Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Dynamic Dave
Drivers will be able to sleep, read, work or watch television behind the wheel of their cars at 70mph on the motorway, using technology being developed by scientists.

A system which will lock cars together using sensors and wireless technology, allowing up to ten at a time to cruise in ?car train? convoys, could be unveiled within two years.

Sensors would synchronise each car to follow in the wake of the vehicle directly ahead, with a laser calculating the speed relative to other cars at a rate of 50 times a second.

The only steering and braking would be done by a professional driver at the front of the convoy.

However the system, being developed by Volvo, could lead to a rethinking of the traditional ?braking distances? in the Highway Code.

Volvo expects the cars to drive just 3ft apart in order to stay in contact.

Full article at tinyurl.com/l5g8ua (links to The Sunday Mail, but also mentioned in other papers as well)

Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Rattle
No.

They work on planes because the system is actually quite simple, but on the road there are a lot more variables. Also maitance won't be as strong so sensors will become faulty causing all sorts of incorrect steering. We can't even make fuel injection system sensors reliable long term, yet alone things to make it stop and steer.

However a simple system such as Volvo is suggesting might work as longs as the driver can also have manual input and turn the system off.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Mr X
'Drivers will be able to sleep, read, work or watch television behind the wheel of their cars at 70mph on the motorway"...
They are all ready doing that. You missed out shaving, texting and adjusting make up.
It's not that long a go that an HGV driver was convicted off watching a film on a DVD player sat on his dashboard whilst hurtling down one of our motorways.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - b308
Not sure I'd trust that system, though I'd trust the older "wire in the road in a dedicated lane" one that was around in the 60s - that system is similar to driverless trains and well proven technology... I can think of too many scenarios where things could go wrong in the system shown... especially where overtaking as they show in the diagram!!
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Kevin
>The only steering and braking would be done by a professional driver at the front of the convoy.

Can I have The Stig please? Pretty please??

Kevin...
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - MikeTorque
Autopilot fitted to cars - I certainly wouldn't have one fitted to my car.

What happens when the first car has to do an emergency stop and the following cars all have different tyres and variable braking distances ? The front car would have to know all the technical, mechanic and variable data of every following car and be capable of compensating accordingly to avoid a pile up from behind whilst at the same time trying to avoid a pile up in front. Plus what happens if/when the short-range radio goes down, how many backup systems are they planning to use ? It's a no brainer.

Just look at the technology required for the autopilot on some modern aircraft, not to mention the cost of such a system.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Badwolf
>>Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it?

No. No, no, no, no, no. And if you're still not clear - no. Driving has always, and will always be, an activity that requires constant input by humans (or at least creatures vaguely approximating humans).

I trust computers to allow me to type this post and to make it magically appear on the interweb. I trust computers to process information and print out letters. I do not trust computers to make life or death decisions, and I do not trust computers to think in shades of grey rather than just black and white.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - 1400ted
A very similar system exists and has been running succesfully for many years. The individual vehicles are guided by 2 steel rails and run about 3/4 feet apart joined by a ruddy great big steel buckeye coupler. One man controls the lot.

Probably quite a good system !

ted
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Number_Cruncher
I do not trust computers to make life or death decisions,


Unless you live a sheletered life and don't get out much, then, you do put your trust in such systems.

ABS, adaptive cruise control, brake assist, electronic brake force distribution to give but a few examples where computers do a much better safety critical job than a human ever could.

Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Badwolf
>> I do not trust computers to make life or death decisions
Unless you live a sheletered life and don't get out much then you do put
your trust in such systems.
ABS adaptive cruise control brake assist electronic brake force distribution to give but a few
examples where computers do a much better safety critical job than a human ever could.


I have to disagree there, N_C. My current car has only ABS, and I'm quite happy to put my trust in this as nothing can go horribly wrong if the computer malfunctions.

Another very good reason for not wanting this auto-pilot is that it further isolates the driver from the actual act of driving and turns him into a passenger. What would happen when the driver leaves the motorway and resumes normal driving? How many people would forget that they are now in sole control and end up having a very serious accident?

I stand by my earlier post. Human beings to drive cars, ta very much.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Number_Cruncher
>>nothing can go horribly wrong if the computer malfunctions.

That's not quite as true as you might like to think.

There's a good chance the ABS modulates the pressure to the rear brakes, performing the duty which was undertaken by pressure reducing valves or load sensing vlaves, preventing rear locking and thus prevent a very unsafe condition. i.e., on some cars, ABS performs the function of setting the front / rear brake bias, and is therefore not entirely fail-safe

>>Human beings to drive cars

The most unreliable part in most cars - the roads would be much safer without drivers
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - LikedDrivingOnce
I don't feel comfortable with the Volvo system mentioned up-thread, but if there really was a safe Autopilot system for cars then I would be delighted.

Unfortunately most of my journeys have to be made by car because public transport is not available or feasible. But I don't like driving very much. I can't afford a chauffeur on my wages. Therefore, I welcome any technology that reduces the chore of getting from A-to-B. (Stuff like advanced cruise control, blind-spot warnings, sat-nav etc.)

