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R75, I'm no fan of excessive regulation, but surely 7 hours training per year isn't a huge burden?
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Generally, I find the standard of bus and lorry driving quite good, compared to that of cars and vans - but when you do get a bad one it stands out more.
I remember once I was approaching a long uphill stretch on and A road where there were roadworks traffic lights. These lights changed to red well before I got to them, so I stopped, only to be met with blairing horn and a load of abuse from the artic driver behind. Anyway, when the lights changed, I accelerated away, while the lorry made a slow start on the climb uphill. At the top there was a layby, so I stopped, found a pen and piece of paper and, as the lorry passed about a minute later, I got its number, making sure the driver saw me writing it down. When I got home, I phoned the relevant transport company to report the driver!
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>Met with blairing horn ... <
I like that concept. Might Gordon B be interested?
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That's so funny
Edited by Pugugly on 14/09/2008 at 00:23
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R75 I'm no fan of excessive regulation but surely 7 hours training per year isn't a huge burden?
For an owner driver it is, not only is he loosing a days revenue but he is also having to pay the £3-4-500 days training rate - not that the rates have been released by the training providers yet!!!! Only the larger companies would benefit from economies of scale. And that is aside from those of us who hold vocational licences but use them maybe only once or twice a year, we would have to pay for the training ourselves and it would not be viable to do.
Also many operators will just put staff on short term contracts or make them pay for the training themselves. This scheme only benefits the RHA and FTA. it is like asking an intensive care nurse to go on a course to learn how to answer a phone!! Yes they need to know how to do it, but do they really need a days training on how to do it!!! Look up the modules and see for your self, they are so general it is a joke.
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As from this year for PCV drivers and next for LGV drivers they will need additional training in the form of 35 hours over 5 years to gain a drivers CPC (certificate of professional competence) without it their licences will not be valid. This will take an awful lot of experienced but part time drivers out of the pool. It will also mean many smaller companies will not be able to afford to train their own drivers so will recruit those who may have gained the CPC from elsewhere
I'm in that position having been driving PCV part time ftom '91. every weekend and all holidays for many of the years. Despite having to quit my full time job I'll have to think seriously about renewing the license next year as the cost of the course will probably make it not worth it.
Most of the small companies around here, and I dare say elsewhere, rely on the part timers to do school runs etc. result: greater shortage of drivers.
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In response to a few of the comments here- apologies if it seems I was irate after a single incident. My wife and I have both said on many occassions that the driving standards of the local bus company are pretty low.
Normally though they are pretty minor to me- on our estates the buses ignore the T-Junctions and pull out of side roads into oncoming traffic. As all the junctions and bends on the estate are single lane as traffic calming measures it means oncoming traffic has to give way. Not normally a problem, let the bus pass, very short delay and put it down to daft town planning.
In this case I had no escape route- reversing meant going back about 150- 200 yards, round a blind bend- and nowhere to go on either side. The bus only slowed down at the last minute, and it was very unsettling having a 53 seat bus coming at me on the wrong side of the road.
My main concern was that if this was typical of the driving standards of the bus drivers then it was only a matter of time before there was a serious accident.
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A thought - if you had "frozen" like some people do and just stopped without pulling in I wonder what he'd have done? From the position of your car it would have been obvious that he was in the wrong! And if he had carried on and hit you I suspect he could have lost his licence.... As I said before a classic case of "I'm bigger than you" driving...
Edited by b308 on 14/09/2008 at 09:42
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? From the position of your car itwould have been obvious that he was in the wrong! And if he had carried
If only things worked like that, 30 years ago i was stationary in traffic in a local town, when a local bus came out of the bus stop and scraped the whole of the side of the bus along the front wing of my land crab.
Well the chap in the car behind gave me his details and told me he would be glad to be my witness, he was furious with the bus driver.
Well 6 months later my insurance renewal comes in and lo and behold i have lost my NCB, i phoned to query the error and was informed that as they also insured the local authority bus company they had called it knock for knock, (not happy), despite my witness.
They even suggested i could only get my no claims reinstated by taking the bus company to court and winning my case.
Needless to say a young married chap with children and mortgage and just about able to afford to run a hand painted land crab rushed out to take them to the high court...;)
Probably a little easier now, but i wouldn't want to put it to the test.
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Here is the recent Manchester story. Two bus company bosses were jailed for lying to an inquiry over a fatal accident caused by one of their drivers:
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1056933_dea...d
"They found that the Polish driver of the vehicle involved in the collision which killed Mr Pilling had been working for 19 consecutive days - six more than the legal limit.
