Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Mon 10 Dec 2007 20:49

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - krs one

When driving along a road with 2 lanes , one a bus lane on the left and the other for cars, who has priority if a car wants to turn left across the bus lane and into a side street. If the car is a good distance in front of the vehicle in the bus lane is it right to expect the driver in the bus lane to stop or slow while you cross in front of them. Having looked at the highway code site I could find no mention of it. I only ask as I nearly had a big accident the other day when a London taxi completely ignored my long signalled intention to turn left into a side road.

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 20:55

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Ruperts Trooper

I was taught that any lane line should be treated as a give way so causing a vehicle in another lane to stop or slow unnecessarily is failing to give way.

You don't gain "rights" to manoeuvre just because you signal.

Drivers who signal and expect other drivers to get out of their way......................

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 21:05

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - krs one

Sorry RT , but I don't see it that way. What happened was simply "undertaking" . You don't do it on the motorway , especially if someone is indicating that they are moving from an outer lane into an inside lane. Also , at the junction in question there is no lane line at the junction because the bus lane ends at the side road and begins again after it. And no, I'm not a driver who signals and expects everyone to get out of my way , I was just after some clarification. Drive a taxi by any chance?

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 21:23

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - wotspur

work on the basis that a bus will do a lot more damage to you, than visa versa and let him go first.
In this case a taxi, i would follow the above advice, as anyone who drives regularly in London knows, they drive to their own rules and regulations and I for one would never trust any signal they made.
Just be grateful you weren't hit

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 21:32

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - krs one

Yes , size matters in this respect , and London cabbies are more lethal than Bin Laden. Was interested to know what the law is though.

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 21:37

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Altea Ego

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 21:27

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Doc

RT is right.

You are "crossing the path" of another vehicle when you change lanes, and therefore you must give precedence.

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 21:43

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - krs one

Doc , I take your point, but for all the cabbie new I could have been signalling that I was moving from the outside lane to the inside lane ( you can drive in bus lanes at certain times). This is why I would consider him to have made an undertaking manouvre.

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 07:20

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Garethj

Sorry RT but I don't see it that way. What happened was simply "undertaking" .

You don't do it on the motorway especially if someone is indicating that they are

moving from an outer lane into an inside lane.

I think it's more like a 1 way street where going faster in the left lane is allowed.

As said by lots of people above, if you cause another vehicle to change speed or direction then you didn't have enough time. Road position is more important than indicating, otherwise we'd all be able to breeze from the slip road to lane 3 of the motorway, scattering traffic left and right, just because we had an indicator on.

Edited by Garethj on 11/12/2007 at 07:21

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 21:54

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - FotheringtonThomas

If the car is a good distance in front of the vehicle in the bus lane is it right to

expect the driver in the bus lane to stop or slow while you cross in front

If they needed to stop or slow, then you weren't "a good distance in front".

Next.

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 22:04

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - krs one

The distance is immaterial. I was in front of them and would expect them to act as If they were directly behind me , ie. slowing down because I'm turning left.

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 22:16

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Ruperts Trooper

I was in front of them and would expect them to act

Don't EXPECT other drivers to make way for you - that's driving without due care and consideration in my book.

It's nothing to do with London cabbies, the same rules apply if you fail to give way when cutting across rural car drivers.

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 22:22

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Bromptonaut

krs, you asked for advice but seem reluctant to accept it. A turn left over a bus lane has the characterisitcs of a right turn - only go if it is clear. You may need to stop even if that impedes following traffic. And watch for cyclists in the bus lane - they're moving faster than you think.

In a sane world the bus lane would be marked in a way that allowed traffic entering/leaving side roads to use the lane for 25 metres while they merged/decelerate etc.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 10/12/2007 at 22:22

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 23:13

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - spikeyhead {p}

I can't think of a left turn in London across a bus lane where the bus lane isn't removed for a short section. Usual London driving riles apply as far as I'm concerned, the car with a nose in front has priority.
--
I read often, only post occasionally

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 23:22

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Bromptonaut

I can't think of a left turn in London across a bus lane where the

bus lane isn't removed for a short section.

Southampton Row into what I think is Fisher St. One of the two roads between Theobalds Rd and Kingsway when headed south. Been either victim or observer to several incidents of cyclists "hooked" here.

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Mon 10 Dec 2007 23:49

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - spikeyhead {p}

Southampton Row into what I think is Fisher St. One of the two roads between

Theobalds Rd and Kingsway when headed south. Been either victim or observer to several incidents

of cyclists "hooked" here.

I always turn left into Theobald St and round the one way section to get into High Holborn here.

