...I'm still bitter and always will be...
Think I would be, too.
As the OP says, some bikers use A and B roads purely for the thrill of riding at high speed.
I don't like the way they appear instantly in my mirror and treat overtaking as a slalom, causing me to nervously touch the brake as they cut in, usually far earlier than they need to.
That sort of riding, or driving for that matter, is suitable only for the racetrack.
Wouldn't matter so much if it were rare, but you will see sports bikers riding like that every weekend from about now onwards.
Apologies for the rant, which is aimed only at irresponsible bikers.
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I do think bike because I don't want a third of a tonne of metal plus rider hitting me at 60+ mph. If they are behind I let them pass.
It's our first trip on the A65 this weekend - the weather is due to be fantastic, so I'm prepared for the usual demonstrations of how not to ride a motorcycle, but they'll be mixed with those who can't drive cars properly either. I'm ready for them all.
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Apologies for the rant which is aimed only at irresponsible bikers.
It's a justified rant.
I had one do similar to what you describe to me 5 years ago (I know exactly when it was as my wife was pregnant and in the car with me at the time), although this one appeared on my inside up a motorway entry slip (and no, there was no time for me to move out a lane as he was going so fast that by the time I'd checked outside me he'd gone). He sped up my inside, flew in to the distance and around a gentle bed to the right, so fast that his bike "tankslapped" him, he hit the anchors and flew many feet into the air, to be deposited on to the hard shoulder, luckily for him and everyone else. I stopped, called the emergency services and got out to tend to him. Thought he was a goner but he started moaning. Then, another biker appeared on foot from further up the road. It was his sister. They had been racing eachother. His bike ended up in the central reservation, which incredibly is the only one (I think) in the UK consisting of trees and bushes - A329M in Reading. How no other vehicles became involved I'll never know.
He survived, but I hope they both changed their ways.
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They can also sometimes "appear suddenly" because the driver is too engrossed in listening to the radio/telephone/passenger, reading, applying makeup, looking at maps, etc., etc.
They can also suddenly appear because they are going too fast, but as both a driver and motorcyclist, it is usually one of the first reasons.
The reason for the 'Think Bike ' set of adverts is because of the way the brain processes what the eyes see, not because of any perceived bias towards bikers!
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...They can also sometimes "appear suddenly" because the driver is too engrossed in listening to the radio/telephone/passenger, reading, applying makeup, looking at maps, etc., etc....
True, although glances in the mirror tend to be timed on the assumption another vehicle will take a second or to appear/ close up behind you.
First glance, it's in the distance, second glance, it's behind you.
A speeding bike - or a speeding anything else - just appears behind you between glances, which is startling.
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True although glances in the mirror tend to be timed on the assumption another vehicle will take a second or to appear
Just remember there is always somebody going faster than you!
I was poodling down a French B road last August on the Triumph at an indicated, erm, rather fast. When speeding, one tends to keep a watch on the mirrors - just in case.
All of a sudden there was a big white fairing 3 feet behind me and my heart missed a beat.
Turned out to be a big Jap. tourer going about 30mph faster than me.
I always make a point, when 'pressing on' on a bike to slow down a bit before overtaking a car - otherwise it puts the willies up 'em!
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If Mr "A. Blokey" ... had thought "Bike" on the morning of 27th May 1983 when reversing his car out of his driveway ...
Without more details of your personal loss, Alanovich, I can't be sure, but I don't see why Thinking Bike rather than any other vehicle would have made a difference. I presume Someone reversed out of a blind exit; also that you mean motorbike, not push-bike. But my interpretation is that the reversing was done without looking - not much to do with a Bike, as such?
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If you look twice and look for bikes, I think you would spot anything else at the same time anyway, as bikes tend to be small and fast.
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But my interpretation is that the reversing was done without looking - not much to do with a Bike as such?
The bloke who killed Dad said he looked but didn't see him, and tried to imply Dad was speeding. The police investigation of the scene proved that Dad was within the limit (30). If the bloke was telling the truth, and he did indeed bother looking, then he didn't "think bike", sounds to me like he was looking for cars.
Once he had heard the "crash" caused by hitting Dad's bike, he didn't know what had happened as the bike was over the other side of the road and out of his sight. He was driving an Austin Princess, and the high rear end was hiding the view of the bike from the driver's seat. Unfortunately, Dad was lying just behind his rear wheel, and the driver carried on reversing as if nothing had happened because he still couldn't see anything. Once he felt the "bump" of driving over Dad's chest killing him instantly, he decided to stop and have a look. This person at no time "thought bike", I promise you.
