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I got an extra £500 out of my insurers after my car was written off after a fire, all I did was send in some ads from autotrader. You're problem might be finding similar cars for sale in good condition. Most of the 340/60 's around seem to be going for less than £500 and are few and far between.
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Thanks for the replies guys...doh should have checked out the FAQ first.
Given that a Volvo 360 GLEi SE with leather and working air conditioning are as rare as hen's teeth (they were only made in one year and as a special edition) and that the accident was not my fault can I then write to the insurance company (well, e-mail them) saying that I demand that you repair my car? The car's probably honestly worth about 700 pounds and the repair costs are approx 760 + vat.
I guess I should just start with a standard e-mail informing them that I'm not prepared to accept their offer and I'll be contacting them in a few days citing my reasons why.
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You won't get them to repair a £700 car if the bill is that much. Just because it's rare doesn't make it valuable, either. Leather and aircon don't put much money on a car of that age, in all seriousness. Push for £700, take £575, and move on, is my suggestion!
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In an idle moment as I hung on for a call centre I looked on AT and Ebay. Yr car is/was worth £400 tops, IMHO. Two sold on Ebay, both MoTd, very tidy for age, lowish mileage, and cared for. One for £180, the other for £250. The one on AT was on for £350, and sold, as the ad had been amended.
On that basis I can't see how you can support a valuation of £700. Have you seen what you can get for that recently? A decent Mondeo/Primera can be had for not much more, which will be 8 years old.
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There are two 340s on AT for 900 ish, I know of at least one car that has sold for close to or over a grand. These were show cars, one of them a winner, but the winner went for less than the other one. Actual sale prices, not asking prices in adverts. I would guess they advertised considerably more.
Judging by the fact that mine has a fully working air conditioning system.....find me another Volvo 360 that even has A/C fitted, let alone fully working and compliant with the ozone friendly gas, some very nice alloys and mods to the engine fuel injection system to increase power....not to mention a full rebuild on the engine using factory parts 50,000 miles ago (all mods declared btw). It also has a very nice radio system. The bodywork is not completely perfect, with about 2 small dents and a rust patch on the rear 3/4 panel about an inch square, but is otherwise structurally sound and tidy. I'd say a valuation of 700 is more than fair, and people who know these models support that, including the Volvo Owner's Club, which I'm a member of and whos register keeper for 300 models knows the car because it has been to quite a few club events and meetings.
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If you are claiming it's a classic, then you should have insured it as such, and had an agreed valuation from a club official. As it is you are competing with the rest of the >20 y/o banger market, and as Ebay shows, the value of a car of that age is low.
Edited by oldnotbold on 23/04/2008 at 22:46
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That's irrelevant, the OP is claiming against an 'at fault' third party. The OP can have TPF&T if he wants and he can still have the car repaired if doing so is possible, because he is seeking remedy from a negligent third party.
Edited by Hamsafar on 23/04/2008 at 22:53
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I agree with the above post.
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I agree with Hamsafar.
Stick with the advice given by Honestjohn in his FAQ.
Your claim is against the 3rd party. Write to him/her using the words from HJ's faq, holding him/her fully responsible for restoring your car to how it was before the accident. Let him/her worry how their insurance company settles your claim in full.
I do not know why oldnotbold gets the idea that you have to accept anything less from the 3rd party or their insurer. Make sure you claim for your inconvenience as well as any other reasonable expenses.
Search this forum (using the forum search link in the log-in box0 for previous posts on this subject.
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Thanks for the replies.
One strange thing. He didn't want to put any offers down in writing and he didn't want to give me his written address where I could contact him. After the third time of asking I managed to get his e-mail address, so I will reply using that e-mail address this morning, along the lines of.
"Thank you for our telephone conversation on Tuesday. I have considered your offer of a 200 cash settlement and have decided to decline. I believe that your offer substantially undervalues my car's replacement cost. I will further contact you in due course to substantiate my reasons why. A postal address where I could send any relevent documents would be appreciated.
