure etc) then they are a dis-benefit (if there is such a word).
..but perhaps they're being clever. When a gizmo fails and it's going to cost more than the car's worth, then the the owner will throw the car away. A typical example here is non-functioning ABS. It was, perhaps, an option on the car in question but it has stopped working. The brakes now perform the same as the non-ABS model, but must be fixed for the MOT - yet it's quite safe to drive the car with them not working.
Ian Cook
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wait for the air-bag activation device to need replacing at the 10 yr point. that'll be it's death.
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Talking to HF today about all things cars (she's now paranoid about the possibility of everything on her car failing at huge expense !) and we wound up talking about cam belt replacement. This now seems routine yet horror stories seem to crop up regulary. I don't remember my old man ever having a cam belt changed on any of his cars and I've certainly never had it done on any of mine except the current Volvo. The question is, therefore, are cam belts failing more often and, if so, why ?
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"..horror stories seem to crop up regularly"
Well we didn't have the 'net then, so most people suffered in silence, maybe...
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A lot of old cars (e.g., the Fiesta Encore) don't have cam belts. The belt is in fact a chain, which doesn't need replacing in the same way as a belt.
On the other hand, my car cost me £475. It has had a new cambelt, it also has electric windows, remote control stereo, electric sunroof, electric mirrors, fog lamps, alloy wheels, remote central locking, a fuel computer, and power steering. It's a 13-year-old Renault 19 TXE. All of those, with the exception of the fuel computer, work perfectly. I don't know if that puts me on the side of new or old cars.
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