Erk! I have the same problem with my 2001 Grand Espace cutting out randomly. We drove from Essex to Newbury and the car cut out 9 times while driving steady at 70 mph. Pretty scary, but we got very good at putting it in neutral and turning the engine off then on while moving. Only vaguely safe when going in a straight line, I don't advise while cornering...
The off/on trick worked every time. There was no loss of power or smoke, the car just shut down the engine.
I am going to talk to the independent garage and have them look at and try a few things before going for the new injector they tell me I 'might' need. @£366 for this 'test' I'd rather try a few cheaper things first based on this forum feedback. If we eventually find the true fix for this (in our case at least) I'll post details.
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have fitted tdc sensor and section of loom . ran great for the first 3 weeks! and has cut out twice since , it has to be electrical as there is no warning ( smoke , running limp etc ) its just like switching the ignition off.
SQ
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/10/2008 at 18:58
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hi have a 2.2dci espace with the cutting out problem 95000mls i fix cars my self so investigated this little problem i cleaned my egr valve as it was blocked changed all filters but still cut out so when the problem ocours usualy on idle or comoing to a stop or coming down gears i found that the wiring must be at fault so had a chat with a good mate about it so phoned renault read the fault to them i must say this it is a common fault with all espaces and some 2.2dci motors here goes hope this helps eveyone when the car cuts out it sometimes starts and others it will not THE ANSWER at the high pressure air conditioning pipe on the compresser the thick black pipe if you look down at the rear of the atlrternator you will see many black insulted cable protectors follow the high pressure pipe down you will see the the protector for the injector power supply is chaffing against the high pressure aluminium pipe this in turn chaffed the protective shield to the wiring this shorts out the injectors or injector giving the ecu a fault code that it has a injector fault what to do is remove the steel bracket from the powersteering pump to the throttle body hives room to get hand down then remove the small bracket supporting the high pressure pipe at this stage you can pull the harness away from the pipe you may notice that the protective shield around the wiring has rubed through remowe this turn the protective shield around and reroute the wiring away from the pipe and any other metal parts . I HAVE DONE THIS TO MY OWN ESPACE AND IT WORKS PERFECT NO MORE CUTTING OUT it seems that the aluminium pipe shorts out the electric supplyto the injectors ihope this helps as renault know about this but not all dealers
Edited by espace problem on 27/10/2008 at 20:08
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Great post "Espace Problem". Thanks for sharing your knowledge. This could well be the cure for those who've tried everything else. If Renault really do know about this issue it's pretty disgraceful that they haven't let their dealers know that there might be a very simple and cost-effective fix. I'd be well annoyed if I'd had expensive injector replacements done unnecessarily.
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Have had problem similar to others over the years loss of power which has always cleared its self after a day or 2.
Have also had problems starting but a clean of the crank sensor has sorted this.
2.2DCI Race 50k
But a few weeks ago car cut out when driving with the red stop light.
Car would not restart checked the sensor which i also replaced with new one today.
Have replaced the relay for the glow plug supply (RAC recommendation)
At initial breakdown RAC laptop plugged into the diagnostic port reported no faults.
Only way to get home was to start the car with easy start.
Tried to use the car again starting with easy start but cut out on a roundabout after about 5-10 mins driving would only start with easy start to get me back home.
Have since cleaned the Egr valve.
I have been looking for wiring faults but cannot find any as yet is it possible to be emailed a picture with arrow pointing at the most likely place that the fault is not quite pin pointed with the description from escrap02 although I am confident this is the last resort before a expensive renault garage has a look. Please can any one help and email me at easybayuk@mac.com
Thank you
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Doc Iowe
That sounds very like low fuel pressure in the rail; get an injector leak-off test done and the pump output pressure checked.
There should be codes stored.
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Thanks for your fast response will look into this will have a chat to my local garage to see if they have tools for the job.
Forgot to mention as well last night after fitting new crank sensor, when i tried to start the car the abs light was flickering then the stop light came on.
After this attempt i switch the ing on and wait for ok which comes on after a few seconds but then without cranking over the stop light comes on after a few seconds, could this be indicating another problem?
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Check the brake fluid level and the wiring to it's sensor.
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Hi
Thank you for your guidance have carried out a leak-off test and by turning engine over not starting, only got fuel from number 4 into the container and about 2" of the tubing to the other inj had fuel in so i feel number four is duff. Is it worth repeating the test starting the car with easy start to be sure of the results?