All I wish for these days is that the person involved has met natural justice himself by now.
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Missed the edit. Meant to add that yes, Dad was on a motorbike. A green Kawasaki 600cc job, with a big white faring/windshield type arrangement on the front. Whatever they're called. Worst thing is that the bike was almost totally unscathed, and we sold it on very easily with only minor scratching if I recall correctly.
Edited by Alanovich on 03/04/2009 at 14:02
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what about that 'think bike' advert on TV.
They must think everyone is thick.
If you compare the two video clips (where the driver looks up and down the road) you can clearly see that the camera is at a different angle and that the driver acts differently (looking left then right).
I agree that we should have adverts that remind people but an advert like this is just branding everyone thick.
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Why think bike?
Motorcyclists make up just 1% of traffic on roads but account for 26% of deaths and serious injuries in crashes on the county's roads, up from 18%
As cars have become safer, drivers make up for it by driving closer, using mobiles etc - but bikes haven't become safer and as the most vulnerable road users end up worse off in any collision.
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I do not think that the "think bike" message puts motorcyclists on a pedestal or condones irresponsible behaviour but simply reminds us to take a second glance glance for cyclists or bikers.
I have two biker friends who suffered severe injuries in strikingly similar accidents. In both cases, while riding on urban roads a car made a right turn in to their path. The courts decided the bikers were blameless and awarded considerable damages and in both cases the drivers said that they had not seen them.
We share the roads with motorcycles, bicycles and horses and all of us should obey the law and the advice of the Highway Code. As car drivers we have certain advantages: there are more of us so there is an awareness of our presence; we are generally more visible; we have seat belts, airbags and a protective shell so we will almost always come out better in an accident.
Let's ignore the minority who behave badly but look out for everyone. Surely it is better to completely avoid an accident than to be righteously involved in one?
alfalfa
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Well said alfalfa
I do try to make myself + bike visible - my riding gear is brightly coloured - as is my bike.
I think some bikers - especially the fashion consious - ride in stealth mode. naked black bikes and black gear do not help visibility.
I got a very dramatic illustration of this when such a bike and rider was hit while in the middle of a group of riders.
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I've ridden bikes in the past and I am sympathetic towards their riders and try to consider them as much as possible on the road.
The last post, mentioning "a group of riders" highlights a major problem. These groups are to be found on the bikers routes and in a few cases are informally racing. Coping with their repetitive overtaking and other major errors is a huge distraction for even the most skilled motorist who really just wants them safely out of his way and does not want an accident.
Filled with adrenalin, these bikers lose sight of their duties to other road users and accidents happen.
I don't have a solution, just mentioning an obvious problem.
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Coping with their repetitive overtaking and other major errors is a huge distraction for even the most skilled motorist who really just wants them safely out of his way and does not want an accident.
Coping with being overtaken is a distraction?
I can see that bikes going past may cause a shock to inexperienced or inattentive drivers, but I dont see that being overtaken is distracting.
I am always trying to tell my OH that she should drive in a consistent manner. Any of this touching brakes, veering around, etc creates uncertainty. And I am a firm believer that uncertainty/ambiguity causes accidents because of the different expectations of different road users.
If someone is coming fast behind me I have no problem with them overtaking - but the onus is on them to choose their moment. Yes I will pull across to the left if the road is narrow and/or oncoming traffic - but I try to be deliberate in that so that they know it is a deliberate move rather than brownian motion.
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Thanks for your story, Alanovich. My own father came off his Norton (I think it was) in the 1930s, avoiding a small girl who had been looking in a shop window but suddenly ran across the road. Father got up and continued, but began to suffer chest pains and was diagnosed with cracked vertebrae some weeks later. He had some bone grafts and was given 6 months, but thanks to a good surgeon managed 60 years; but only after spending 18 months on his back in hospital. Lucky for me I suppose.
But we can all be surprised by the unexpected while driving; people on fast bikes come off worst. So while we must all keep a sharp lookout, bikers run higher risks whatever happens.
Edited by Andrew-T on 03/04/2009 at 20:09
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'An 81-year-old motorcyclist has died following a crash with a car in the south Devon resort of Torquay..
The rider of the Honda SH50 bike, who lived in Torquay, was taken to hospital with serious head injuries and died early on Friday.'
tinyurl.com/czefgm
Can it really be safe to be riding a powerful motorbike at this age ? I am thinking about reaction speeds, mobility of joints and muscles, eyesight.
