I think if some big bloke had taken to punching your granny in the face because she drove too slow, you might not have such a cavalier attitude.
Anyone who thinks its even remotely clever to violently attack another motorist for simply driving too slow, in their opinion, is the lowest form of pond life who quite likely wouldnt support it if they were the victim getting their own face broken. Shameful and frankly offensive to show support for this in any way.
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If i did this for all the mimsers i encounter on the A47/A17 I would have beaten up half of Norfolk/Linconshire by now!
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So that's six people then ! :-)
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Time was, when London still had traffic flow, that the worst mimsers were old black cabs. The drivers didn't give a damn, made their cabs wide and held you up just out of cussedness. If you had a graunch with one hundreds of the carphounds would surge out of the gutter and drains and vie with one another to tell damaging lies about you to old bill, who was usually on their side owing to common class origins.
Some time in the sixties I remember someone got tired of being obstructed by a cab and stabbed the driver to death with a screwdriver. I could sort of see his point, but I can't say I approved. Think of the mess. Think of the hassle. Think of the distress that might be caused if the fellow had any family or friends. Pure barmy idiocy.
Punching someone is just the same on a lower register. Depending on the whole story, if there is one, the fellow in the Ford should be jumped on by the state with both feet.
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Selfish mimser mimsed against the wrong man this time.
So you want a society full of ignorant grunts with shaved heads and tatoos that will lash out at anyone with no real provocation then ?
My opinion is thsat these types of people should all be locked in a compound well away from the decent sectors of our society.
This is just not acceptable no matter how frustrated you get.
Edited by Roly93 on 02/06/2009 at 22:43
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Yet on the other hand, the selfish, couldn't give a monkies, I own the road merchants who trundle along at speeds far below those permitted, even when it is safe to achieve those speeds based on road conditions, weather,movement of other road users, can dictate to the rest of us ?
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this thread looks like it could get interesting ....wonder how long it lasts
Edited by Westpig on 02/06/2009 at 22:50
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There was a time when ' failure to make progress " was a driving test fail. Is it still ?
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"because he thought he was driving too slowly on the A38"
A quote from the article. So where is the evidence of the other driver being a mimser ?
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So where is the evidence of the other driver being a mimser ?
there isn't any
although I do think many slower drivers could do everyone a favour and go out of their way to facilitate faster drivers i.e. make it easier for them to pass, such as pull in tighter to the kerb or leave gaps for overtakes (when the road conditions permit.. i'm thinking 'A' roads).
The Scottish manage it well enough, with great big signs to remind you....why can't the English do likewise? I suspect many slower drivers prefer to ensure that faster drivers conform to their norm...and this causes frustration.
I don't think violence is ever caused for...and just shows how 'low' some people are
Edited by Westpig on 02/06/2009 at 23:19
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Yet on the other hand the selfish couldn't give a monkies I own the road merchants who trundle along at speeds far below those permitted
I was one of those today then presumably, cruising along through a lovely small Northants village in my car at between 25 and 29 or so...it is a 30 limit, but there were people and parked cars, bends and narrows etc.
Should i have been sticking rigidly to the 30 limit then mimser that i am?
The Rover 25 that came up behind jammed close trying to get me to go faster and then couldn't stop when we met a driver coming the other way with parked cars on my side..(no i didn't stop for silly reasons i like my old car too much and that's not the reason why), had to go past me and then reverse from alongside me to let the other car through the space the oncomer was already part through.
Odd thing the Rover driver was a grey haired senior citizen.
I travelled the rest of the country road at 55 to 60 and she seemed content at that, but tried to push me close up the back of any slower traffic we encountered.
Funnily enough all the pushy (one came close to a oncoming security van by overtaking a bicycle just after she'd picked her kid up from Pitsford School) incompetent drivers encountered today were the same sex, it must be the weather..;)
One for Stu Northants...do any school run drivers in that village have any road manners at all?
This road rage rushing to get nowhere knows no age or social constants.
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Clearly the man who carried out this roadrage attack is psychologically unfit to drive and should have his licence revoked on medical grounds.
