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New role for congestion charging - Paul Mykatz-Tinks
Just seen on TV news, at launch of Durham £2 charge to drive near the cathedral.

Council spokesman said the charge is not a poke at motorists, it's to make the roads SAFER.

Now, how does that work?

Congested roads = crawling traffic.
Traffic decimated by con charge = little traffic = faster traffic.

So that's safer, then?

I'm easily confused..........................

Interesting to see the lady motorist who said she'd rather go to jail than pay the tax.
New role for congestion charging - Pete
What the hell do the people of Durham think they are doing, allowing their council to introduce this ?
It may or may not be, that this charge is the best way to deal with this particular problem on this particular street but that is no reason to allow the setting of a pecident, which can be inflicted on the hole country.
New role for congestion charging - Pete
Sorry, that should have been "whole country", no pun intended.
New role for congestion charging - The Watcher
Have any of you actually been on this road during the hours of 10am to 4pm when I think the charge is in place?

It is in fact a medievil street, narrow with lots of pedestrians walking up and across it. It is very busy and not really suitable for cars.

Just why drivers want to drive along it beats me as there is adequate parking a few hundred metres away and, if you can get to 5 mph you are doing very well.

I think some motorists are just plain lazy and think they have a god given right to drive anywhere they want!
New role for congestion charging - Pete
Then what is wrong with making the street pedestrian only? There you can wander at your leisure, dodging the snotty-nosed kids who are trying to mow you down with bicycles.
It is still a dangerous precident.
New role for congestion charging - wemyss
The simple answer to conjestion in town or a city centre must be to have pedestrian access only.
To introduce charging will benefit the better off and penalise the one's who can't afford it.
In years to come as the price increases the people of Durham (and other cities) will be stepping aside to make way for the Roller, Mercedes brigade, and probably also the local councillors who will no doubt be exempt as they are important.
If it is deemed necessary on particular roads we should ban cars completely ( for all) and not make it an addition to the road tax we already pay.

New role for congestion charging - BrianW
IIRC this street has a lot of small businesses, which would lose their deliveries (no rear access) and some customers if it was pedestrianised.

However, I agree with you that tolls are a no-no as they restrict movement on the criteria of ability to pay.
New role for congestion charging - smokie
"IIRC this street has a lot of small businesses, which would lose their deliveries (no rear access) and some customers if it was pedestrianised."

I thought there was usually provision for deliveries (maybe at restricted times) in most pedestrianised streets.

Pedestrianisation might lose some customers but the net effect would probably be to increase the numbers of shoppers/browsers.
New role for congestion charging - Tomo
In some places they simply make streets have limited access, with a notice saying what is permitted; if you read it carefully you find that almost anything bar private cars and motorbikes are allowed. Which, of course, is what the anti-car movement wants - except that no further money is extorted from the poor motorist.

I don't think it is yet practicable to tax us for wanting to be able to support local business, instead of ordering by internet or whatever!

Tomo
New role for congestion charging - wemyss
In my small town the High St which is very narrow with pavements barely a metre wide was pedestrianised some five years ago.
Previously there was a constant two way heavy flow of traffic including heavy lorries.
Barely enough room to pass each other and numerous accidents including wing mirrors striking people on the pavement.
It took years before traffic was banned apart from deliveries.
It was fought tooth and nail by the local shop owners who prophesied it would end their business and people wouldn't shop in town. How they came to this conclusion I can't imagine as there was obviously no parking in the street.
Probably 99% of town residents wanted it to happen but it still took probably ten years to happen and it has transformed the town in terms of pleasure in being able to wander down the streets without having to huddle against the wall to prevent being crushed.
To charge for access on to a public road is simply another means of extorting money instead of simply making it traffic free.
alvin
New role for congestion charging - CM
Just read an interesting article about London's planned charging. It was written by an opponent to the scheme who pointed out that:

- The computers needed for this scheme would be huge and most likely break down causing chaos.

- There would be problems with cloned cars!

- Many vehicles are not properly registered so how can fines be chased up?

- The law abiding drivers are the only ones who will be affected.



But it seems to me that one of the big problems, not just for London but around the country, is not being addressed seriously enough. I saw a programme on ITV last night (roads from hell or something like it) that traffic increases 50% with the school run. Surely if this menace can be tackled then a lot of roads would be better. I realise that the system in place for protecting and delivering children to school is woefully inadequate but surely this is (a) the most politically sympathetic option and (b) the cheapest.
New role for congestion charging - teabelly
I saw that program too. The police should have been out there during those times giving tickets to every single person that was parked on yellow lines or blocking someone's driveway. There is no excuse for such inconsiderate behaviour. There is no reason that a child (unless disabled) cannot walk 500 yards when leaving school.

