On Tuesday, whilst driving my transit van in Reigate,as I was going up a hill I came around a corner and noticed cars parked on my side of the road, so I pulled out to over take -when I noticed a bus, who could have stopped to let me through but didn't, proceeding in my direction -
is it just an unwritten rule that drivers should give way to those those going UPHILL our is that just something I do
As I had pulled out to overtake, I had to reverse to give him space - so I checked my wing mirrors and reversed , into a car who was so close not to be visible and for some reason they didn't beep me nor took any notice of the reversing lights - there was nothing behind him as I could see that far back and he saw fir not to reverse.
Fortunately the only damage was to his front toe bar ring, slightly bent down so no major problems
but who is most culpable
Me for hitting a vehcle -
the car behind who was too close and took no evasive action
the bus driver for not stopping
Edited by Pugugly on 08/07/2009 at 20:42
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but who is most culpable Me for hitting a vehcle -
Yes ~ totally.
the car behind who was too close and took no evasive action
It's not reasonable for you to expect another driver to take evasive action when you're reversing.
the bus driver for not stopping
It's not reasonable for you to expect an oncoming vehicle (particular something large like a bus) to stop to allow you to pass a parked vehicle.
The fact that you were going uphill is irrelevant.
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Was the car you pulled out to pass parked illegally?
Er, let's not go there..... :-)
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The driver behind you, for being one of those lazy, stupid people who follow the vehicle in front round a parked car without ensuring that the road is clear for them.
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Non capisco - you were going up hill, and the bus was going in your direction too? Why did you have to reverse for it?
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Who is most culpable? - you!
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Cliff - I understood 'coming in my direction' to mean 'coming towards me'.
That said, there may be mitigating factors here but any driver is ultimately responsible for making sure the path ahead or behind is clear before proceeding.
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The salient point here is that the OP did not notice the bus. Why?
There is no written rule about giving way to vehicles ascending a hill; it's simply good practice. However, whenever a bus is thrown into the equation such things go out of the window. I've had to reverse my lorry (a far more dangerous manoevre than with a van or car) to allow a bus through when the said bus had at least a couple of feet clearance either side.
That having been said, I do have a fair bit of respect for bus drivers; it's a job I wouldn't do if you paid me a king's ransom!
Edited by Harleyman on 08/07/2009 at 10:40
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>is it just an unwritten rule that drivers should give way to those those going UPHILL our is that just something I do<
It is written as rule 155 of the Highway Code.
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Rule 163 states to "..give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road.." a rule of which the majority of drivers are aware.
Even more reason not to argue with or apparently fail to initially see a bus coming the other way.
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It is written as rule 155 of the Highway Code.
It's merely a suggestion (not a requirement), and even then has the rider "whenever you can". I certainly wouldn't expect a bus to stop in my favour.
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycod...9
Edited by L'escargot on 08/07/2009 at 11:04
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It is written as rule 155 of the Highway Code >>
which applies specifically to "single-track roads".
IMO, the relevant parts of the Highway code in the OP's situation are:
163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
- give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
166
DO NOT overtake if there is any doubt, or where you cannot see far enough ahead to be sure it is safe. For example, when you are approaching
- a corner or bend
202
Look carefully before you start reversing. You should
- check there are no pedestrians (particularly children), cyclists, other road users or obstructions in the road behind you
Edited by jbif on 08/07/2009 at 11:10
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This is weird. I was involved in a similar incident yesterday.
Approaching a t-junction, I was following a 4x4 type pick up (Mitsubishi). The pick up stopped at the give way line, signalling right. He then started to pull out and turn right, I was stationary waiting for him to clear the way before moving off to turn left. As the pick up was halfway through his manoeuvre, he changed his mind and started reversing back towards me. He reversed so far that he hit my front bumper, puncturing it with the corner of pick up's tow bar and bending the metal cross member of my car's frame behind it. I would have reversed to get out of his way, however there was another car waiting behind me at this time and I had nowhere to go.
The pick up driver jumped out and apologised stating that he hadn't seen me. I took his name, registration number, telephone number and insurance company name and we parted ways.
I have reported the incident to my insurers, passed on the pick up driver's details, and I await their response. Clearly this incident is the pick up drivers fault, however I hope he does not harbour thoughts of trying to say that I rear ended him. We have no witnesses as the car behind me pulled past us and drove on without offering to help.