(assuming he had a licence in the first place)
Edited by Sofa Spud on 02/06/2009 at 23:18
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>>One for Stu Northants...do any school run drivers in that village have any road manners at all?<<
Umm, not many. That bit down near the pub where they park on one side can be fun though as you cant see around the parked cars coming from Moulton direction unless you pull out, by which time your committed and few people seem to approach at less than 40 - makes ive seen many a near miss there. Nice village mind :-)
I think the whole point about the use of violence, is simply the principle of how in supposedly civilised society one deals with differences of opinion and diagreements.
I look to the situation with my sons mum, who allows me just two hours a month with my 3 year old son - since this is by and large a much nastier thing to do to a fellow human being than just holding them up somewhat, what sanctions would the pro-violence lobby here suggest was reasonable?
Running around like a caveman with baseballbat in hand may serve the aggressive male within ( and female Im sure ), but its not proportional to the crime in the majority or cases, nor is it anything other than the decent into anarchy - thats why its illegal.
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If I walked along the pavement for several minutes or more very slowly and wouldn't let someone past and kept stopping and zigzagging, I would worry about getting torn off a strip, barged out the way or worse by a frustrated and offended 'member of the community', especially if I kept looking at them which you can see mimsers doing in their mirrors. We will probably never know the full story, it may not even have happened, there is no evidence to say it did, only hearsay.
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"The offender is described as a white man between 40 and 50 years old, with greying hair and tattoos on both forearms. He is around 6? 2? tall, chubby build and was wearing a white vest and beige knee length shorts."
Kinda says it all really.....
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Sorry, is that the offending mimser or his attacker?
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' failure to make progress "
I was failed for that on my first motorbike test, MrX! There was a section of road that went from 30 to 40 and I only realised when I saw the repeaters by which time it was too late... I went back later and noticed that there was no 40 start sign, so I had good reason not to speed up, but that test was one of those "nervy" ones so I doubt an appeal would have worked... passed next time!
BTW what is more interesting is what people regard as "failure to make progress" or "mimsing"...
I travel on motorways at 60/65 and will use the outer lane of three lane motorways to overtake if I need to... that can really wind up the speed merchants... but is it mimsing...
On a road locally to me many people drive at about 45/50 - the road is good enough for higher speeds and you can overtake... but are they "mimsing"?
Think that its one of those issues that has got worse over the past few years because there are more cars out there and not everyone wants or needs to drive quickly... then there are people who have little or no patience and are aggressive with it...
There's a simple answer to the "aggressive, I want to make fast progress" type - set out earlier!
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We had this debate last year when I tried to organise the mimser pride rally :)
I live in Cornwall, although I hail from Sarth Eeast London.
I do have the requisite grey hair (@56) and when I drive anywhere these days I'm in no particular hurry ... I'm no mimser I might add but - I like to enjoy my drive & take in the Cornish countryside views - is that a crime?
I try not to hold anyone up and yes - I will pull over where I can rather than have someone sitting on my bumper!
I would have put the fear of God up most of you in my younger days with my fire breathing multi cylinder chariots, but now I've "seen the light" and am born again ...
A born again idiot.
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The offender was wearing a vest and tattoos. I think we can all picture the type of individual involved here. Scum of the earth.
Hopefully the next person he does it to will be Shotokan black belt, or simply 6ft 7 and built like a brick lavatory house.
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Justice does sometimes prevail. The Audi driver who cut up, brake tested and blocked in my mates brother got his come uppance. When the Audi road rager got out of his car he met my mates brother, a seriously scary 6ft 3", 20 st tree surgeon(who is also a prop forward and amatuer cage fighter) The Audi road rager regained consciousness nursing a broken nose, as the police turned up. Witnesses said he got what he deserved, and my mates dad is retired Thames Valley Police . No charges were brought.The Audi driver later told police that when he got out of his car and saw the other driver he realised he had made a huge mistake.
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B308 wondered whether driving at 60-65 in the right-hand lane is mimsing.
I'd say no - not of itself anyway. If there's a slower vehicle to overtake in the middle lane then that's what the right lane is for. But there's a separate kind of failure to make progress that can happen at almost any speed: the creeping overtake (frequently with inappropriate use of cruise control) that takes for ever, holds up traffic behind and leaves the vehicle on your left helplessly boxed in. I'm sure B308 does nothing so antisocial but there are plenty who do.
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It was mainly whilst overtaking HGVs that are doing just what you have just described, so I am going faster and not usually a slow overtake...