Unfortunately, google maps has a rather large bus obscuring that section of road so I can't see whet the road is really like. I dare say there's a few others into minor roads, though I've usually found that traffic is moving soooo slowly there that it'd be impossible to have a collision.
--
I read often, only post occasionally

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 00:14

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - ForumNeedsModerating

As any experienced London driver knows, cabbies are walkovers. A damaged cab is a cab not earning money. If you dont look them in the eye you can do anything to them and they will always avoid the collision.

Buses - now there is another matter, they are big and heavy and they hurt.

Yes, AE - as neat an explanation of the psychology & mechanics as I've seen. Might I also add that bus drivers invariably have the sympathy of the 'court' in any driving controversy & will doubtless have days off for recuperation from stress should their 10 ton behemoths flatten another vehicle - so, not much incentive for 'give' in a give-and-take situation for them.

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 07:29

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - L'escargot

Discretion is the better part of valour! There are times when things like who has priority has to be forgotten.
--
L\'escargot.

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 08:38

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Cliff Pope

Legitimate users of bus lanes are surely allowed to undertake- that's the point, isn't it?

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 08:52

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - daveyjp

I suffer this when going to my daughter's nursery. It's a left turn off a main road with a bus lane. Like any other time of driving rights have nothing to do with anything, all I want to do is avoid an accident.

The bus lane only operates 4pm-6pm, so in a morning I use it - lots of others don't read the signs and use the road - not a problem as it's never busy in the early morning. I've had people just in front who indicate left. Once I see this I assess what they are doing, drop back if needs be and let them across, sometimes they yield and I turn left before they do.

On an evening when the bus lane is in operation I am the one turning across the traffic - I always wait until the bus lane is clear.

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 10:41

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - martint123

When crossing any sort of line in the road - bus lane, cycle lane etc then it is up to the vehicle changing lanes to give way to any traffic on the lane being crossed - no question.

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 12:22

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Bilboman

It all seems to come down to the line(s) separating the lanes. A normal dotted line separates two lanes, take care when crossing as normal and "generally" overtake in the right hand lane. A line of longer "dashes" requires extra care when crossing and a solid line or lines should not be crossed.
So when we see a bus/taxi lane marked off by a line other than a "normal" dotted line, it's best to treat it as a separate road and be extra careful when crossing it. i.e. give way to a bus or taxi - requires you to rotate head and look behind (reversing sensors, rear view mirror etc. don't quite do the job here!) Even more care when crossing a cycle lane where a careless turn can actually mean serious injury or death.

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 19:07

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Bromptonaut

Spikeyhead

Apologies there is in fact a very short break - the width of Fisher St - in the solid edge of the bus lane. No other markings to suggest the bus should give way, though they've been resurfacing since September and some features, including the red surface in the bus lane, have still to be restored.

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 20:19

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Lud

Pointless thread of the year.

A bus lane for the purposes of this argument is a lane.

If you need to cross another lane to turn off or make some manoeuvre, it is up to you (note: not 'down to') to ensure that you aren't going to be run into by some moribund or semi-conscious cabbie or bus driver. Not because they won't have been wrong to run into you, but because the tedious keening clamour from them and their colleagues and their briefs and their employers and nine-tenths of the people here will make you wish you were dead.

So don't risk being run into by some fool in the bus lane, that's my advice. As for the road markings, they aren't worth the tarmac they're written on. Whatever the screaming carphounds who 'operate' (lol) sneaky lying big brother cameras may say, if they are capable of human-sounding utterance.

It's a minefield. See you next week if you survive.

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Tue 11 Dec 2007 20:24

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - cheddar

Pointless thread of the year.

A bus lane for the purposes of this argument is a lane.

Tend to agree.

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Wed 26 Jan 2011 23:39

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Problem_Polo :-/

As a former PCV driver - though thankfully not in London - I can offer the advice that pulling straight into the path of a bus which is proceeding along a clear bus lane is neither clever nor pretty, and is certainly not legitimate.

Buses will tend to be fitted with powerful air brakes, which if applied hard - such as in the case of an incompetent idiot pulling straight across in front of the vehicle - will almost certainly launch passengers out of their seats and down the inside of the bus, causing injuries. A sharp driver may very well, if given the chance to do so, make a perfectly reasonable judgement that the impending destruction of a badly placed car is less of a concern than multiple injuries to innocent members of the travelling public. It's probably also a better option for the idiot in the other vehicle than a visit from the Police and the worry of being charged with Careless Driving or something similar - next time you pass a London bus count the number of CCTV cameras you can see attached to the outside.