In the mean time. I ask that you consder this point. As the non-fault third party in this accident, case law (Clarke vs Ardington : Appeal Court, 1 May 2002) indicates that I should be put back into the position I was in before the accident, namely with my car repaired or an identical car. Given that a 1986 Volvo 360 GLEi SE with working Air Conditioning converted to the new Ozone friendly R134a gas and full leather interior, is as rare as hen's teeth, not to mention the upgrades to the fuel injection system or the alloy wheels, I would suggest most strongly that a repair of this is in order.
Many thanks blah blah'
What do you guys think of this before I send it off....don't want to be writing the wrong thing and starting off on the wrong foot.
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.. What do you guys think of this before I send it off ..
The following is not advice, just my personal views.
The 3rd party is required buy law to give you his name & address as well as Insurance details. If he does not play ball, you can claim direct from his Insurance company, just as if the Insurer was the 3rd party, regardless of the 3rd party having told them about the accident or not.
If he does not give you his address, you can either go and report it to the Police and/or pay a small fee to DVLA to get his car's registered keeper's name & address.
I think your draft email has too much detail. Just refer to Clarke vs Ardington case law and state you are going to have your car fully repaired and sue him for the full amount of damages - to include your costs and inconvenience.
Alternatively, tell him that you are putting the whole matter in the hands of a company like "helphire".
Searching the forum for the words for posts reagrding non fault accidents leads to some interesting threads, including
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=43285&...f
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=44888&...f
Edited by jbif on 24/04/2008 at 10:46
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If he does not play ball you can claim direct from his Insurance company .......... regardless of the 3rd party having told them about the accident or not.
I'm pleased to have found that out. It certainly wasn't the case in 1984. When did the rules change?
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I am dealing with the other party's insurance company. It was their 'engineer' who refused to give me his written address when I phoned him up. I did manage at the third time of asking to get his e-mail address. I won't be phoning him cos there are no records of phone conversations.
I hold no ill feeling to the other driver. He was a nice man and gave me all his details straight away.
My beef is with his insurance company. I rang my own insurance company before anyone else who suggested I get in touch with his insurance company straight away and hopefully they would deal with me direct. I am third party only so I wouldn't have been covered anyway. They did say that if I am dissatisfied that I can use my legal cover and get their in house solicitors to contact their insurance company.
So you think I should leave out all the stuff about the valuation and simply state that under case law blah blah I fully intend to get my car repaired and seek to recover the costs from the insurance company?
Edited by pettaw on 24/04/2008 at 11:29
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I'm pleased to have found that out. It certainly wasn't the case in 1984. When did the rules change?
I have a strong feeling that you have asked that before [ :-0 ] , but here is another thread where the question has been answered:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=36...8
In reply to pettaw's question above, I cannot give you advice. All I am saying is that in my view it is best to keep initial correspondence short and sweet, and not to reveal all your cards until the final round.
[ p.s. I had forgotten that you were dealing with the 3rd party insurer's Engineer, so you can ignore the bits about getting name & address etc. ].
Edited by jbif on 24/04/2008 at 11:52
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The OP is claiming that "rarity" is part of the reason why his car is worth 3x as much as the cars in AT - now rarity per se does not increase value, unless it increases what the market will pay. By having the car appraised as a classic, it may be possible to show how it is worth more than the cars on AT, but claiming after a shunt will always be harder than having the appraisal completed before a claim, for obvious reasons.
I stand by my earlier posts - it's down to you to show the market value of the car is what you think it is - you can't pluck a figure. With other cars in good order having changed hands at £250, it's uphill to get to a figure of £700 or more. The fact that two 340s are for sale at a high figure may help, but if they have not sold (and they are the only two in the UK on AT), then you are not much closer to a real valuation - remember, more people over-value cars than under-value them.
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jbif your encyclopaedic memory reminds me of somebody called dalglish who used to post here.
Remember, whilst you have to be restored to the state you the status quo ante bellum that does not necessarily mean repair of your car. If it would cost £5,000 to repair, your entitlement would be to the value of the car. You have a duty - under I believe common law - to mitigate your losses.