Having said that I do use cruise and you usually find that its not me that causes the slow overtake but the guy on the inside who can't keep a constant speed and speeds up gradually as you overtake him... so I don't normally have much sympathy for the "boxed in" guy as he is usually the cause of my overtake taking longer than it should... BTW I will speed up in those circumstances, but it does anoy me a bit!
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My OH does a steady 60 on the A14 and slots in behind a lorry about 40 or so metres behind. She much prefers this to the cut and thrust of the outta lane and it makes about ten minutes difference on her Northampton to Norwich trip, yet she saves alotta fuel and arrives feeling very understressed. Her only mistake is listening to Take That. ugh
She does now drive much more swiftly than when she passed her test, some may remember my post about it, but she sticks ridgidly to the speed limit or a little below and has now learnt that skill of completely ignoring the person behind trying to goad her into going faster than legal. Ive told her to actually slow down at potential overtake places so they can get by more easily as I do it - better they drive off into the distance ( and possible a ditch somewhere ) than sit on your back bumper.
Mimsing seems to be a rather silly term as it just describes irresponsible driving, but its attached to driving slowly by people who like to drive fast so they can complain that anyone driving slowly is wrong. Its all down to personal opinion anyway, one mans mimser is another mans responsible motorist. I dont race around but I on occasion come across slow drivers, but I dont hate them, I simply sit back and wait for a safe opportunity to pass and do so. Ive come across very few who actively try to prevent you passing, perhaps a handful in ten years.
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Highway Code.
General advice rules: 144-158.
147.1 : Try to be understanding if other road users cause problems; they may be inexperienced or not know the area well
147.2 : Be patient; remember that anyone can make a mistake
What if the other driver assaulted was genuinely lost/confused?
tinyurl.com/pk4yk6
More should do this!
147.3 Do not allow yourself to become agitated or involved if someone is behaving badly on the road. This will only make the situation worse. Pull over, calm down and, when you feel relaxed, continue your journey
Edited by Tron on 03/06/2009 at 11:08
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>>I travel on motorways at 60/65 and will use the outer lane of three lane motorways to overtake if I need to... that can really wind up the speed merchants... but is it mimsing...
Yes, especially if you are holding someone else up - doubly so if you are holding someone up but are unaware of it.
>>On a road locally to me many people drive at about 45/50 - the road is good enough for higher speeds and you can overtake... but are they "mimsing"?
Yes, especially if they are holding someone else up. If they pulled in when a queue formed, then that mitigates a little.
If the conditions are good, then, you should make sure that you don't hold people up, allowing those who wish to travel faster to do so.
When conditions, traffic, pedestrians, etc, etc, dictate a lower safe speed, that's not mimsing at all. Owing to their lack of awareness, this is where the mimser probably drives too quickly.
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When conditions traffic pedestrians etc etc dictate a lower safe speed that's not mimsing at all. Owing to their lack of awareness this is where the mimser probably drives too quickly.
Oh yes. That classic type of driver who will do 45 mph in NSLs and then continue to do the same 45 mph through villages. They're everywhere.
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NC has it right. Low speed alone doth not a mimser make.
When you can't for the life of you tell what a car in front is doing in urban traffic, which way it is going to go at the next junction, which lane it thinks it's in and so on, that car is most likely being driven by a mimser.
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I've just remembered another reason for thinking a driver may be a mimser: if he or she criticises 'the speed merchants' by accusing them of tailgating and flashing. Press-on drivers of the better sort don't do those things. But mimsers can't tell the difference.
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Number Cruncher gets my vote. His key term is awareness. Many drivers (both mimsers and non-mimsers) seem blissfully unaware of what is going on elsewhere on the road, in particular behind them. I think it's that which I find irritating more than mimsing itself.
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>>I travel on motorways at 60/65 and will use the outer lane of three lane motorways to overtake if I need to... that can really wind up the speed merchants... but is it mimsing... Yes especially if you are holding someone else up - doubly so if you are holding someone up but are unaware of it.
Why NC?