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Hi Screwloose
Did make an inj leak of test kit with some bottles and a bit of tubing and the connectors of the net, from united diesel. Bingo number 4 inj faulty.
Have now had this replaced and fires up instantly no more easy start.
Many thanks indeed for your guidance :-)
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hi
my husband has just bought a renault espace 2.2dci 2002, we were already aware that it had a few problems. my husband is a mechanic so he thought he could fix it! at first we thought it was the injectors, so i googled to find cheap injectors and stumbled across this sight, now i am horrified, as the espace has similar syptoms!! it cuts out when accelerating or when u accelerate hard, the dash goes blank, after a few mins it will start again and the dash comes back on a few mins later, its very odd and my hubby doesnt think it the injectors causing this problem!! we really want to solve these problems because its a lovely car, but im not goin to drive it like that because when it cuts out as some other people have said its very hard to steer or brake, and im terrifed id crash, and having very young children, thats not a good idea!!!
if anyone has any ideas as to how to solve this problem it would be very much apriciated, there are many things we could try,its just the cost we are concirned about!!!!
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This is the ANSWER, I've a 2002 2.2 dci with 72k on the clock, had it a year now, was fine until 3 weeks ago, got the dreaded cut out when driving, must confess that I had heard about this before I bought the car & thought with 48 years experience as an engineer, it shouldn't be a problem to me, big joke, tried the diagnostics with a local garage, comes up injectors, OK so I pull the injectors out & have them checked, all OK,diagnostics also says fuel rail, not having that, it's just a pipe, tried a governor valve, not that,either. I've got it down to a fine art with the cutting out on the move,clutch down, ignition off, ignition on, clutch up & away we go, driving around waiting an idea to hit me, meanwhile I'm reading this column & saw this, He's right, the wiring loom chaffs between the pipe & engine bolts, there's some cloth jointing tape put there by Renault, which had been worn away, I couldn't see any thing obvious like bare wires, anyway, I fitted some conduit over that section & lo & behold, IT'S CURED. PRAISE BE TO THIS MAN.
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Well done!
Years ago a friend with a black Ford Fiesta knocked on my door. His car would not cross the nearby hump-backed bridge but it would run OK in reverse. The fault seemed like a faulty capacitor on the points or possibly fuel starvation so a lawn mower tank was fitted to a roof-rack bar but it wasn't that. Fat sparks were also present so it couldn't be that? Of course with the car being black and with it being pitch dark with no moon or stars it was hard to see anything with a feeble torch (no LED torches in those days!) This was so vexing that we had to go for a pint and after that I towed the car to his home.
The next day in daylight all became clear. There was a wire that ran from the ignition coil ballast resistor to the starter motor terminal. The wire had fallen off the motor and was resting on the car bodywork. Curiously the wire had rubbed through the paint at the point where the engine had been pulling hard but when running in reverse the wire rested on good paint! For a car to be able to run backwards OK but to not be able to go forwards uphill was a most unusual fault. GRRRRR!
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Right, I think the garage fixed mine. As promised I said I'd report back if it seemed to fix the issue. With mine, they replaced a single injector that was reporting pressure faults at the time it stopped. They had to take it for a drive while hooked up to their monitors as it did not dump a code into the computer, so they had to 'see' it happen live to capture the status of all the engine components at time of failure. After about an hour of driving up and down (of course, I got charged...) it finally cut out on them and gave them a fright while going round a corner up a hill! Glad someone else (esp from the garage) finally got to appreciate just how scary this can be.
I do hope that it was the injector, and it will not start breaking down again in a few weeks. If it does, I'l let you know. One of the first things I'll try if it does is the loom check as per the 'espace problem' post.
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Help please. I am lost with the original discussion thread (volume 1) which turned into this volume-2, that seems to gone off my 'limp mode' problem (discussed in volume-1).
So we have a 2004 2.2 DCI Espace, (60,000 Miles), driving around town no problem what so ever, starts fine, whatever the weather. When driving on motorways, 70mph combined with accelerating up a hill and/or coming out of a service station, accelerating hard (but not excessive) getting to 55+mph the little orange (wave sign) warning light comes on, following by a total lack of acceleration. So you the car keeps moving forward for as long as it takes to slow naturally, when you try to change down the gears and rev.up again, you have no power, does seem to get above 2500rpm etc.. So if we pull over (and forced to sit on the hard shoulder), turn it off, and re-start often the light/problem goes away.
