HJ's Road Test - Happy Blue!
Just been reading HJs road test of the new C5.

The most disappointing thing abut the new car is that it is much heavier than the competition, leading to a reduction in around town performance and economy, whilst overall top speed and cruising economy are unchanged.

This is a ridiculous state of affairs.

We are facing ever increasing road congestion throughout the world, so it must be more important to improve urban consumption by way of reduced weight and increased efficiency, rather than a massage the figures for dubious extra urban figures which are impossible to achieve.

Mazda are obviously the leaders in this idealist concept and I hope they do really well. It's a shame that Citroen have produced a car that is heavier that the Rover SD1 3500 V8.

Edited by Pugugly on 20/03/2008 at 07:10

HJs Road Test - happytorque
A very nice Citroen C5 II or a 'light' Mazda (??) ....I know which one i'd rather be driving.
HJs Road Test - ForumNeedsModerating
I was surprised by that (heaviness) as well. Not only the lost opportunity to decrease (or decrease more) fuel consumption, but more material used to make the car - hardly the direction indicated by the stance or ethos conjured by their marketing profile or in tune with current concerns. Big miss.

HJs Road Test - Round The Bend
Irrespective of the weight and economy, I just don't like the Cit corporate grille at the moment. Very unattractive. Superficial comment I know, but ...........
HJs Road Test - boxsterboy
Wel I'm pleased to see that despite the partial use of metal suspension, Citroen seem to have produced a very comfortable car. This is far more relevant, I suspect, to most car users than the last word in road-holding and on-limit handling that some producers seem to favour. Although presumably it won't win any votes from Jeremy Clarkson (although he did like the C6 .. )
HJs Road Test - cattleman6

When the C5 Citroen appairs in Irish showrooms, I will definitely want to test drive one. Obviously it would have to be at least the 2.0 litre diesel. I have genuine restpect for HJ's car reviews. I was a bit worried to hear about the strange steering. I find it an incredibly good looking car. To my wife and I, a really comfortable ride is of enormously importants. If it turns out to be really reliable as I think the latest Citroens are, then it may surely bring Citroen back as a fantastic car company where it should be. Nowadays they share so many parts with Peugeot and others.
HJs Road Test - daveyjp
"2.7HDI V6 208 Exclusive auto £24,395"

If the engine and gearbox are the same as the Jag S type and XF, this is the one which I would be interested in.
HJs Road Test - madf
2.7HDI V6 208 Exclusive auto 3 years old, FSH, 50,000miles £5,000

is the only one I would be interested in.:-)
HJs Road Test - daveyjp
Forgot to add - not a new one! If it loses cash like other top spec Citroens it will lose a fair bit over the first 6 months.
HJs Road Test - cattleman6
I think you would agree with me: If one wants good resale one buys German (Mercedes, BMW,orAudi),lexus or Honda.

Otherwise one turns a blind eye and hopes the car will be good for a long time. Then one buys e.g. Citroens, Ford Mondeos etc etc.

As I have spoken about it quite a bit before, my Seat Toledo TDiSE 1.9 110 bhp ( from the end of 1999) is a fantastically reliable and comfy car. All the pages of free extras still work. I did a long return run yesterday up and around Northern Ireland. Nothing but praise for it after 154,000 miles ( It may last and be reliable for some more years). The local Seat main "Platinum" Dealer is outstanding.It's a very small place. They are extremely helpful and friendly. The boss works on the cars himself and is extremely knowledgeable. The car would be worthless if I sold it. I don't care as it is so reliable. A lovely soft leather steering wheel etc etc etc.
HJs Road Test - concrete
Would you care to re-phrase the sentence about your preference for a comfortable ride? Seriously Citroens are noted for their suspension and the comfort they provide. I have looked but the depreciation scares the hell out of me.Maybe second hand with a view to running it until it drops, but never new. Concrete
HJs Road Test - PhilW
"it won't win any votes from Jeremy Clarkson (although he did like the C6 .. ) "

And the Berlingo!!
HJs Road Test - Mad Maxy
Cattleman6, I take it your major pastime is visiting dealers and test driving cars you've no intention of buying - from Mercs to Mondeos. I've no problem with this (wish I had the time myself), but just to say - you've been sussed!
HJs Road Test - cattleman6
No need for this Mad Maxy!! I have not been sussed. I actually go and test drive just before buying, as you are otherwise continually contacted by sales men. It is not my major pastime if you really want to know. I was genuinely going to buy a decent car recently when the stocks fell like mad here in Ireland. Obviously a good new car will have to wait.I have every intention of buying when the shares finally rise. Like most other hard working normal folk things have to go on a temporary hold. Now I would appreciate if you didn't pass insulting comments Mad Maxy.