I would say that the OP is clearly at fault in the incident under discussion in this thread. He should have seen the bus and waited as per the highway code, and once he had failed to do this and decided to reverse he should have checked behind before moving.
Back to my incident and I'm not having a good week - last Friday whilst in a hire car in Spain I was rear ended by a Citroën Visa derived van whilst attempting a left turn in to a side street. He was rear ended also, once he'd hit me, by an Ibiza. Fortunately a Guardia Civil officer was nearby in a car and saw the incident, thereby providing me with the necessary police report on the spot. Having taken out full insurance with the hire company (Hertz), I simply handed the keys back with the police report and was told that was the end of the matter for me. My hire car was an Opel Astra H estate, bog standard 1.6 petrol which I had been cursing and hating as a gutless piece of crap. It stood up to the impact impeccably with nary a scratch, the Citroën was an utter wreck, it totally caved in. My opinion of the Astra improved dramatically.
I'm now hoping it's not true that these things come in threes.
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Observations, without having read the other replies:
You should have let the bus through and then manoeuvred around the parked cars.
If you were already overtaking, and the bus had not approached the effectively single-track part, it should have stopped.
I don't know whether it's a written rule that traffic descending a hill gives way to traffic ascending - but, all else being equal, on narrow(ed) roads, I do this.
You are entirely an solely responsible for reversing into the car behind you.
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IMO jbif, you missed this one.
223
Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops. Look out for people getting off a bus or tram and crossing the road.
Bad luck, OP, but a lesson for the future and fortunately no (?) harm done. I was once driving a landrover towing a horsebox. I sought to pull back at a junction by going backwards. Unbeknownst to me a car was sitting behind me. I began to reverse. Fortunately, it crossed my mind that I could not see behind me just before I hit the car. I am far more careful these days.
These days I will not reverse a trailer combo, or a van, without a banksman. My brother works on a Chemical Plant, and site rule is no reversing without a banksman. Very sensible.
This one too (applied to the car driver):
221
Large vehicles. These may need extra road space to turn or to deal with a hazard that you are not able to see. If you are following a large vehicle, such as a bus or articulated lorry, be aware that the driver may not be able to see you in the mirrors. Be prepared to stop and wait if it needs room or time to turn.
Edited by Mapmaker on 08/07/2009 at 11:40
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IMO jbif, you missed this one. >> 223 and 221 >>
I quoted the two which I feel are the most relevant in the situation described by the OP:
came around a corner and noticed cars parked on my side of the road, so I pulled out to over take -when I noticed a bus >> reversed , into a car who was so close not to be visible >>
i.e. corner, parked cars, starts overtake, only then notices hazard, then reverses without ensuring path is clear. All against HC rules.
Also, as afar as I can make out, there is no mention that the bus was NOT fully on its side of the road.
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when I noticed a bus, who could have stopped to let me through but didn't, proceeding in my direction
Please give way to the bus! (Or as it has now been reworded.)
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. I don't know whether it's a written rule that traffic descending a hill gives way to traffic ascending - but all else being equal on narrow(ed) roads I do this.
I've never understood why. It's more difficult to hillstart backwards and then reverse to the nearest passing place than it is for the ascending car to slip back to his nearest passing place and then hillstart forwards.
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The way I work it is whoever's closer to the passing space reverses (up or down), unless one party has a large vehicle or cannot get traction to reverse uphill. Never seems to cause problems.
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>>I've never understood why. It's more difficult to hillstart backwards and then reverse to the nearest passing place than it is for the ascending car to slip back to his nearest passing place and then hillstart forwards.>>
You would almost certainly have a different view if you had been the driver of the bus in this instance.
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>>I've never understood why. It's more difficult to hillstart backwards and then reverse to the nearest passing place than it is for the ascending car to slip back to his nearest passing place and then hillstart forwards.>> You would almost certainly have a different view if you had been the driver of the bus in this instance.
That is exactly my point. The bus was apparently coming downhill. I am arguing it is more difficult for any vehicle, especially a bus, to give way downhill. That is why I cannot understand the modern relevance of the advice that going uphill has precedence.
Why would I have a different view had I been the bus driver ? I am supporting him!