I'm currently arguing with an insurance co as to the value of a written off car. They have offered £450 when autotrader examples are in the 1,000 - 1,500 range. Realistically I guess £850 would mean you could eventually find one (it only cost £750 5 years ago, but that is another story). They are arguing that these are forecourt prices, not trade-in. They may have to be pushed very hard in order to raise their offer.
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OK well I emailed him last Friday, ie: more than a week ago and zippo......nothing heard, so I suppose I'm gonna have to start chasing up now by phoning him up, but if he messes me about who do I start writing to? I suppose I could demand a written address this time and not take no for an answer. I hate doing these things anyway and particularly by telephone. I can't think on my feet all that quickly and I need the space to consider my arguments before I put forward my points.
One of the main troubles I suppose is that because I have use of another car in the meantime I haven't taken up their offer of a hire car whilst the other car is off the road, and therefore aren't costing the insurance company anything to string me along like this.
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Well in the end I phoned him up and he isn't prepared to put anything down in writing until we come to a 'verbal agreement'
I said I wasn't happy with that, and I am entitled to be put back into exactly the same position as before. ie: with exactly the same specification of car, and if he thinks he can find one I told him to go ahead and find me exactly the same car.
I managed to get the address of his office because apparently he works from home, although he says he works for the company I wouldn't be surprised if he's only an agent working for himself.
So now I think I'll be dealing with his office direct and sending them a written version of what I sent him, by recorded delivery, along with some strong words regarding his unwillingness to put anything down in writing.
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Time to get legal with them, I think. Recorded letter promising legal action ten days from receipt of letter if not settled in full. I can understand them quibbling over a payout of thousands, but for a figure of +/- £500 they are wasting everyone's time.
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Hmm interesting, its amazing what a few minutes of googling and phoning will get you. I've now got the name and address of my actual claims handler, which was funnily enough in a different office to the one that the engineer gave me.
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Just got off the phone with the claims handler. Always trying it on to say that I'm only entitled to the value of my car before the accident. Didn't let him get away with that one. Told him that because the accident isn't my fault I am entitled to be put back into the position I was in before the accident, which means I have to be in the position where I can another car of the same or as close as humanly possible before the accident and that its nothing to do with trade value and much more to do with how much its going to cost me to replace the vehicle.
He said send evidence of your valuations and gave me an office in Stirling this time where I send my details off.
I phoned up Helphire and they say that I have to initiate a claim with my own insurance company first and then say I want to appoint helphire to deal with it. Aren't Helphire a credit hire company anyway rather than a solicitors? Anybody know how I could potentially involve a solicitors without claiming on my own insurance? I'm happy to pay an indemnity charge or whatever.
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Just to give you an update, an initial letter went out 2 weeks ago by recorded delivery, detailing all that had happened verbally. I have not had a reply,
I have sent the follow up with valuations today and given them 10 working days to respond.
Just one question. If I wanted to then take them to the small claims court, who would I address the summons to? I suppose I could dig out the at fault driver's name and address but he was a nice man and I don't really want to involve him unless necessary as he has already admitted full responsibility for the collision.
{slight edit at authors request}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 27/05/2008 at 01:30
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The SCC process allows you to name multiple parties in a claim. You could name both the ins. co. and the fault driver. He won't be happy that it's got to this, of course, but that really is not your problem.
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I find myself in a similar situation at the moment. I can only pass on the good advice I got: instruct a good solicitor with experience of handling motor insurance claims to act on your behalf.
Better again (for future reference), instruct your solicitor from the outset.
Some insurance companies will try whatever tactic they can - including practices they know wouldn't stand up in court - to avoid claims or reduce the compensation they have to offer. Your solicitor knows the letter of the law and how best to ensure you are restored to the position you were in before the accident. The cost of his fee is added to the claim, so you don't lose out.
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This isn't an "engineer" as such is it... it's a loss adjuster who is paid by the insurance co to investigate and minimise their losses. His fee can only be covered by lowering your payout.