I love all the technology and engineering involved in the motor car. I love the cars themselves! Its just that I am a harmless weirdo that doesn't enjoy the driving bit.



Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - grumpyscot
I don't believe anyone could develop a system that could over-ride SWMBO sitting in the front seat and mother-in-law in the back. If Ma-in-law says I'm driving too close (i.e. 30 feet behind a car while doing 10mph) then who am I to argue?
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - pmh2
>>>>The only steering and braking would be done by a 'professional driver' at the front of the convoy.<<<<<<


A 'professional driver' - Recruited from the same stock as all those highly qualified HGV 'professionals' that you can find on the motorways today? Driving 3m apart at 56mph, watching videos on the move, maps on the dashboard, overtaking with minimal speed differentials, ........................................... need I go on?


p
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - b308
I tend to feel that the issue here is not the technology as such but the variables... many of us (even some of those against it in this thread) have probably already been in vehicles where such technology is in use, from driverless trains to airplanes that land themsleves... but in both those cases they are in an environment where movement of vehicles is strictly controlled and is therefore very safe... the issue with it being used on public roads is not, I feel, any problems with the tecnology but the random element of other road users to mess things up...

Which is why I said I'd trust it on a seperate, protected, lane like that American system from the 60s, but as Ted said, we are just re-inventing the train!
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Harleyman
A 'professional driver' - Recruited from the same stock as all those highly qualified HGV
'professionals' that you can find on the motorways today? Driving 3m apart at 56mph watching
videos on the move maps on the dashboard overtaking with minimal speed differentials ........................................... need
I go on?


No, but unfortunately you probably will anyway. Your driving is, of course, perfect? ;-)
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Farmer Boy
ABS adaptive cruise control brake assist electronic brake force distribution to give but a few
examples where computers do a much better safety critical job than a human ever could.
Nonsence these are just gimmics. If they offered any significant safety feature it would show in the insurance premiums.


Anyone would think that vehicles fitted with this rubbish didn't have accidents!
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Number_Cruncher
>>Nonsence these are just gimmics

If so, why is the fitting of ABS on cars after 2004 compulsory?

Of course, vehicles with any level of technology will have accidents, that's not the point. The point is whether the number of accidents is acceptable. Zero risk is not possible.


Quite a number of the posts on this thread are rather conservative and reactionary. How the ancestors of such types ever dared to venture out beyond their cave will remain a mystery!
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - gmac
It's coming but not as quickly as people may fear.
Scientists have been working on this since 1977, vehicles are currently managing about 94% automation.
The platoons talked about in the OP link are for increased road usage.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Mr X
There's a plane laying in bits in the Atlantic Ocean thanks to fly by computer. Now there would be a lot more road journey's .... work it out.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - maz64
There's a plane laying in bits in the Atlantic Ocean thanks to fly by computer.


Do you know how many crashes 'fly by computer' has prevented?
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - b308
>> There's a plane laying in bits in the Atlantic Ocean thanks to fly by
computer.


We don't actually know what caused that crash, MrX, unless you and the Daily Mail have suddenly become physcic?
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Cliff Pope
If car number 3 has a tyre blow-out and veers suddenly out of lane, do the others all follow like sheep, or does car number 4 ignore it and just latch onto car number 2?

If car no. 1 gets side-swiped off the road by a foreign lorry, do the others just zoom on, leaderless?
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - CGNorwich
Virtually all aircraft crashes are caused by human error. Automated systems have eliminated the vast majority of aviation accidents. Virtually all car crashes are due to human error or incompetence. It is absolutely certain that a lot of motoring accident could be eliminated if the human control factor was eliminated was reduced. Whether we would like the perceived loss of control is another matter.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Lud
Yawn.

Whether it's done with wires under the road or super-satnav, it won't ever work well enough to prevent frequent breakdowns. Human ingenuity will see to that. It would also slow everything down even more.

Forget it. Cloud cuckoo land.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - the swiss tony
Hmmm I will admit they have improved a bit since the 1st computer piloted aircraft..
remember this? tinyurl.com/ar6p2e
I still dont trust systems like that though.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Armitage Shanks {p}
Speaking as someone who has read all 2255 posts on an aviation thread re the Air France flight I can assure you that failure of the fly by wire/computer system is being considered but only in the sense that the computer(s) may have received erroneous inputs from the air pressure sensors (Pitot Heads). ISTR Mercedes introducing some keep your distance safety braking system and there was an embarrassing and expensive collision when it was first demonstrated to the public. British Airways, the BEA was doing fully automatic landings in their Trident jets, with fare paying passengers on board, in the 60s

Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 23/06/2009 at 21:00

Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - teabelly
No. Just look at how poor microsoft is at writing software with all their billions available to produce high quality operating systems!

Trains already do this. Why make cars like public transport?!