I am legally overtaking someone - I am not going too slow and I don't stay out there but get back out of that lane asap, so I am only temporarily blocking the outside lane, I am making progress as much as they are... why should I have to wait until the lorry manages to get past the other (and slow down myself) in the process... as long as I do not force someone to brake hard by cutting out there I am neither mimsing or breaking the law... or has it changed so that you have to be doing a minimum of 70 to use the outside lane and am I a mimser for daring to do less than 70??
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>>Why NC?
Because you have picked your speed lower then the speed limit, and you aren't changing this even if you hold someone up.
Had you said, I normally will do 60/65, but, when I need to use the third lane, I speed up to 70 so as not to become a hindrance to faster traffic, then, I would have said no, that's not mimsing.
>>am I a mimser for daring to do less than 70??
Only if you hold others up.
I admit, there are times when I'm not in the mood to drive quickly - typically on smaller roads in nice areas of countryside. However, when a car catches me up, I will not hinder it - I can't abide the thought. I will pull into to let it past.
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>>Because you have picked your speed lower then the speed limit, and you aren't >>changing this even if you hold someone up.
I am no more a mimser than the guy who does 70 and uses the outside lane to overtake someone and slows up the guy doing 80, and yes, on certain motorways (the M40 for instance), I've seen plenty of that as well... I will do my utmost not to cause others to have to brake, but at the end of the day if I pull out and they have enough room to slow down safely before they catch me up then thats not mimsing.
It strikes me that the attitude that you should not use the outside lane to overtake if you are doing 65 or less and are therefore likely to slow down the faster cars is just as bad as the mimser... "thats my bit of the road and its for fast vehicles only!" as oppose to "the speed limit is 60 and I'm in no rush, so tough pink fluffy dice!" - I'm glad I'm neither a mimser or a speeder!
Its worth saying that those who decide to travel quickly should also be aware of their surroundings and what is going on in front of them... most heavy braking I've seen on motorways seems to be from those who decide to travel at speed but do not look in front of them to anticipate what is likely to happen... two HGVs overtaking each other and slower traffic using the third lane to overtake them... they then have to brake late simply due to inattention... and their mates behind them, having even less room then brake even harder... I'd say that those sorts are just as bad, if not worse than the mimser...
Edited by Webmaster on 04/06/2009 at 01:42
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Obviously - Driving slowly and mimsing are two different things according to the luddite concise english dictionary ... A mimser is totally oblivious to all other road users, A mimser will wait at the Hyde Park roundabout (all day) until someone lets him/her out,
A mimser will pull out on you from a junction slowing you down to his/her 25MPH,
A mimser is usually found at the head of a long line of traffic ... ok, ok, - I can be guilty of that 'offence' occaisionally (hehe!)
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I am not a slow driver, I drive at or maginally over the speed limits, but I am never in a hurry. If I encounter a slow driver, I just hang back, save fuel and chill. A safe place to pass will come along eventually. I love watching the suicide jockeys trying to get past half a dozen cars.
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Thanks Perro, thats my understanding of a mimser... and unlike what some might think it does not apply to every driver that cruises the motorways at 60/65 or side roads at 50...
Certainly on side roads the issue is not usually the mimser but the following cars who would go faster but don't know how to overtake and don't leave sufficient gap so that others can....
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This should clear up the matter once and for all?
It is a UK Police forum so shouldn't pose any competition to HJ.co.uk
www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk:80/lofiversion/index.php?...l
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Excellent link perro, great reading! Made me chuckle.
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>>> Excellent link perro, great reading! Made me chuckle. <<<
Hehe! me too - straight from the Horses mouth (so to speak!)
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I get the impression that posters such as Lud & NC are conflating (..maybe even, unconsciously..) the classical defintion of mimser with a more generalised notion that mimsing is anyone who ever drives below the legal maximum, when conditions could permit driving at legal v-max.
This does seem a curious stance: as well as scotching any notion of personal freedom, it would also be impracticable & quite possibly dangerous. There are people of all abilites in the world, not only driving, but doing every task & action in every walk of life - should we all show such intolerance to those who don't quite match up to our notion of how they're going about things?
I personally take pleasure in a 'good' overtake - I can practice whatever skill I have & make progress. If the situation is one where it's not safe or useful to overtake I won't.
It's often the case that traffic conditions mean that to really make progress you'd have to continually overtake, mile after mile, to gain any measureable time.