I used to live near to a primary school and the number of times these inconsiderate mothers would double park so I could not even drive through was amazing. I had one pull up right in front of me when she could see I was driving down the road and I had to wait while she jettisoned her kids in the middle of the road!

I think it is just part of a general culture of selfishness. If they have the time to sit there for ages waiting for their little darlings to come out of school they have the time to park further away and walk.
teabelly
New role for congestion charging - Armitage Shanks{P}
Regrettably, another sign of the times to go with inconsiderate drivers and parkers, is the fact that there are many parts of the country where it is not safe for a child to walk 500 yards, before or after school.
New role for congestion charging - GJD
Regrettably, another sign of the times to go with inconsiderate drivers
and parkers, is the fact that there are many parts of
the country where it is not safe for a child to
walk 500 yards, before or after school.


I think that's more of a sign of lack of realistic appreciation of risk than lack of safety. And there's no reason why children too young to go on their own can't be walked 500 yards rather than driven. It would be quicker than leaving home half an hour early to pick the child up just to get a parking space.
New role for congestion charging - CM
And there's no reason
why children too young to go on their own can't be
walked 500 yards rather than driven. It would be quicker than
leaving home half an hour early to pick the child up
just to get a parking space.


What do you do when it is raining?
New role for congestion charging - Dave_TD
Get wet?

SWMBO makes a 500yd each way school run every day, on foot, rain or shine! Some mornings she can walk out of the door to meet one of the other mums parking her car outside our house as she cannot get any closer to the school gates...
New role for congestion charging - GJD
What do you do when it is raining?


When I went to school in the rain, as I recall, I got wet. Miraculously I'm still here to tell the tale. Many of my comtemporaries drowned or were washed away.

There was an elite uber-class who had access to a marvellous device called an umbrella. I think you can still get them if you hunt around a bit.
New role for congestion charging - Paul Mykatz-Tinks
"surely this is (a) the most politically sympathetic option and (b) the cheapest."

You're missing the point. Ken Livingstone hates cars. He once said if he could ban them, he would.
New role for congestion charging - CM
"surely this is (a) the most politically sympathetic option and (b)
the cheapest."
You're missing the point. Ken Livingstone hates cars. He once said
if he could ban them, he would.


Yes, I recall that Ken said he would ban them. But surly if you can get cars off the road (esp school runs) then that is a step towards erradicating cars. I am not looking forward to the beginning of next year when SWMBO or me will have to jump in the car to take my son to school (unfortunately there are no schools that cater for his special needs in my part of town and he is not capable of walking).

New role for congestion charging - BrianW
"there are no schools that cater for his special needs in my part of town and he is not capable of walking)."

Whilst not wanting to pry, if he is medically a "Special Needs" case then does not the local authority provide transport (SHMBO organises this for Essex CC as her day job, she ministers to my special needs at other times).
New role for congestion charging - CM
Whilst not wanting to pry, if he is medically a "Special
Needs" case then does not the local authority provide transport (SHMBO
organises this for Essex CC as her day job, she ministers
to my special needs at other times).


Don't know is the honest answer but I will look into it for the future. Problem is in this case the school is just over the boundary of the next council!
New role for congestion charging - BrianW
Even if Ken Livingstone ceases to hate cars, he has put in place an organisation, Transport for London, which hates cars and will survive long after Ken is a distant memory on the political scene.
In the last year traffic in London has slowed by ten percent despite traffic volume having decreased by up to fifteen percent.
Most of this has been sacrifice on the twin altars of the bus and the bicycle, with miles of extra bus and cycle lanes and built-out bus stops, so when the bus stops so does everything else (including other buses).

IMHO the only sensible way to get round London is by Underground.
Buses, stopping every two hundred yards, are a dead loss for anything other than reaching the nearest Underground station and bicycles are, if fact, almost as rare as hens teeth.

New role for congestion charging - Paul Mykatz-Tinks
"and bicycles are, if fact, almost as rare as hens teeth."

and Ken's newts..................

New role for congestion charging - tone
Ken Livingstone, and tfl seem to be similar to most other drivers. Get everybody else off the road so 'my' taxi* can take me somewhere quickly

*Remember Ken sees taxis as public transport, eg when he got one back from Blackpool, instead of taking the train.

Obviously when congestion charging starts and is a failure, it wont be because of the system being wrong, it will be because the congestion area isn't large enough. He's on about putting one around heathrow to as well, because Heathrow is 'well catered with public transport from London', shame not everybody in the UK lives near Paddington or on the picadilly line
New role for congestion charging - Toad, of Toad Hall.
"SWMBO makes a 500yd each way school run every day, on foot, rain or shine! Some mornings she can walk out of the door to meet one of the other mums parking her car outside our house as she cannot get any closer to the school gates..."