As for the slightly amusing, rather bitter and twisted post by 'Lud', I would have to suggest that if you are indeed "run into by some moribund or semi-conscious cabbie or bus driver " whilst performing a dangerously poor driving manoeuvre without any basic observation (i.e. being unable to spot a bright red double decker bus, probably running with it's headlamps switched on), we can only hope that the shock of how inept and dangerous you are just might be enough to put you off driving for good. Alas, probably not...

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Fri 26 Sep 2008 14:03

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - MacAye

From the highway code, on the section about turning left:

183
When turning

? give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction

I also think users of bus lanes should travel at a speed appropriate for the circumstances. For instance, if traffic on the main lane is stationary or only moving very slowly, it is sensible for buses, cycles and motorcycles to drive well below the speed limit, especially since drivers may pull into to the bus lane for any reason (quite often in anticipation of making a left turn further along the raod) and may not see someone if they are advancing up the inside quickly.

Traffic in a bus lane should not be that busy, as only non-congesting forms of traffic are allowed to use it. So, if there is someone approaching on the left, in the bus lane, generally stopping to let them pass before turning left will not take very long.

As always, drive slightly slower than you feel is the maximum safe speed. Be more prepared to brake rather than accelerate. If you think others are bad drivers or are struggling, give them more sympathy and be more patient, rather than less so.

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Thu 20 Jan 2011 21:53

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - RazzColio

i was intrigued by this post because i got hit by a diver earlier today while driving to work on my motorcycle.

thought id put my two pennies in.

when having car driving lessons and driving down old kent road (towards central) before the big round about under the fly over, theres a left turn that leads u back to camberwell, while using this turning, my driving instructor told me that i had to signal and wait in my lane till the bus lane was clear. this sometimes meant i had to stop completely, which if any1 drives on that, its a busy road and annoys other drivers, but you have to give way to the bus/taxi/cyclist/motorbike....if they decide to stop and let u past its up to them...

one question i had is possibly the same outcome tbh...
heading towards camberwell from peckham earlier today the traffic was bad so as a motorcycle and in the times indicated on the bus lane, i used it and was traveling down it...
now a car coming the opposite way was trying to turn right across both lanes and down a side alley on my left, as they didn't see me coming down this bus lane they hit me side on (im OK and the bikes fine)

now who's fault is that? because the right hand lane car had let them past but in my opinion it was still my right of way in the bus lane?? am i wrong?

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Thu 20 Jan 2011 23:38

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Lygonos

Personally I'd have joined the bus lane a reasonable distance before the left turn, thus negating the need to stop in a lane and wait so as not to be T-boned, as I'd be turning left from the bus lane.

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Fri 21 Jan 2011 00:27

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - primeradriver

Agreed, seems ridiculous to me to stop dead on a road like that with traffic coming from the left. Whether you stop, or assume people will stop for you, you're going to cause carnage.

And I know this thread is an old one so the OP is unlikely to pick this up, but I really must pull them up on something they said about leaving the motorway whilst on the right-hand lane and accusing traffic on the left lane of "undertaking" when they don't slow down when the fool on the right decides to slow down and take the left turn.

What planet are they living on? It is absolutely acceptable to *maintain speed* on the left lane of a motorway if the traffic to the right starts to slow down while the left does not. It would be b***** dangerous to slow to a crawl just because the right lane has slowed.

People have the wrong idea of what "undertaking" is. "Passing on the left" is *not* undertaking per-se. It's only when the left-passer has made a deliberate attempt to speed up to get past the vehicle to the right that an infraction takes place. I would even argue that passing a single car sat in the middle lane at a constant 70mph, while the MLOC is doing 60, is not undertaking so long as the faster car simply maintains speed rather than swerving around.

I've actually had a driver do this on me. 60mph, plodding on the inside lane. Nothing wrong with that. Car to the right is doing about the same and is holding the lane up despite not much ahead. Suddenly he slows down, indicates and pulls in front of me simultaneously, and proceeds to take the slip road, cutting right across me. Then has the audacity to give me the finger because, in being forced to slam on the anchors I ended up rather closer to his back bumper than I would have liked, so I flashed him.

Sounds like the kind of trick the OP would pull given his comments here.

Edited by primeradriver on 21/01/2011 at 00:35

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Sun 23 Jan 2011 12:56

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Hamsafar

Obviously the person doing the manouver gives way.

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Mon 24 Jan 2011 11:48

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - gfewster

I like the bit someone said about 'only non-congesting forms of traffic using bus lanes'.

Have you driven in central London? Ever tried to get down Strand or up Piccadilly? Most of the congestion is caused by buses.

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Tue 25 Jan 2011 21:06

Crossing a bus lane , who has priority? - Sofa Spud

QUOTE:....""You don't gain "rights" to manoeuvre just because you signal.""

Unless you're driving a black taxi in London !!!!

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