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...of the Honda SH50 bike...
Think he was on a moped.
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Can it really be that Mr X, who regularly parades the views of an extreme reactionary and thinks a Honda 50 is a 'powerful motorbike', is himself a whippersnapper with muscles of steel and the reactions of a cyborg F1 driver?
I think he should be sent out immediately In the South London rush hour on a 1-litre Kawasaki superbike racer with a sticky throttle cable, without a helmet. That would learn him.
Edited by Lud on 03/04/2009 at 22:53
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SH50 a powerhouse! Unfortunately your leap into print has preceded your understanding of the facts. Again. But I doubt you will be deterred.
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It take it it is more than capable of doing 70mph or more. Bit of a difference between sitting in a car and controlling it at that speed and riding a bike that requires some what more strength and agility.
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It take it it is more than capable of doing 70mph or more.
that would be about double the speed a modern moped can do....
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the following review of the SH50 (from a Google search) states it didn't need to be restricted to 30mph...because it was so slow anyway
The Honda SH50 City Express is a good first moped or to use as cheap city transport. Today they are cheap to purchase (can be had in reasonable condition for under £200) economical and reliable. Where the Honda scores well in practical categories it is not the most desirable machine. Its styling is dated, the handling is hardly sporty and the performance is somewhat dire. It is worth noting that the bike never needed to be restricted to 30mph as it was naturally slow. There is a company called technigas who make a sports exhaust system which should improve performance noticibly. One thing to check is that the exhaust and the exhaust port are not clogged with carbon deposits. This seriously limits performance and can be simply sorted. Other than this the bike requires minimal maintenence other than washing and keeping topped up with 2-stroke oil. My machine fairs well to being used well in bad weather conditions. The fairing provides some weather protection and the machine does not suffer badly from corrosion due to winter salt. All in all the SH50 is a good hard wearing moped perfect for a 16 year old with a CBT or someone who only wants to get around a town or city. Just don't expect to impress anyone on it.
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Don't keep digging, Mr X, just cough the job.
Slight foul-up - we've all done it.
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I have had a number of 'moments' on my bike, when car drivers haven't noticed me, despite riding with a white helmet and the headlight constantly on. Fortunately, as I always ride expecting it to happen, i've always managed to dodge it... for now?
..although the E Class Merc driver o/s Brent Town Hall came the closest to getting me, when he did a sudden 'U' turn from his lane, just as I was coming past...i bounced off his front wing in to an oncoming lane, where a Transit builders van with ladders on the roof did an amazing swerve at the same time I was desperately trying to do likewise back to my side of the road....never actually fell off, but don't know how
.. then there was the young lady in the VW Polo who came to a T junction, stopped...looked right at me...then pulled out right in front of me as I was riding along a main road....my emergency stop finished right next to her drivers window, where she had her head in her hands screaming... thinking it was all 'curtains' no doubt
I see no reason why a safety campaign aimed at dozy drivers shouldn't continue, to give motorcyclists half a chance....and if some motorcyclists ride like clowns at other times, that's not an excuse for some car drivers to 'give up' their own responsibilities to other more vulnerable road users
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In my inept way the thread title was intended to highlight the fact that "Think bike" roadside signs are aimed at everyone except motorcyclists. My suggestion is that the signs should be reworded to be applicable to motorcyclists as well. Multi-wheeled vehicle drivers deserve the respect and consideration of motorcyclists just as much as the other way round.
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Wonder whatever happened to motorcycle airbags? I think Honda developed one a few years ago, in tests it seemed to be a lifesaver in the car pulling out of a side road scenario
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aimed at everyone except motorcyclists ... the signs should be reworded to be applicable to motorcyclists as well
There are a number of signs on high-incident routes simply reading "Think!".
The "Think Bike" signs only tend to be found at roundabouts with a history of motorcycle collisions and on roads such as the aforementioned bike magnet routes. On holidays and high days the police are to be found on such routes mounting high-profile safety campaigns aimed specifically at educating bikers on how to stay alive by respecting their machine, the law and all other road users. I'm sure they aren't out to spoil anyone's fun, rather to ensure more bikers get home at the end of each day.
Dave TD.
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in tests it seemed to be a lifesaver in the car pulling out of a side road scenario
Not half as much a lifesaver as better observation by the car driver!
This makes more sense than fitting airbags to bikes;
tinyurl.com/c7ddu6
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