They also uncovered that one driver had been working for 31 days without a 24-hour break. The inquiry found that many drivers were going without training. The firm had undergone a huge expansion in 2005 and employed high numbers of Polish drivers. Double decker buses are not seen in Poland and most had not driven one before."
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Double decker busesare not seen in Poland and most had not driven one before."
My licence, in common with many others was single deck only
overnight it changed to single and double deck. No big deal as I'd driven both when training including the 'happy wanderer' (Fleetline)
double deckers were only about three and a half feet higher than single IIRC a leyland Leopard was 11 ft odd and doubles are under 14 ft 6 in. modern single decker coaches are nearly as high as double deckers.
sadly it's standard to see the top front nearside corner of a double dinged and repaired due to overhanging trees on our roads. On some routes you learn where not to pull in to the left due to clonks and squeals from the tourists on the top deck.
Playing 'spot the tourist' was fun on a PD1 the locals knew about the leather seats but the tourists did not and often ended up on the floor after a sharp corner.
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sadly it's standard to see the top front nearside corner of a double dinged and repaired due to overhanging trees on our roads.
This should be a problem of the past as i and my cohorts try our best to trim the trees up with your new cars, we aim to please..;);)
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The one thing that gets me how [buses] will give way to each other and no one (no, not even taxi's) else.
No one else, ESPECIALLY not taxis! In fact when I drove cabs they (bus drivers) used to actively baulk us whenever possible.
I once parked just before a marked bus stop to pick up an elderly lady, a bus pulled into the bus stop and scuffed the o/s/f corner of my (then brand new) Skoda while I was putting the lady's shopping in the boot - she was getting in the n/s/r door at the time and it rocked the car and quite upset her. The bus driver started driving off as I ran to his door, then when stopped him and asked for his name or driver number told me "look on the front of the pfd bus!" and drove off. The depot manager sounded as though mine wasn't the first comment he'd had on that particular driver that day.
Edited by Webmaster on 21/09/2008 at 13:34
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"Knock for knock" is just about the most misunderstood and misused motoring term there is. It is nothing to do with losing your NCD when you think you were in the right. It is also known as a "claims sharing agreement", and works like this:
- Driver 1 is insured comprehensively with Insurance Company A and has an accident with Driver 2, who is insured comprehensively with Insurance Company B. On this occasion, Driver 1 is at fault, but rather than Insurance Company A paying Insurance Company B, both companies acknowledge that in another incident, the blame would be the other way around and statistically, the costs & blame should balance out 50/50 over the course of the year. So, to save time and administration/legal costs, each company pays their own clients costs and agree to allow or disallow the NCD purely on the strength of the accident descriptions, admissions of blame and witness evidence.
However, not every insurance company subscribes to claim sharing agreements, as some insurers will happily take on higher risk drivers, who may statistically cause 75% of the blameworthy accidents in a year, throwing the balance of costs out of kilter. In addition, most bus companies 30 years ago were owned by local councils and were therefore self insured, so a claim sharing agreement would not have been possible. For the driver to have lost his NCD, there would have been some other reason, such as that he was considered to have been wholly or partially responsible for the accident.
People seem too quick to criticise bus drivers, whereas the greatest problem is arrogant car drivers who think they have nothing more to learn. I was once following a car whose wheel trim was loose. I gave a quick pip on the horn and pointed at his wheel, but he ignored me with that rigid, pursed lips type of expression which belied his arrogance. At the next traffic lights, he wound his window down and yelled "What's your pink fluffy dice problem?". I replied "your car's on fire". "what, where, oh no..." his manner changed immediately. I then continued "it isn't, but if it was, you'd have burned to death by now, didn't you hear my horn? Actually, your wheel trim fell off five miles back, but if you aren't bothered, that's your problem".
Sorry to carry on, but our roads are killing fields because of the standard of driving in this country. Our government refuses to do anything about it, because bad drivers also vote. However, minorities like bus drivers, HGV drivers and motorcyclists are an easy target. And yes, I am qualified to comment - 16 years as a motor claims handler, now a bus driver, Smith System trained, Motorcyclists (advanced rider) 25 years, car driver 21 years, Driving Instructor grade 5....
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/11/2008 at 02:20
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I hear, on a regular basis, from my mum about the horrific abuse bus drivers suffer from at the hands of the public. Assults, bricks thrown at windscreens, vandalism and verbal abuse all while piloting a large vehicle often through town centres. An easy job it is not, spare a thought.
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Drivers around here (a rural idyll) have been issued with "spit kits" because of small minded, racist pigs that masquerade as passengers.
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Think that all public transport employees in the "front line" get them these days, PU, all the trains guards do as well as revenue protection staff... and we've done a few people with them since they were introduced as well!
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