When on holiday in France we had this motorway induced limp-mode problem so many times on the journey down, we went to a friendly Renault garage, hoked to their computer, new EGR value fitted, told (in french of course) it's now fixed, drove 1/2 mile down the road.......warning light again (but no cut out/limp mode). So straight back to same garage, they spent 4 hours looking, couldn't find a problem (but didn't charge me i might add, clearly French Renault garages are friendly!!). They said to see what happens. We then drove, very nervously 400 miles motorway & hills back from France, no problem, then 'limp mode' (whilst acelerating having been to service station on motorway). So again onto hard shoulder, turn off/on, another 400 miles to home with no problems.
Since then, post new EGR, driving around town is no problem for 2000+ miles, makes you very happy with the car. That said, I simply do not trust the car to not do it again when driving on the motorway for an extended period.
Help, what is the magic answer ? Which answer from all these threads ?
(By the way I also contacted Renault, via their UK web site for complaint, got an 'incident number', been in dialogue with them, directed them to these Honest John threads. They admit did seem a common problem, but did not tell me the answer......i expect they will next tell me to go to my local Renault Garage, charge me a fortune and not fix it).
So from Volume-2 thread, what's the answer to this limp-mode problem please ? Many many thanks, I am half considering selling the car, leaving Renault altogether to going for a Petrol (how desperate am i ?)
(oh and had new injector about 3000 miles before i had this new EGR fitted in France).
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Clogs - My deepest sympathy. As an ex-owner of one of these I really can't stress enough how much I urge you to sell it. I suffered mine for two long years and they never did manage to completely cure it. Everything you describe sounds familiar. Mine broke down or went "limp" so many times I eventually lost count. It was quite the worst car I have ever had, which is a shame because when it did go it was very useful. Do yourself a favour, get rid of it.
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clogs
Any hard detail on what codes were found and what was done to action them?
Unfortuately, HB is right. The unreliability of Renaults is systemic. Virtually every one of their 1,000s of components is only "just" functioning - in the good old BL way - and no amount of repair can fix something that was born dying.
This leads to demotivated service staff who, however good, eventually end up just turning up for the money and doing just enough to cover their back-sides.
Edited by Screwloose on 27/11/2008 at 20:37
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Have had a 2.2 dci for 7 years and probably spent the original cost of the car. However, fell in love on first drive and can't get rid. In last 12 months had rear hatch lock replaced, new clutch master cylinder and just recently power asisted steering went.
Last night new mystery light not mentioed in handbook. A red light in the warning section combined with 5-6 beeps. Due to the warning symbols being scrambled and unreadable after a new wiring loom many years ago i can't read what the problem is. Checked all fluids and everything appears Ok. Any clues?
I should really just get rid but no one wants them and i want to try and recoup some of the costs incuured with some troble free driving. Am i mad?
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Yes definitely, I reckon your bills will only get worse as the mileage mounts
I have a 4.5 yr old Espace 2.2dcii 65000 miles which has been diagnosed with a split inlet manifold...needless to say Renault Customer Services couldn?t care less despite this obviously being a manufacturing fault.
Have you experienced such problems and do you know what would cause such problems?
Renault customer services stink - look at this link www.renault4.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2061
Renault fill the bottom three places (out of 90,000 Models apparently) in the Which? Car Customer Satisfaction Survey - The Espace coming last - when are Renault going to do anything to make sure that customers buy another Renault? I am going to change my car...guess what I?ll NEVER buy another Renault.
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We have a 3.0 DCI with intermittent loss of power etc. The problem was fixed by replacing the fuel pump and related parts. Cost £4K plus. Renault UK refused to compensate so we have sued them and the garage from which we bought the vehicle. The case in the small claims court is coming up and will be heard this month.
Guesss what, we won't be buying another Renault.
See the related posts on Renault Espace 2003 3.0 DCI Turbo Failure, Thread Author Garrett Barker.
Rags.
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Hi i've just read through a lot of the threads on this site and it seems a lot of others have had the same problem as we have got ... whilst driving along it will just die , coast to a stop .. restart and it will normally start up again and may be ok then for a few days ... highly dangerous in the fast lane of a motorway ! seems that people have spent oodles of dosh at renault garages only to have the same thing happen again soon afterwards .... has anyone found a long term cure ? ours is a 2002 2.2 diesal race
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The only long term cure for this fault is to sell it.
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Wish I'd come across this a couple of years ago before I bought the dreaded Mk3 Espace 2.2 dci
Mine is now in limp mode with intermittent black smoke coming out the back.