Had a daft situation years ago when a 3mth old £1500 trailer was stolen. Isurance co put a loss adjuster onto it who, with all the correct paperwork and pictures I supplied, was struggling to find a way to pay les than the full value (policy was for a new trailer when stolen one was less than 12mths old).
But he had a brainwave. He said they would not pay the VAT element of the original cost because I would have recovered it. I explained I wasn't a business, it was a private purchase hence to me the VAT was paid... as it would have to be with a replacement.
Not giving up he said as a private person I should not be buying commercial VAT rated items so they still wouldn't pay it!
At this point I refused to deal with this idiot, contacted the insurance co directly and they immediately paid in full apologising for the guys "keeness"!!.
Having run both cars and tractors in the past that were not quite true classics but in outstanding mechanical condition for their age I fully appreciate your frustration.
David
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Yeah, this guy works from home and I'm sure is a loss adjuster. He's paid to fob me off with nonsense, which is why I asked him in my second letter to the insurance company to provide his evidence of a valuation. I did ask him whether he worked for himself or whether he worked for the insurance company, he said he worked for the insurance company but for some reason gave me the wrong address to contact them. When I contacted the bod in the main office who was my claims manager, he was actually even ruder than the 'engineer' again bluff and bluster to try and put me off the scent.
The solicitor sounds like a great idea. I've only got a couple of letters off so IMO its not too late to instruct a solicitor. I'm not interested in using my legal cover on my own insurance as they won't be all that bothered and also they said it could load my premium next renewal unless they could recover their costs, even with my protected 4 years NCD.
So, where to find a reputable motor insurance solicitor. All the ones I've managed to find have been personal injury merchants.
Edited by pettaw on 27/05/2008 at 20:55
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All the ones I've managed to find have been personal injury merchants.
Go to google.co.uk ; restrict search to uk for the words: non fault motor claims solicitors
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Right OK, finally had a reply to the first letter I sent.
Lots of blah blah, but to paraphrase, the offer was calculated by a qualified engineer, taking into account the age. condition, mileage etc. and should reflect the amount the vehicle could have been sold for. It does not reflect the purchase price of another vehicle as it the value of your own vehicle that you have lost.
I've already sent my second letter which they say they await and will forward to their 'engineer'
I say poppycock. To clarify I stated my right in my first e-mail to the 'engineer' to be put back into the position I was in before the accident.
Advice please?
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Advice please?
Yes, follow the advice already given. Looks like you may be out of your depth if you cannot do that, in which case, as probably has already been suggested before, it is high time to get professionals such as Helphire .
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Guidelines from Ins Ombudsman - a bit old now but I don't think their stance has changed.
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombuds...m
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Guidelines from Ins Ombudsman
It is all there in HJ's faq - as linked in my 1st reply to this thread [10th reply to the OP].
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OK guys I finally got phoned up by the 'engineer' from the insurance company. We finally got into a reasonable discussion about values. He started by saying he received my stuff and that he had also found a couple of cars on autotrader for almost 1000 GBP but that he'd also found some that were only a few hundred. He said then that he would go somewhere in between and started by offering me 550. Eventually I managed to negotiate him up to 650, which I guess is as much as I can expect reasonably, although its still a sting in the tail that the car will be written off, I'll have to see exactly what category they class it in. By rights it should be Cat D, but its anybody's guess.
He also said he'd read what I had written in this thread, so I hope he reads this. I intend to write a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman about the way the company have handled this claim. They have been evasive and refused to correspond with me in writing and haven't responded to my e-mails. When I pressed them for an address to write to, they have given me misleading information and I had to eventually find out by myself by phoning random offices for this company who my claims handler was and where I could locate him. When I did eventually get a correct address to send correspondence to, they took a very long time to reply, (about 3 weeks for the first letter) and its almost a month since I sent off my own valuations that they have responded with this phone call. I would love to believe that its just because they genuinely get so much mail, but I get left thinking that these are stalling tactics so that I go away rather than pursue them for a fair settlement.
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well done for standing your ground ,its a shame more people would not do this and there would be more fair play
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