HJs Road Test - cattleman6
Mad Maxy. I did actually test drive Mercedes when the pastures were financially greener. I had every intention of buying one.

The stock markets here and indeed worldwide have taken the heck of a bashing. That is why I take a genuine interest in the new Mondeo and the Citroen C5. My present car is getting very old, so it is a case of using common sense. Indeed I don't have the time to go for many test drives; but you would be an absolute idiot to buy without testing thoroughly.
End of story " Mad Maxy".
"Espada lll {P} I sincerely apologise for using your good thread in this way.
HJs Road Test - Vincent de Marco
Hydractive suspension remains an extra option on some markets, whereas on others it comes as standard. Weird...
C5: HJs Road Test - Ed V
I'm certainly interested in one, whether new or not is debatable at this point.

Any of the technical wizzes on here know about the 1.6 diesel unit? MPG/CO2 figures are appealing, [and lower insurance too for [very] occasional child-driving] and I don't care about acceleration. I last overtook anyone on an A or B road in about 1980.

Would the smaller unit be noisier at 70 mph? Is it a newer engine than the 2.0 diesel?
C5: HJs Road Test - cattleman6
Ed V.

It is a fabulous looking car from youtube tests etc that I have seen. A very interesting comment from something I read, was that the famous extra soft suspension which you get in the dearest ones,actually adds enormously to the weight. So in fact a 2.0 litre manual diesel would certainly fair much better with costs than the 2.2 litre manual diesel. I saw the test figures for the automatic 2.0 litre diesel: terrible with CO2s and much poorer economy and poorer performance of course. I see that Whatcar actually say that because you sit relatively low in the driver's seat, the feet are up higher than usual. Apparently it has lots of adgustment for the driver though and it is incredibly quiet on motorways and is designed for comfort which truly interests me. I look forward to seeing it when it appears in showrooms.
HJ's Road Test - a900ss
I work next door to Citroen Head Office in Slough and overlook their car park. In my opinion, The new C5 is a very good looking car (but then again, i think Citroen have produced some beautiful cars over the years).

PS - in realtion to the C6 thread, I see loads every day!!!!

Edited by a900ss (S-Max) on 03/04/2008 at 13:47

HJ's Road Test - boxsterboy
I work next door to Citroen Head Office in Slough - in realtion to the C6 thread I see loads every day!!!!


As you've seen more than the rest of us put together, how has the shape 'worn' in your eyes? I feel that some cars looks lose appeal with familiarity, others improve with age (like current 5-series?). I would like to think that with the C6 familiarity doesn't breed contempt!
HJ's Road Test - a900ss
I still love the way the C6 looks but the lease costs are very expensive (having said all that, for some reason ALL the C6's in their car park are that dark antracite colour). I'm a 40,000 miles a year motorway mile muncher so it would be a good car for me otherwise.
HJ's Road Test - Ed V
The C5 is barely shorter than the C6 [480cm v 491cm], and looks it at the showroom too.

It seems odd in that why would the C6 now be bought over the C5? No-one can want more room than the C5 - and its Tourer is to be even longer.

Annoyances: 1.6HDi cannot be bought with the fancy suspension nor as an automatic. So low emissions/high mpg/max comfort is unattainable. For the Hydractive 3+, you need to buy the 2.0HDi Exclusive.

Not for the first time, my tastes don't match those of the market!

Why not do a luxury C4 with Hydractive - this would allow a comfort factor correctly identified on another thread as unavailable in smaller cars due to a shorter wheelbase.

Doh!
HJ's Road Test - Ed V
PS

Needless to say the saleman had no idea about the designs of the 1.6 v 2.0, their relative age etc. And when I asked him how long it was, he said "very".

Doh! x 2.
HJ's Road Test - boxsterboy
I was passing a large Citroen dealer in West London this pm, so I thought I would pop in to check out the new C5. The only one they had was under a sheet, so I looked closely at a C6 instead, as I sometimes think I should get one, one day.

Problem 1: The rear seat is superbly comfortable for 2 people - extremely comfortable, even behind me as a 6 footer. But the central part of the seat is not much more than a padded centre console (with a seatbelt). I don't thick BB Jr No.3 would appreciate sitting there - which rules it out as a family car. Shame! A C4 Picasso is better in this respect, but hardly the same as a C6!

