This is a question I was looking for an answer and couldn't find anything conclusive yet.
I consider myself as a bloke having poor navigational skill (I lost roads many times especially inside large towns). In these situations I wished I had a Sat Nav (I still don't use one).
However, I have no problem in calculating my route from maps and I find it bit funny when people use Sat Nav on motorways or other major roads.
I am considering buying a Sat Nav now and will be only using it after I entered on a town or after I left motorway/A road etc.
I like to know whether using Sat Nav actually improves or deteriorates one's navigational skill. Or it has no effect on it?
I know with proper training and experience, one can improve one's driving skill. But is it ever possible to improve navigational skill or people are just born with it? Is it anyway related to someone's IQ?
What do you think?
PS: This is somewhat in line with this thread "Aids to avoiding speed cameras counter productive?". But since it is on a different context I thought of creating a new thread.
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I would tend to think it would marginally improve the ability of the already practised mind, as you might be for example. For a novice or someone with less than average innate ability, I would think the converse.
In the former case, your natural & learned navigational skills would still be operating in the 'background' , as it were, & would also be getting visual & auditory confirmation (or not!) from the device - so a re-inforcing virtuous circle in some sense.
In the latter, the underdeveloped skill, perhaps matched with less innate ability, one imagines would re-inforce dependence even further & remove the incentive to learn or develop skill.
I don't think IQ has much bearing though, if it did you wouldn't expect the Pigoen Fancy
(racing division) to be as popular as it is - I'm referring to the Pigeons of course!
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According to an interesting set of theories from the 60s, there are several different types of intelligence; we are all born with a mixture of them, but some are not initially well developed and some never are fully developed during a person's life (Nature/nurture, blah blah blah...)
The one which comes to the fore in navigation is "visual - spatial" intelligence, and one of the key elements of that is "the ability to manipulate and mentally rotate objects".
We all know the difference between up and down but a lot of people agonize over left and right well into adult life. Show some people a map and turn it upside down and it all becomes a blur, yet others get it straight away (The fire station is now before the post office, left is now right, east is now up, etc.)
Where I think SatNav is useful is in helping you to become quickly familiar with oft-repeated routes but it is possible to learn point A to point B the hard way - as we always used to, and as London cabbies still have to.
As a sales rep I get frustrated on my first and second visit to a new client in a large city but after that I have pretty much learnt the route. I would have found SatNav useful when I started out but have managed 7 years without one and like to think I am exercising my brain better. SatNav does not teach you anything you could not otherwise learn yourself; it is merely an AID to navigation. From what I see day to day I think too many people rely on them too much - think back to the last time you saw a shop assistant add together three prices without using a calculator.
Hope that helps.
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As bilboman said, it is an aid to navigation as is a map. I only use mine in urban areas that I do not know or when I am in the vicinity of a location I dont know. I do not have a problem with maps or sense of direction, (I was a qualified marine navigator). I do find that my sense of direction tends to lapse when using satnav.
Edited by Old Navy on 02/01/2008 at 15:32
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>>.....but a lot of people agonize over left and right well into adult life.
>>
That is because they do not have the basic solution.
If you hold your hands up in front of your face, palms facing each other, fingers vertical with thumbs horizontal and pointing at each other, the answer is before your very eyes.
The hand forming the letter L is your left hand. :-)
However I do not think you will be excused in a conversation with the BiB.
Why are you not holding the steering wheel with you hands?
Cos I am just checking my directions. ( the Sat Nav said next right ) :-)
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I cannot see how relinquishing your responsibility for knowing where you are to a gadget can improve your navigational skills. It is more likely to lead to over dependence.
Some people argue that it means they are more focused on the road ahead, but that is undermined by the stream of stories of vehicles getting stuck in obviously inappropriate places and if you're such a lame driver that you cannot simultaneously concentrate on what's around you and keep in mind the directions you're following or landmarks you're looking for then maybe spending £100 at Halfords is not the solution.
I have tried using them in rental cars on holiday and found them to be irritating and often misleading.
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Some people definitely have better navigational skill than others.
Sat Nav is a very useful tool - can be useful in route planning also.
But relying solely on satnav - especially with post/zip codes - can lead to some crazy mistakes.
If you do buy one, then it's worth learning how to use it fully, including its limitations.
You might want to leave it on all the time- including motorways, as it can take time to acquire satellites.
Mine told me I was exceeding the speed limit while I was planning a route, sat on my sofa :-)
(It's programmed to position itself to the nearest road - and this jumped while it was losing signal).
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What I find funny is that people who get all po-faced about smoking and using mobile phones while driving seem to think it's perfectly all right to drive about peering at a tiny little LCD screen placed either in the driver's line of sight (bad) or out of it (even worse). If I used one myself I'd have to change my spectacles every time I looked at the thing too. All very well for a Hindu deity with six arms and three eyes.