I bl**dy well hope she still gets your tea on the table when you get in!

--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
New role for congestion charging - GJD
I bl**dy well hope she still gets your tea on the
table when you get in!


That's not the approach you take on first contact with the chunky Cotswold crumpet is it Toad? That might explain your reported success rate.
New role for congestion charging - Toad, of Toad Hall.
That's not the approach you take on first contact with the
chunky Cotswold crumpet is it Toad? That might explain your reported
success rate.


A female friend introduced [1] me to one of her friends.

As she was inspecting my appearance just before the lucky lady arrived she said "Remember, don't be yourself."

[1] Set me up with.

--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
New role for congestion charging - BrianW
"Heathrow is 'well catered with public transport from London'"

It might be, but it has whatsit-all transport from anywhere else in the UK.
To say nothing of the thousands of workers there who start at unsocialable hours, they don't all live in central London!
New role for congestion charging - Paul Mykatz-Tinks

Hot contender for Most Satisfying Moment of the Year was Dom Jolly making Ken look like an utter pea-brain.

Narrowly missed the award 'cos he whacked the wrong man.............
New role for congestion charging - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Hot contender for Most Satisfying Moment of the Year was Dom
Jolly making Ken look like an utter pea-brain.


Top show. I thought Ken came out of it quite well. One of the few 'guests' to stand up for the 'victim'.
Narrowly missed the award 'cos he whacked the wrong man.............


Fairey snuff.
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
New role for congestion charging - Paul Mykatz-Tinks
"Top show. I thought Ken came out of it quite well. One of the few 'guests' to stand up for the 'victim'"

Come on, TOTH, anyone who falls for a stunt like that is in dire need of a brain scan...........
New role for congestion charging - Toad, of Toad Hall.
"Top show. I thought Ken came out of it quite well.
One of the few 'guests' to stand up for the 'victim'"
Come on, TOTH, anyone who falls for a stunt like that
is in dire need of a brain scan...........


Ahhhh. I hadn't looked at it like that. Yeah. Total muppet.
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
New role for congestion charging - PB
>>Heathrow is 'well catered with public transport from London', <<

In part because the black cab lobby has not only got its own private, free lane into town on the M4 (OK I did see a bus once), but they somehow have managed to get away with mandatory fixed fares at an outrageous level if you want to travel locally from Heathrow (e.g. £44 for the 7 miles to Windsor). In other words, they all want the lucrative trips into London, clogging up the roads with unnecessary vehicles.
PB.
New role for congestion charging - BrianW
Of course: silly me.
I had quite forgotten that Ken thinks that taxis are public transport.
So everywhere in the UK is well served by public transport then.
Problem solved, you can get rid of buses and bus lanes.
Just have taxis and taxi lanes!
New role for congestion charging - HF
Been trying to post a report here that I just read on the news, but for some reason I can't do it. Anyway, apparently a government-commissioned report states that congestion charges should be applied on roads within a 50-MILE radius of London. Seems these charges may affect more of us than I thought?!
New role for congestion charging - BrianW
Look at it this way:

The provision of roads is a nationalised industry.
The supplier can't deliver.
So the customer is charged extra for not being supplied with the appropriate level of service.

You know it makes sense!
New role for congestion charging - Cardew
I really don't see the problem with congestion charging.

1.There is too much traffic on the roads.

2.To get rid of some of the traffic you make it too expensive for the poorer motorists to use the roads. That makes it easier and quicker for the richer folk.

3.To penalise the poorer in society to help the better off is one of the founding principles of the Labour party isn't it? Ken L reckons his brand of socialism is purer than the present Labour party - so he should make it £10 to enter London.
New role for congestion charging - James_Jameson
All motorists pay a congestion charge anyway, it's called fuel tax.

Use the car more = use more fuel = more tax
Stuck in a jam = use more fuel = more tax.

How there are people who agree to additional charging amazes me.
New role for congestion charging - madf
Having tried to drive in London, anyone who wants to needs their head examined imo. So if they must drive they should be charged.. BUT the revenues should be used to improve non car transport eg the tube. Oops sorry Mr L and the Government cannot agree on that and NOTHING will be done for years and years.

(They say people get the politicans they elect and deserve:-)

If Londoners really cared, surely political pressure would force a change to the transport systems. Since nothing has been done for years, I assume London motorists don't really care. Perhaps congestion charging might make them.. I will not hold my breath.

Or perhaps the problem is that many of those who drive in London don't really care because they live elsewhere?

Judging by the filth in London and the congestion, not a city I would wish to live, drive or work in...




madf