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I am arguing itis more difficult for any vehicle especially a bus to give way downhill. That is why I cannot understand the modern relevance of the advice that going uphill has precedence.
Driving downhill one is automatically inclined (sorry for the pun) to slow down or stop, and by rights the brake pedal should be covered; going uphill one is accelerating.
Also see my comments about traction/visibility when reversing.
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I've never understood why. It's more difficult to hillstart backwards and then reverse to the nearest passing place than it is for the ascending car to slip back to his nearest passing place and then hillstart forwards.
In the Old Days cars had a lower reverse gear ratio than 1st. forward.
In the Old Days, some cars could only ascend steep hills backwards (not due to gearing).
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Going between here and Northampton requires that one crosses a sigle track bridge over the river Nene.
Coming from town the approach is reasonably straight, one has a good view of the bridge and with practice the chance to glance for traffic on the other side. Towards town the road takes a 90degree left turn straight on to the bridge, a blind corner. The lie of the road is pretty obvious though and there is a prominent bottleneck sign supplemented by a warning of oncoming traffic in middle of road. Provided you slow to walking pace and creep/peep it's not really much of a challenge.
Yet people regularly barge on from the blind end and expect you to reverse back.
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I've never understood why. It's more difficult to hillstart backwards and then reverse to the nearest passing place than it is for the ascending car to slip back to his nearest passing place and then hillstart forwards.
David Horn sums it up well. Buses and lorries are rear wheel drive. Even a rigid lorry can find it difficult to reverse up a hill; there is also the issue of rearward visibility, invariably better in a car though you wouldn't think so to watch some people.
Most people in rural areas are fully aware of this and act accordingly; the biggest problem I have when this happens at work is tourists who just sit and stare at you, as if expecting you to disappear in a puff of smoke!
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but who is most culpable ............
the bus driver for not stopping
My attitude towards buses is tempered by what's written on the very substantial (possibly non-standard) front bumper of a local bus ~ "He who dares loses".
Edited by L'escargot on 08/07/2009 at 14:22
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Hmmm this has got me thinking.
About that time I hit the bus and wrote off my car. Perhaps it might not be all my fault, it could be his fault for being there in the first place. I mean if it wasnt there I wouldnt have hit it.
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Wotspur i fully understand what you mean by pulling out checking everything and going uphil in a commercial vehicle that has a limited power range and might be problamatic to get going again after trying a hill start,i nearly killed my transit the other week doing the same thing on t junction, loaded and on a very steep incline.
It was always that the uphill commercial vehicle got the right of way for the very reason that a stop start could blow up the clutch or turn a propshaft to twisted liquirice,this still applies but too many people these days want to tear down the middle of the road whilst texting so us as drivers of competance have to make way for their bad driving.
I also understand why you reversed up on the bus appearing and can only give my commiserations that in your haste to do the right thing at the time you hit a moron who parked in your blind spot
Theres still too many people in this world that wouldnt know how to drive a commercial vehicle and grasp its problems if their dear lives depended on it
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... I mean if it wasnt there I wouldnt have hit it....
Mmm, deep philosophical stuff.
Something to do with the time space continuum, as H G Wells might have said.
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Thanks for the replies -most not "Holier than thou" -and as you can see it was early when I posted it -so to clarify a few points -
I came around a very sharp, right hand bend - I clearly saw the parked cars, DANGEROUSLY but not illegally parked -probably should be yellow lined on the bend -
the bus Coming towards me had a clear route and I was having to do the overtaking, and I positioned myself safely to overtake the cars as he had Not moved off from his bus stop when I positioned myself to start the procedure .
When he pulled off I thought without anything CLEAR in my wing mirrors I could safely reverse back, because there was nothing in view.
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the bus Coming towards me had a clear route and I was having to do the overtaking and I positioned myself safely to overtake the cars as he had Not moved off from his bus stop when I positioned myself to start the procedure .
IMHO the bus driver should have seen the oncoming vehicle as part of the checks before moving out, and thus waited until the road ahead was clear.
When I start off, I check behind for overtaking vehicles, forwards for oncoming vehicles, possibly on my side of the road, and a general check for pedestrians, cycles, etc....
I would then indicate to show Ill be moving off, and then, when and only when I was happy it was safe to move off, I would do so.
This was, I thought the correct procedure... least ways it was when I learnt to drive......
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