It's always a good idea to plan your activities so that rushing isn't necessary & be conservative about travel times especially - much better for the heart rate (..and possibly alot more too!..).
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>>I get the impression that posters such as Lud & NC are conflating (..maybe even, unconsciously..) the classical defintion of mimser with a more generalised notion that mimsing is anyone who ever drives below the legal maximum, when conditions could permit driving at legal v-max.
Not quite Woodbines.
Driving below v-max, as you put it, is fine as long as you're aware of other traffic, and allow them to make progress. Driving at a reduced speed (without good reason) with blatant disregard or even ignorance of the hindrance caused to other traffic is classic mimsing.
So, Robin, driving on a space saver at 50 wasn't mimsing. The driver slowing while passing through a village isn't mimsing. B308, as he is aware of other traffic, and clears the outside lane quickly after his overtake isn't mimsing if he doesn't hinder anyone.
As I mentioned above, I will sometimes drive slower then the limit, BUT, I get out of the way to allow faster traffic through, and if the road is so busy that this becomes frequent, I'll go faster. You'll never see a queue being held up by me!
Edited by Number_Cruncher on 03/06/2009 at 16:54
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Am I a Mimser?
There I was tootling along on the M1 the other day quite happily at 50mph in the inside lane. Didn't take long before a latter day Knight of the Road was on my tail giving me the benefit of the thousands of watts of light on the front of his 'rig' and letting me hear his lovely air-horns. I ignored him of course and let him past.
Classic mimsing perhaps? Well not really. I had just had a blow out and had to fit the dreaded skiiny spare which is limited to 50mph. Off at the next junction and straight to the nearest tyre place.
So, just because someone is going slowly does not mean they are 'mimsing'
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Its also worth noting that small engined cars cannot speed up after bends and such anywhere near as quickly as your average TD Mondeo, so whereas in my car, it takes a good 1/4 mile to get from 30-60, your Mondeo man may well be wondering why its taking so long when all he has to do is squeeze the loud pedal for 4 seconds.
If you have a vehicle that doesnt handle very well this can also mean you slow down far more than others would with their grippier chassis set-ups.
There are so many factors to consider and it would be quite unreasonable to expect someone to drive their car much closer to its limits than they are comfortable doing so, just so the person behind can make progress at the rate they are used to as different cars have different abilities.
Just imagine you are flying along in your Mondeo and someone comes up behind in their Elise - you gonna speed up or pull in to let them past? Doubt it.
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>>you gonna speed up or pull in to let them past? Doubt it.
I'm going to do what I can to help them get safely past.
Firstly by being aware of their approach.
Secondly, by making sure I can position myself to give them the best visibility of the road ahead - which indicates to them that I am aware of their presence, and that I don't intend to hinder them.
Usually, that's enough.
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a mimser in my definition is someone who drives slowly AND does so ignorant of other road users, either knowingly or not
if you and your missus were to be climbing a single file mountain path, marvelling at the view and bemoaning your lack of fitness....and a party of whippersnappers caught you up....would you carry on regardless oblivious to their being there, or make them wait behind you, perhaps secretely thinking 'hah, that'll slow you down'...or alternatively would you make the effort to let them past, allowing them to make their progress..and you make yours at your pace
that's the issue with many slower car drivers...
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Just imagine you are flying along in your Mondeo and someone comes up behind in their Elise - you gonna speed up or pull in to let them past? Doubt it.
why ever not pull in or indicate to let them past....a good driver would do....many people do so in Scotland on the single track roads, it's the accepted norm...it's only the thick, usually English, tourists that ignore it...(and i'm English before anyone says i'm ...ist)
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Reading the press report in the OP, can I suggest another possible side to the incident?
The victim was not a mimser at all, but a competant driver proceeding at the maximum speed the limit or conditions would allow. The aggressor was a dangerous psycopath with a long history of violent assault going back to his youth, who regards such dreadful acts of disrespect like getting in his path or looking at him in the wrong way as being deserving of a savage beating.
I'd say that has more chance of being the case than a member of the IAM being driven to frustration by someone pootling along at 25 in a 60.
Edited by Robin Reliant on 03/06/2009 at 17:44
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Indeed, the "mimser" could have been travelling at the legal limit, but this was too slow for the aggressor.