Problem 2: The dash board. I know it's been said before, but it's just too cheap looking.

Edited by boxsterboy on 03/04/2008 at 21:50

HJ's Road Test - cattleman6
I have investigated in different ways, so many cars don't have a decent middle rear seat.I feel that is an important point in my case. Most have a backrest turned up, so they are harder and smaller than the other two back seat spaces. I bring three in the back at times, so it does matter. The Citroen Picassos and the delightful Renault Scenics and Grand Scenics have better middle back seats. I hired so many Renault Scenics and Grand Scenics on holidays.They are a delightful and useful design.
HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - borasport20
does anybody know if Citroen are running the 'unmistakeably german' ad campaign in the rest of Europe - i'd be surprised if they were ;-)

HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - PhilW
Was in France last week - briefly caught a C5 ad on TV - no mention of "German" as far as I could make out
HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - ifithelps
Maybe us Brits - or some of us - are the only people in Europe dumb enough to think that if it's German it must be reliable, well-built, good to drive, depreciation free, economical, kind to animals, etc, etc.
HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - Pugugly
Phil,

I think there's sound historical reasons for our admiration of German technology. I could be controversial here.....!
HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - PhilW
"I could be controversial here.....! "
Oh, go on - as a mod you can get away with it - but don't mention the war!
Perhaps you could start with those superb 1930's Grand Prix cars - Auto-Union and Mercs driven by the likes of Nuvolari, Stuck, Rosemeyer, von Brauchitsch (his uncle was the WW2 Field Marshall - but doon't mention the war) and Carracciola that my Dad used to tell me about and the cars that I saw at Donington a couple of years ago.
A link or two
www.pistonheads.com/features/default.asp?storyId=1...3
www.ddavid.com/formula1/cara_bio.htm
And there are actually some good vids on youtube eg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH5vtn4SFiQ
Those were the days when a GrandPrix lasted 4 hours on the old Nurburgring
eg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH5vtn4SFiQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCJvDUWXaY&NR=1
(Nuvolari beating all the odds in an Alfa!!!)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XQjfclmbko&feature=related
However, I reckon CX GT turbo 2 would have beaten them all - and in comfort!
Phil



Edited by Dynamic Dave on 08/04/2008 at 20:19

HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - JH
errr... Nuvolari was Italian.
JH
HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - PhilW
"Nuvolari was Italian."
Yep, and Dick Seaman was English - but if you wanted to win a Grand Prix in the late '30s you drove German (unless it was an inspired drive in an Italian car by an Italian driver)
Anyway - I was taliking about the machinery rather than the drivers)
Phil

HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - JH
I'll give you that one! :-) I've always admired those Mercs. 600bhp and bicycle tyres. Scary. But not quite as scary as sitting in the Auto Union I guess with all of that engine waiting to go past you at the first bend.
JH
HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - Pugugly
I think as a nation, we've been programmed since around 1870 to believe that German Technology was unbeatable, that the German Industrial machine was unassailable our own technology was inferior (but unnervingly handsome or even pretty e.g. Spitfire, Maltida 1 tank), this is mainly propaganda perpetuated by both sides in two major conflicts, both of which we rather surprisingly (not least to ourselves) won. None of the other major Western European country defeated the Germans and maybe that's part of the reason for the differences in the National psyches around Germanic technology.

I'd have said that Mod or not.
HJ's Road Test - Unmistakeably German - Pugugly
Just watched the advert (twice - it was recorded), the Germanic element in the car is an imitation Hoffmeister kink in the rear quarterlight. In the final analyses, its nothing like a BMW which is a good thing for many different reasons.
HJ's Road Test - uk_in_usa
Mazda are obviously the leaders in this idealist concept and I hope they do really
well. It's a shame that Citroen have produced a car that is heavier that the
Rover SD1 3500 V8.



And I know which of those two I'd prefer!!!
HJ's Road Test - Lud
The French, the British and the Germans were all involved in the origins and evolution of the automobile. All have excelled in the design, manufacture and racing of proper cars.

The Americans, and later the Japanese, excelled at production engineering, a very different kettle of fish inimical to the automobile as such, but very pleasing when properly done. More recently of course the Japanese have contributed brilliantly to the further evolution of the automobile, and their excellence at production engineering has been sold to everyone including Porsche.

Only the poor old gringos have done very little that really counts, apart from 'Fordism' which is American, though not invented by Henry Ford, and is really production engineering.