This plan has so many holes it looks like a gouda.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Mr X
There's a thread languishing some where on here about possible hacking in on the HJ site. Npw imagine the fun the hackers would have with a computer controlled transport system and the chaos they could cause on our roads.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - NorfolkDriver
And what happens when we get to Junction 9 of the M11 and I want to turn off to come home to Norfolk but the lead car wants to go further up the motorway to Cambridge?

Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Dynamic Dave
Npw imagine the fun the hackers would have with a computer controlled transport system


You mean like The Italian Job (the original one)?
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - piggy
About twenty years ago i remember reading something in a motoring magazine that "electronic ignition in cars will never be possible,since the reliability required will not be technologicaly possible" Well,well,were there.Who knows what wonders will be possible in the near future? What would a person from the fifties make of our computers,calculators etc. Technology does not stand still,-on the contrary, it is snowballing.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Devolution
There's already a car convoy I can use, that allows me to sleep, read, eat, whatever I want while travelling the same way to the same place as ten or more other people, and with a a presumably professional driver up front.

It's called a bus.

The tech may be around, but I don't think anyone in current generations would give over driving for this. I'm sure the research and development leads to some purposeful application of said technology, but something like this would only be sufficient on a motorway without pedestrians jumping between spaced out cars, and lets face it we already sit in a long stream of moving traffic, but at least I have the option of overtaking or making my own free decision.

So a no from me!
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Nsar
I don't trust other drivers if I see they have satnav fitted so the thought of countless thousands of them blindly trusting another black box makes me shudder.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - MikeTorque
Virtually all aircraft crashes are caused by human error.


You mean commercial aircraft of course, a number are caused by other factors such as birds, lightening, some kind of system failure etc. In the Air Force other factors are causes, such as being shot down or crashed into whilst in combat etc. All the pilots are highly trained & skilled and have responses far faster than the average road user and yet they can still be involved in an incident which may be fatal. Sometimes it's equipment malfunction whilst other times it's pilot errror, albeit they fly a lot faster than the average car moves along a road, however, whatever the cause the outcome can be the same.

If even highly sophisticated aircraft & skilled pilots can't prevent incidents then what chance has the average motorist with a selection of vehicles fitted with an autopilot system that has a countless number of random variables to process at any given moment ?

Expect the unexpected, it will happen sooner or later. For example, what would happen if the leading car was hit by a missile/bomb. With the close proxity of the following cars it's likely the whole convoy would go up in smoke, if they were driving at a safer distance apart most would survive. There are countless other similar scenarios to consider which would all result in a similar outcome. Compute that lot !

Edited by MikeTorque on 24/06/2009 at 00:00

Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Lud
Aircraft fly fast, but usually in vast volumes of empty sky; they turn gently and have time and space to come at their landing runways at the right angle and speed. The possibility of a collision, in the road sense, is extremely rare. If two planes pass within a few hundred yards of each other everyone has kittens and autopilot is brutally overridden.

Need I go into detail on the essential differences between aircraft flying between airports and cars, almost touching each other, wriggling through an organic road system, as they affect this question of autopilot?

It's an amusing science fiction idea. We won't be seeing it on the roads on any scale, and if we do see it at all, in shopping malls and so on, I certainly won't like it.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - MikeTorque
I was thinking more along the lines of fighter aircraft whose pilots are use to flying in close formation. However, when the action starts they fan out, engage in fast turns, go in any direction, fly upsidedown, at times only a few feet separate them and they're traveling at several 100's mph, there hardly seems like enough air space at times due to the distance they quickly cover, autopilot in such situations is useless.

At times whilst driving a car it feels a bit like the above description, only with a higher density of vehicles doing lots of unexpected things at slower speeds, an autopilot system would be disengaged more times than not.
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - pmh2
Remember that it is not that long ago that all cars had a man with a flag walking in front. Autoguided personal transport WILL come to pass. it is not a matter of if, just a matter of when!

The question of 'Would you trust it?' is only applicable at this point in time with currently available technology. Life will be VERY different in 50 or 100 years time!




p
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - Old Navy
I wonder how long it will be untill we are all using fully electical brake systems controlled by an ECU, and hydraulic systems are as rare as full cable brake systems? Steering is going from hydraulic to electrical asistance, OK, with manual back up, but cars have a secondary brake, known as a hand brake.

Edited by Old Navy on 25/06/2009 at 11:04

Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - welshlad
if cars have to travel 3m apart to stay in contact and a car pulls off the motorway from the middle does that mean that the car behind them suddenly becomes the lead driver because they would then be a cars lenght plus 6m from the vehicle in front of them.

and if he does become lead driver what happens if he happened to be taking 40 winks when the car pulls out of the convoy?????????????????
Autopilot fitted to cars. Would you trust it? - welshlad
just occured to me that the same applies for the end of journey if the system automatically disengages and the driver is asleep he has to wake up yawn, stretch and have a good scratch all before hurtling forward the 3ft 'safety distance'!!! and becoming an uninvited passenger in the car in front :-)