While fisticuffs have never resulted, I've had cars behind get angry, and when I have the audacity to driving a vintage car thus, can be overtaken dangerously. All I can hope is they meet a tree coming the other way at 60mph and not some poor innocent!
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Remember that the word "mimser" was the choice of the OP. There is nothing in article to suggest that the victim was driving slower than he could have been.
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Violent road rage assault >>
There was another similar recent case in Cornwall witnessed and reported here by Tron:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=74...8
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It is significant that NC and Westpig, both press-on drivers, expect some vehicles to be driven very slowly and also, more importantly, expect some vehicles to be going faster than they are and coming up behind.
Like them I find many drivers far too stately and slack-jawed in their progress; like them I expect to be overtaken sometimes. Are faster drivers necessarily any good? Certainly not. Some of them make heavy weather of getting past even with a bit of help. But you don't want them hanging about over your shoulder do you? You want them to charge off into the distance and annoy someone else. Decent quick drivers in rapid cars are another matter. They're there, then gone, with never a dodgy moment. Does your heart good to see it.
And like NC and Westpig, I don't gesticulate, tailgate or flash lights when baulked by a genuine mimser. I just swear to myself and nip cautiously past when I can.
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or flash lights when baulked by a genuine mimser.
There is a circumstance in which I will give a couple of light flashes: when I have been following a slower car down the outide lane of a dual carriageway long enough to become impatient. Sometimes such people don't often look in their mirrors and haven't noticed you. Then a flash will remind them that you are waiting patiently to get past.
Sometimes though nothing will shift the so-and-sos. They are morons insisting on their rights. You have to wait for a roundabout and pass them one side or the other, with care. You have to bide your time and think of other things. You have to avoid getting heated.
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I had an odd passive-aggressive experience on the M5 yesterday.
Sat on cruise at about 75 (indicated, of course) I was coming up on a CLOG. I resisted the temptation to swing past, and moved from lane 1 to 3 in good time to pass on the right. About 100 m past, I came back into lane 2 (rather than 1) as I was catching a truck.
The CLOG booted it, gestured at me as he came past, then braked in lane 3 to come level with traffic in lane 2 and block me from passing for a few seconds. Very odd, as as far as I could tell I'd not done anything to aggravate him.
I kept my distance, and just resumed my cruise once he pulled over. He didn't catch my eye as I passed.
Seemed like a waste of time to me, but hopefully he felt better...
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And CLOG means ?
Centre Lane Owners Group
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Oh ? Sorry I was a subscriber to the FLOG for so many years I'd forgotten that there were other groups.
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Sticker on car:
Go on, take a day off from being Mr Angry.
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odd passive-aggressive experience on the M5
Very odd, as as far as I could tell I'd not done anything to aggravate him.
They're weird those, aren't they? A bit mad, and dangerous. If they caused an accident they would immediately start spouting surrealist lies in all directions.
When I was a minicab driver I was double parked waiting for a punter on the edge of Clapham Common, in a one-way with parked cars both sides. A car stopped before the gap I had left and hooted insistently. I got out. The driver asked me to move as the gap was too small. As it was at least a foot wider than his car I said I didn't need to. ''It's all right for you,' he whined. 'You haven't got a new car.' I told him he had plenty of room and got back into my car. He drove through the gap, moved into the middle of the carriageway and stopped, waiting I suppose for me to want to pass. But my punter hadn't come out yet, while several irate cars wanted to pass this idiot. They hooted for a while, then a couple of them got out and advanced meaningly on this half-witted and self-important twit. So then he scarpered, not very quickly. Prat.
PU: doesn't CLOG mean Centre Lane Owners' Group or something like that?
Edited by Lud on 03/06/2009 at 20:25
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As has been pointed out by numerous posters - there is nothing in the news item to suggest that the rr victim could be suspected of mimsering - just that he was driving slowly but ... there are usually always 2 sides to every story!
I found it very interesting to read the Police forum thread I posted earlier, but then the police are Human, all too Human too.
I have been a 'press on' merchant in the past, but now I have no need whatsoever to drive with haste but ... I have certainly learnt a lot from this and the Police thread and intend to take it 'on board'.
In a way I find it sad that I and others have to drive faster than we want to satisfy the 'press on' merchants, but then its not an ideal world - is it.
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