:o}
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I use my satnav in the mode that displays a large "direction at next junction arrow" this also provides a distance countdown. I find this helpful in urban areas I am not familiar with. Reading specs not required and periferal vision adequate.
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What is the point of having a Sat-Nav and NOT using it when you are on a motorway or A road? A roads and Motorways do have accidents and blockages on them and sometimes you need to nip off at short notice. If your nav is on, just hit re-route and it's all done for you.
Anybody who uses sat-nav 100% is of course a little foolish. I always sense-check the route given and if I don't agree, I either hit re-route or just drive in the dirction that I think is right.
Don't forget, computers are stupid. They will drive an extra 10 miles to save 1 minute. Common-sense must always come into play as would local knowledge of rush hour traffic etc.
Just my 2p
Edited by a900ss (S-Max) on 02/01/2008 at 16:09
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Agree with a900s on this. A few weeks before xmas spotted a tailback on the M6 north of Birmingham (sat nav had also told me actually) so I got off and diverted to the next junction. That was still snarled up so went another junction up and then it was quiet because of the massive hold-up further south.
Getting to the next junctions up was helped by sat nav as I didn't know the actual route - and didn't want to stop to read a map. And the traffic feature warned me of the hold-up before I was in it - came off and thanked the sat nav....
... but the traffic info is not always 100%
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Our sat navs are now considered valued members of the family. Don't leave home without it now, particularly on long journeys.
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Sat nav's make people into lazy ignorant pigs.
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Sat nav's make people into lazy ignorant pigs.
It also saves people's lives
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cornwall/71670...m
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Sat-nav is a tool that's all. A tool that takes your mind off on element of driving when in a busy strange area. It also lets you tell your other 'alf your ETA when you drive halfway across the country to be with her.
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"Sat nav's make people into lazy ignorant pigs."
like casting Perles before swine? ;);)
Edited by oilrag on 02/01/2008 at 21:06
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Thank you, Perleman, for the compliment, but some of us lesser peoples without the Law don't have photographic memories of street layout maps of cities on the other side of the world. Being able to plug hotel addresses into my Navman whilst touring Europe [ including UK ] was far easier and safer than stopping periodically in a busy city to study maps. I keep mine on "shortest distance" and it does take me into some very intriguing places, but has never "lost" me except in Naples a couple of years ago when the one-way system was altered. One of the best was from Caister-on-Sea to Thornage directly across Norfolk by way of B and I suspect Ungraded roads. Much more interesting for a tourist than just hooning around the main coast road. I kept a general check on direction by the sun [ see another earlier thread ] but, apart from that, let Navman do the work.
Does it make me lazy ? To the extent that I don't stop every few intersections to map-read, yes, I guess it does.
Does it make me a safer driver ? Yes, in that it gives me sufficient warning of turns to allow me to get into the correct lane without wrecking the traffic flow by sudden lane-changes etc.
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Although I don't use any [external] navigation device, it doesn't really seem that different to having a partner/friend reading the map & giving you directions - not sure why some people posting have such a negative (or even hostile!) opinion of it. In fact, I'm sure there would be a market for an inflatable 'partner-nav' (male or female to taste) that sat on the seat next to you gently coo-ing road directions to you. Dragons' Den here I come!
Edited by woodbines on 03/01/2008 at 10:54
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I have a negative attitude to them because if I didn't, I'd also have to stop being negative about those lame brains who go hill-walking and because now a mobile phone enables them to call out the rescue services at the drop of a hat that's what they do. Likewise those idiots who call 999 because they've got toothache.
Taking the easy route and relying on someone/something to take responsibility for you is childish and that's not a great quality to have behind the wheel of a car.
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So does your car have PAS, electric windows, ABS, ESP, an electric starter, a heater, automatic gears, air con, a stereo, cruise control, etc. Mine has all those (except auto) and I love it. It makes my life real easy, makes me more comfortable and I can then concentrate on the road ahead...
Edited by a900ss (S-Max) on 03/01/2008 at 11:44
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I think you're missing the point. Pretty much all those features do things that I can't do my self or do it manifestly better than I could eg ABS/ESP/using a cranking handle to start a car. None of them encourage me to detach me from my responsibilities as a driver with the poss exception of cruise and I can't recall the last time I used cruise, I'd far rather be fully engaged with the job of keeping a safe distance from the cars around me.
Horses for courses, you want things to help you disengage from the total experience of making a journey, I don't.
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I think some people already used a dummy on multiple occupancy lanes on some American roads!
Microsoft is currently doing R&D on navigation technology where a 3D holographic projection of a car will be created in front of your own car. You'd simply follow that virtual car. You'd be able to customize that say a red ferrari or black McLaren etc.
