1998 TD - Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
Hi there, I have a 1998 Escort turbo diesel estate with the Endura engine without the intercooler. I bought it last week with a suspected injection pump problem. I asked the guy when the problem started and he said it was used daily for years with no problems, until he went on holiday for two weeks. When he came back the idle was unsteady, it was smokey, there was a lack in power, slow to rev, poor MPG e.t.c. I have changed the fuel filter, blead the fuel system, checked for air in the fuel system, cleaned egr valve, used injector cleaner in the fuel e.t.c. I have noticed that instead of the turbo coming in at around 1500-2000 rev's as it should, it comes on at 4000-4500 rev's, when this happens it runs like a dream until the rev's drop below 2000 rev's and then there appears to be no boost again. Occasionally it will catch me out when pulling off because it does actually work sometimes, but just as quick, it doesn't work properly again. I have read about the advance solenoid, will this cause the problems I've described if faulty? How would I go about checking if this is at fault. When I turn the ignition on I hear one loud click, which I think is the throttle position sensor, and a series of quieter clicks very quickly. Many thanks in advance. Martin

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/11/2007 at 18:43

Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Screwloose
Martin

It could be the advance solenoid; but the series of clicks sounds right.

I'd go for the aneroid unit diaphragms in that boost capsule on the front of the pump. The rubber hose going to it has been known to split too.

Edited by Screwloose on 14/11/2007 at 18:41

Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
Hi Screwloose. Many many thanks for your reply. There are no other tubes connected to the pump other than the fuel delivery and return, I don't see anywhere that there could be a connection for an additional one either so I don't think I'm missing it. Also there isn't anywhere on the turbo or inlet manifold that would hold a pipe that would go to the pump? Do you have a picture or a link to a picture so I can confirm the setup on my engine. I'm going to pop out now to double check. Many thanks again. Martin

Edited by marty1979 on 14/11/2007 at 18:56

Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
This is the pump I have.

cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item...6

If this specific pump doesn't have the pipe to tell when the boost is on, how the hell does it know at all? I'm seriously confused. I'm almost 100% sure that this pipe doesn't exist on my engine. Many thanks again. Martin
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
It is very smokey at idle, even after driving for an hour. It doesn't smoke straight the way but it does get very smokey. I'm thinking it's getting to much fuel at idle, and not enough when driving. Or not enough air at idle and not enough fuel whilst driving. Super confused.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Screwloose
Martin

For some reason; a lot of the posts that I did last night seem to have disappeared?

I did one asking for the engine code as that pump doesn't look right. Have you definitely got a turbo?
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
Hi Screwloose. Strange about the dissapearing posts? Yes I definately have a turbo because I took it off to have a look at the wastegate, I also cleaned out the inlet manifold and egr valve as they were full of oily stuff. I did think that the pump didn't look right myself until I saw that one on ebay, which is exactly the same as the one I have. I've seen other pumps that have that tube that you mentioned, mine doesn't have that and there are no missing pipes from the turbo or inlet manifold. I can only assume that the boost diaphragm is controlled by an ecu of some sort? I'm running out of things to check, the only thing I haven't checked is the timing. I forgot to mention that half throttle gives better acceleration than full, until 4000 rev's then it takes off. Thanks in advance. Martin
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Screwloose
Martin

Have a look on the VIN plate for "moteur" or "ENG" There should be two or three letters to ID this weird unit. That solenoid must be a fuel quantity adjuster, not a timing solenoid, if there is no aneroid unit.

The only non-intercooled 1.8 TD that I can recall was in the Courier - but there are so many versions....
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Pugugly {P}
Screwloose,

There;s no edited trail or deleted posts on the thread, dunno what happened there Tech rarely needs to be edited over and above some subject line tweaks. None of us would have binned anything of yours without reference.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Screwloose
PU
None of us
would have binned anything of yours without reference.


In that case my dig at a fast fit chain on the Focus brakes thread went missing too.......

[Not exactly unsurprisingly....]

It was, unusually, taking over 30 seconds to post a reply last night; this one and at least one other, on duggie's 406 thread, weren't there this morning.

[Maybe it was the pixies...]

{For the record, it wasn't me either, but I have just edited something in this}

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/11/2007 at 19:32

Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
Here is the complete VIN number: WFONXXGCANWT55264

I couldn't find any other information relating to the vehicle. When I do one of those free registration checks it does come back as a turbo diesel. Thanks for your time screwloose. Martin
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Screwloose
Martin

Doesn't it have one of those silver plates with axle weights etc. on it? On the bonnet slam panel above the O/S headlight?
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
Ah yes it does.

Silver plate above drivers side headlight:

B - E11*93/81*0054*01
RV - WFONXXGCANWT55264
Q 1735 KG
8 2635 KG
54 920 KG
17 900 KG
1 - ANL

There is a black plate aswell, above the near side headlight:

09.04 417076.j 058
KOM 5-D RHD
RR

That's definately all there is. Sorry about all this messing around.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - jc2
Escorts were available as 60ps-non-turbo,70ps-turbo and 90ps turbo+intercooler.

60ps-RTE,RTF,RTH
70ps-RVA
90ps-RFD,RFK,RFS
The RV shown on the plate means it is a 70ps. and the WT in the VIN says it was built 04/98.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Screwloose
Martin

Got it. It's an Endura RVA engine - a very odd one, 70hp, between the N/A unit at 60 and the normal RFA turbo at 90.