Does the Teutonic Citroen ad appear in Germany one wonders? Doubt it. But it might make the famously humourless Germans (not in my experience actually, but still) laugh.
HJ's Road Test - Zippy123
>>>Does the Teutonic Citroen ad appear in Germany one wonders? Doubt it. But it might make the famously humourless Germans (not in my experience actually, but still) laugh.

Over the last year I have had reason to travel to both France and Germany and have found the German people to be friendly (approched to chat, ask where we are from etc) and funny (though I never will get the jokes) & up for a laugh.
HJ's Road Test - Avant
Autocar's road test this week echoes HJ's praise and criticism of the C5, and they seem sure that Citroen has deliberately tried to ape the Germans.

I suspect the C5 will kill the C6 just as the Renault Laguna did the Safrane. In the 1990s I had a Safrane followed by a Laguna and the Laguna had very little less room for people and luggage.
HJ's Road Test - Citroënian {P}
The c6 also reminds me of the avantime in that they have very high initial costs but steep depreciation. This ignites the fantasist in my that I will be able to get a 3 / 4 year old one for peanuts.

Of course the Renault didn't last long enough to have sufficient supply. although I still wistfully look at them on autotradet now and again, still a fantastic looking car.

On a slightly related point did anyone else notice that they used a silver c6 as a policecar in Torchwood and that the same car turned up in the first episode of the new series of doctor who? I can't think of any police forces that would use the big citroen so can only assume it was chosen for its futuristic shape!
HJ's Road Test - Dyane 6 Mehari
I suspect the C5 will kill the C6 just as the Renault Laguna did the
Safrane. In the 1990s I had a Safrane followed by a Laguna and the Laguna
had very little less room for people and luggage.

>>

It's a different market. The C5 is a standard rep-mobile, aimed at fleets.

The C6 is a much posher affair (even if it's only marketing) and will be bought by the kind of people who hanker after a DS, or who want to make a design statement. It's just not aimed at volume sales. I doubt also that Citroen ever expected to sell many here, they must have felt that having it in the range demonstrated a breadth of capability that is important for their overall marketing message. Rivals can't write you off as the seller of discount first-car hatchbacks quite so easily.
HJ's Road Test - Ed V
Just seen my first one on the road - on launch day - on the Bracknell by-pass. Certainly looks great in the rear view mirror, side on and good enough from behind too.

HJ's Road Test - gordonbennet
Well i've seen most specs now, seems most manuals are steel sprung with cable handbrake, whilst the auto's tend to be hydraulic sprung with electric handbrake, no doubt there will be mix and match available, but i've a feeling that if you have hydraulics you are going to have the leccy brake anyway.

Lots of aluminium used in the susp/subframe.

Feels good to me so far, a big improvement on the previous model, a little larger outside, can't decide if that tranlsates to more room inside yet.

Haven't seen a 2.7 yet, but took a top range leathered diesel (presume 2.0) auto to dealer, very smooth box, and torquey engine, but quieter than before. Feels solid to me.

I could see myself with one of these, never thought i'd say that. I really hope they do well with it.

Wonder if they'll try and shift the stock of C6's before releasing the 2.7?
HJ's Road Test - cattleman6
gordonbennet.

It is very nice to see your positive thoughts on the new Citroen C5. I will definitely be checking it out with my wife when it appears in Dublin showrooms. It looks superb in the pictures.From reading reports and watching out for the crippling tax,it seems most sensible to get a manual gearbox. Citroen C5 autos seem to be extremely thirsty and bad with CO2s.Understandably the manuals seem to fair much better according to various reports.One report mentioned about the great weight of that special luxury suspension. I always like manual pull up handbrakes, surely more reliable. I really hope this car will be a great success!
HJ's Road Test - Pugugly
Cattleman.

Are you exposed to that "German" advert in the Republic ?
HJ's Road Test - cattleman6
Pugugly.

I haven't seen it on our local TV station yet; but I've seen it on the UK ones because we have Sky TV. It's an absolute scream!! I laugh all the time when I see it. I can understand some people might be upset about it because of their past. I respect these people; but I think it was done in Bavaria with Bavarian costumes. The saucy girl giving the chap sausage. I played cello in an opera and ballet orchestra for years, so I enjoy listening and playing Wagner. The advert is done brilliantly. I enjoy the laugh!!
HJ's Road Test - gordonbennet
Hi Cattleman, i agree about the handbrakes, and to be honest its a gimmick too far IMO.