They "claim" people will get distracted less compared to conventional sat navs!
PS: I tried to reply to woodbines's post, don't know why it appeared at bottom!
Edited by movilogo on 03/01/2008 at 13:21
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PS: I tried to reply to woodbines's post don't know why it appeared at bottom!
Temp change the view to 'view threaded' and you will see that you have.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=58915&...t
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I have two main problems with satnav - which is why I now leave it in SWMBO's car.
1. I do not seem to be able to ever find a way to tell the damn thing that I dont need it to start navigating until I am within 5 miles or so of my destination. I know the way from my home to the motorway perfectly, I have a pretty good idea of where most major towns are in relation to where I am BUT I do not know strange towns on a street by street level.
For example on a recent trip from home in Reading to visit relatives in Leeds I knew before starting the car that I wanted M4 M25 M1 - as far as I am concerned that is three steps. The satnav when checked on demo mode lists 25 steps from home to the M4!
2. Distracting display - I cannot see why placing a satnav screen in the windscreen is not illegal just as having a DVD player / television / mobile phone would be. Surely from a safety point of view satnavs should automatically blank the screen when the vehicle is in motion (which they can detect obviously) and default to spoken instructions only?
As far as navigational skill goes I suspect that for an older motorist such as myself practice has sharpened such ability as I might have already. Whether a new driver using satnav from day one would then not develop a sense of direction/spatial awareness might be an interesting research problem for some PHD student.
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My SatNav has been very useful to get me across places I am unfamiliar with, to find addresses that I go to infrequently but are having the road dug up in the vicinity, and to take the strain of holiday navigation away from Mrs H.
Mrs H is a very experienced and accomplished navigator but relies rather a lot on hindsight as in, "take the next left I think that was it you are going much too fast for these glasses" (?)
Last year for the first time the SatNav was entrusted with getting the family from Yorkshire to Chertsey and various tourist destinations from there, and very satisfactory it was, too. It talked to me only in the politest of tones, did not remember the row Mrs H and I had in France in 1983, and did not chide me when I got things wrong, merely silently recalculating the route to accommodate my mistake.
I don't think you need to "peer" at the screen for long, only to get a picture of a junction, perhaps. I don't rate it any more distracting than looking at the speedo.
There seems to be a strong Luddite faction here; perhaps in an earlier time these good people would have preferred to give a hand signal rather than trust to new-fangled indicators, the bulbs of which might blow at any time causing untold carnage. Not to mention the presence of a confusing and unecessary extra control next to the advance-retard lever and the klaxon button.
Steer clear of SatNav by all means but I'll keep mine thank you and I rather think it's enhanced my knowledge ofthe local area.
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I have excellent navigational skills and can get from pretty much anywhere to pretty much anywhere using a combination of common sense and a glance at a map.
However, I still use a navigation system for every journey I make of over 10 miles. Not becuase I need to know where I am going, but becuase I like having a large colour display showing where I am, whats around me, my accurate GPS based speed and accurate arrival time/distance left information.
It's also particularly useful when following planks in people carriers as you can see whether a corner is likely to open up into a straight for overtaking or not, and prepare yourself accordingly.
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Snap! MichaelR. I also use the map to show whether overtaking opportunities are ahead. Very useful.
My satnav is built-in, with a big screen so nice and easy to see. Wonderful in a town you don't know. I was sceptical until I had one, but I'm not keen on the tiny screen/sucker-on-the-windscreen types.
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However, I still use a navigation system for every journey I make of over 10 miles. Not becuase I need to know where I am going, but becuase I like having a large colour display showing where I am, whats around me, my accurate GPS based speed and accurate arrival time/distance left information.
Yes indeedy. About the only reason I'd use external navigational devices - for the entertainment value & overall geographica/local interest context - might be an ancient monument nearby or similar. I cut my teeth on the London A-Z whilst despatching in my earlier years, the quick glance technique has stood me in good stead ever since. A prime skill in my view, is the ability to navigate a maze - there's a simple trick involved of course - once learned never forgotten.
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I put my satnav on the little triangular side window on my C-Max. It's not in my primarly line of sight, but is easily viewable at a glance, just like when I glance to check my wing mirrors.
I find it invaluable for long trips, mainly because I can concentrate on the driving rather than having to keep a watch out for approaching turn-offs. I also like knowing exactly where I am, and the reassurance that if I miss a turning it will re-calculate to get me back on track.
I have the pocketgpsworld speed camera database on it, with voice warnings, not because I speed, but because I want to make sure I don't get caught out by unexpected speed limit changes.
I don't treat what it says as gospel, and will often ignore it if it seems to be telling me to make an illogical or wrong turn.
The best thing is it's given my wife more confidence to drive around our home town to visit friends or take our children out.
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