The info only shows a fuel timing solenoid - no on-boost fuel adjustment at all on these. [That accounts for the missing 20hp...]

These will run without the electronics working at all; so checking the relevant fuses [see handbook] might be a good start.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
Wow, where do you get all this info from? Awesome. One question though, I've checked all fuses at the central fuse box(drivers side footwell) and all are intact. Also I've checked the fuses at the battery, all ok, I don't know of any other fuse locations but I'll check the handbook, I also have a haynes manual. Being that it works only very late in the rev range, and sometimes very rarely when pulling off in first, do you think it could be a relay, or the fuel timing solenoid itself? I owe you a drink if I get this sorted through your help Screwloose. Many many thanks.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Screwloose
Martin

You can check for a live feed to the solenoid with the engine running; one of it's [disconnected] plug's pins should be at battery voltage.

If you take a feed and earth to it's pins, it should click once every time it's powered.

Alternatively; take it to a diesel specialist to have the live-data examined - that may give a clue to what's going on.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
Ok that sounds like a plan, I'll let you know how I get on. Many thanks for all your time and help. Martin
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
FANTASTIC NEWS! It's sorted, thanks to Screwloose. It was the solenoid at fault. I snipped one of the wires going to it and the idle cleared up, and the power is back. All I need to do is get a new part now. I can't thank you enough Screwloose, I owe you a drink.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Kotch
It's such a releif to find this forum.

I have a 1998 Escort (Encore I think) 1.8 TD without the intercooler. It's done 95000 miles and had the fuel pump reconditioned (not replaced) about 30,000 miles ago. It has the same symptoms as it had when the pump was reconed.

It has intermittent loss of power, now more often loss than not. Sometimes when it's cold the revs will almost die completely then it comes back. Most of the time it's like it's just holding back, almost as though I'm driving with a heavy load or into a strong gusting wind. Occasionally it'll have a good day and it'll fly. I can't say at what revs this happens as it's not got a rev counter but i wouldn't say it happens more in one rev range than another.

I have been beginning to suspect that the pump recon (which seemed to do the trick for about a year) wasn't very good and I have been thinking about shelling out for a brand new one. (I've gone off recons.) But now I wonder if it isn't something else entirely.

Any thoughts?
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
The same car and engine as mine, and by the sounds of it the same problem. I've just replaced the advance solenoid on my pump as it was dead, now the car runs perfectly. The solenoid in question is at the front of the pump as you're looking at it, it looks like a cylinder shape with a cable coming out the side. If you can, remove some of the sleeve from the cable and cut one of the wires inside, make sure you can reverse this if you have to, and do this with the ignition off. I did this to confirm that it was the solenoid at fault, as soon as I fired up the engine it sounded better instantly, I bought a replacement part from Ebay for £35 delivered, ford wanted £120+vat.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - AndyT
I think I'm missing something marty, your engine ran rough with the advance solenoid operating, so you cut a wire which stopped the solenoid from operating. Would that not indicate that the problem was/is whatever controls the solenoid is faulty, rather than the solenoid itself??

Edited by AndyT on 23/11/2007 at 18:14

Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - DP
I thought it was me being daft. I don't get it either.

Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
.*********
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
I cut one of the wires to the solenoid to confirm that there was power getting to it. Out of interest I fired up the car to see if any difference was made by doing this, the difference was clear. The lumpy idle I had before was gone, and a quick run around the block showed that the power loss I had was no more. When I parked back up I touched the wires on and off and the lumpy idle returned each time I touched the wires together. To me this confirmed that the solenoid was at fault. I drove for a few days with it disconnected until I got my new part through, and I noticed that when I started the car first thing in the morning the engine was really knocky until it got warm. Now I've fitted the new part everything is fine, it runs perfectly. Sorry for any confusion earlier, even I was confused when I read the post back.
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - Kotch
Hi, me again, with the identical escort. I've been trying sort out some pictures. Thanks for the clarification as it's makes a bit more sense to me now too. It's interesting you mention the knocky bit as I frequently have that too, although not all the time and I've only noticed it when cold. However you seemed to suggest that the knocking happened after you disconnected the solenoid? My solenoid is still connected, or at least I haven't cut any wires yet.
I had a look and there is a round lump on the front side (towards the radiator), sort of like an aluminium cap, but I can't see any wires going to it. I'm beginning to be more confident that we are talking about the same bit but I am reluctant to do anything drastic until I know for sure. Someone here at work has suggested that, as my problem is intermittent, it may just be the connector to the solenoid. I have taken a picture of the pump, is there any way I can post it to this forum?
Delayed Turbo, fuel delivery problem? - marty1979
Hi Kotch. The solenoid in question looks like this:-

tinyurl.com/3d2mrz

You can see the wires going into it. The wires are connected to the multi plug thats clipped onto the slam panel just above the radiator, the plastic trunking that you will see also holds the wires for the stop solenoid and the potentiometer on top of the throttle lever. If there isn't any wires connected to the solenoid then that would explain a few things.

Wow congratulations you win second prize for the longest ever link (175 characters long): Miraculously shrunk to 25 by the use of some internet trickery (TinyURL) to just 25 thus making the post readable !

Edited by Pugugly {P} on 03/12/2007 at 18:29

 

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