As things wear over time, you can feel the resistance and movement on a normal handbrake (or the merc type foot operated parking brake), not so with electric operated, but they are getting more popular so i expect our kids will have to live with it.
As a convicted luddite i can probably avoid a lot of these dubious changes in my remaining motoring years.

I'd like to see the various kerb weights for the new C5, i can't really imagine the hydraulic suspension making a huge difference TBH.

Its very chunky at the front, not dissimilar to audi's, somewhat higher and more squared off than most others, and certainly looks much more handsome than its stablemate the 407, but then one mans meat etc.

Citroen seem to be making huge strides forward in their designs, with some exceptions they are a nice looking range of vehicles.

One that leaps out is their crosser, if you compare that to the 4007 or the mitsubishi outlander they are all based on the citroen looks far better, my opinion only, actually the crosser is well worth a test drive.
HJ's Road Test - cattleman6
gordonbennet.

I have read about the various weights etc of the various models of the new C5. I checked it out in Whatcar, AutoExpress (the triple test with the Ford Mondeo and Mazda 6 up against the C5)and of course Honest John's report and roadtest( I respect it as it is genuinely honest and straightforward the report). There is also a test in Autocar.
HJ's Road Test - cattleman6
gordonbennet.

Just looked up some kerb weights for the new C 5 saloon:

2.2 HDi Exclusive 1,720 Kg.

2.0 HDi Exclusive 1,608 Kg.

1.8i 16v VTR 1,510 Kg.

HJ's Road Test - gordonbennet
Only trouble is Cattleman that doesn't tell us which has the hydraulics.
I'm guessing the 2.2 would have but as the diesels will be heavier anyway and i would presume as cc increases so does weight, the increases look about right to me, probably find the excusives were auto anyway.

We obviously need a direct comparison for a standard spec one with hydraulics and one without. Must admit i'm quite interested now to find out exactly how much the suspension weighs.

Is that 2.2 the same as goes in the crosser i wonder cos its certainly got some poke.
And surprisingly good on co2 emissions.
HJ's Road Test - cattleman6
gordonbennet.

I have been checking various tests: Honest John, Autocar, AutoExpress and 5thGear( on youtube),also of course Whatcar. Hydractive 3 +suspension on VTR. Auto and 2.2 HDI only.
Another one says that most models have the steel spring suspension; but top-spec models and autos get a hydropneumatic suspension. Another one says that Exclusive cars get hydropneumatic suspension.
I just hope that the dealers will know most of the facts.
HJ's Road Test - cattleman6
New Citroens seem to be better built and more reliable than the older ones. If they make this new C5 well, it really looks to be a lovely car. One must have a decent diesel engine though. I didn't realise that the top models are actually heavier than the new Mondeo. Almost the same size too.
HJ's Road Test - Vincent de Marco
Wonder if they'll try and shift the stock of C6's before releasing the 2.7?


Naah... What for ?
HJ's Road Test - Ed V
I've just ordered one. Gulp!

Started looking for the 1.6 HDi, but no accoustic side windows nor hydractive suspension - both essential/key reasons I'm buying a large Citiroen - , so ended up going for the Exclusive, 2.0 HDi, manual. A perfect world would be the 2.7 V6 auto, but poor mpg and much larger depreciation put me off. I may buy one of those in 3 years though, second hand for much the same as mine will then be worth.

I have bought the Navi drive too, but not the lane changing system nor the swivelling headlights. Gimicks I think, unless you do a load of B road driving at night, which I don't.

I'll report in due course on my thoughts. Delivery not till late May.
HJ's Road Test - cattleman6
EdV.

Well done congratulations. In one of my magazine reports,they actually recommended the one you bought. The most sensible!! It is definitely a beautiful looking car.
HJ's Road Test - gordonbennet
Good luck EdV.

Hope you'll keep us posted with regular reports on your new car, one of the most attractive cars to come from the citroen stable for many years.

I think the 2.7 goes into top band road tax anyway, not saying it would be a problem for you of course, just mentioning.
HJ's Road Test - boxsterboy
Good luck, EdV. I agree about going for a top trim level to get the acoustic glass, Xenons and decent suspension.

I would be tempted by a tourer (estate) when they come out as a replacement for my Merc C320CDI, A 2.7 V6 HDI auto would be nice, apart from the emissions, which rules it out for me. Funny how the same engine in the Jag XF gets emissions of 199?! I guess ideally I would go for a 2.2 HDI auto (if they made it, and emissions were under 225).

I read, in Autocar I think, that the 'proper' suspension was slightly lighter than the 407 set-up.
 

Value my car