My normal garage has had a look and says the EGR valve is in a bad way although theres nothing to say that once that is remedied other troubles dont lie head. In fact he has gone as far to say that he doesnt want to tackle it
The car doesnt owe me anything so I am considering cutting my losses as I could see myself putting £1000 into this when the car is plummetting in price
Any views would be appreciated
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I had a cut out problem with an Espace 2.2 DCI at high speed in the fast lane of the motorway yesterday. Very dangerous. It then continued to cut out about every ten minutes for the rest of the journey. I found that I could carry on without stopping by driving slowly and switching the ignition switch back one and then on again. But of course this is a risky thing to be doing as you could accidently turn it all the way off and lock the steering :-(
I have also had many other very expensive problems with this car and also a Laguna.
This problem is well known and I think Renault are an utter disgrace. I will never buy another Renault and will discourage everyone I know from doing so. Don't be tempted by any of their new cars. They look nice but Renault have one of the worst reliability records of all manufacturers and treat their customers very badly when things go wrong. This issue should definately be featured on BBC WatchDog or somewhere as it is so dangerous.
For anyone that doesn't know, an EGR valve is controlled by the engine management system and it diverts some of the exhaust gas (which is effectively an inert gas incapable of combustion) into the air inlet under certain conditions. It does this to lower the combustion temperature. Their are two reasons for doing this. One is to lower the NOX emissions and the other is to keep the combustion temperature down to protect engine components, particularly the turbo.
After reading this post (and others) I took out the EGR valve and sure enough it was very badly clogged with thick, sludgy oil. I believe the source of this oil is a leaky seal in the turbo. I would guess that there is nothing wrong with the valve other than this.
I cleaned it with parafin and also cleaned as best I could in the hole that it came out of (I am sure a professional mechanic would dismantle the whole body and clean it properly).
From what I could see I would say almost definately that the valve was stuck almost, if not completely, closed. So possibly the problem with the engine cut out under heavy load was due to a component somewhere overheating (the engine coolant wasn't overheating though).
I will know if this has fixed the problem when I drive the car on the motorway on Monday.
I have worked professionally on engine management software and vehicle diagnostics and I would definately discourage blanking off the exhaust gas as a solution to this problem (as some people are suggesting). If my diagnosis is correct, then this will actually make the problem no better (or even worse if the valve wasn't completely blocked before).
For anyone that wants to try cleaning the EGR valve themselves, it is located under the air filter, on the left of the inlet pipe. It is secured by three 10mm bolts (you will need a miniture socket set with extensions and a universal joint thingy as they are quite tricky to access). I found that, due to the gunge, it was very difficult to extract the valve and it needed a lot of twisting and pulling.
I have not experienced the power loss due to limp-home mode being entered but maybe this is the next stage, or a variation of the problem. Possibly the vehicle diagnostics has detected that the EGR valve is malfunctioning. But it is also possible that another component has been blocked or damaged.
Perhaps the solution (for people who would prefer to keep their car) is to have the EGR valve regularly cleaned (say once a year).
Hope this has helped someone.
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Correction to my last post - the EGR valve is on ther right of the inlet pipe not the left.
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hi
i have just read through these posts
thank goodness i don't own one a renault diesel.
reading through it it would seem to be a good idea to put all the pieces that have seemed to do some good into a diy guide for the people willing and competent to try for themselves.
i have put together some of the points i have read which seem to other hope of fixing the problem.
perhaps the first thing, if under warranty get it back to renault as soon as. let them have the problem.
if not here is a list of fixes.
from espace problem's post.
hi have a 2.2dci espace with the cutting out problem 95000mls i fix cars my self so investigated this little problem i cleaned my egr valve as it was blocked
changed all filters but still cut out so when the problem ocours usualy on idle or comoing to a stop or coming down gears i found that the wiring must be at fault so had a chat with a good mate about it so phoned renault read the fault to them i must say this it is a common fault with all espaces and some 2.2dci motors here goes hope this helps eveyone when the car cuts out it sometimes starts and others it will not THE ANSWER at the high pressure air conditioning pipe on the compresser the thick black pipe if you look down at the rear of the atlrternator you will see many black insulted cable protectors follow the high pressure pipe down you will see the the protector for the injector power supply is chaffing against the high pressure aluminium pipe this in turn chaffed the protective shield to the wiring this shorts out the injectors or injector giving the ecu a fault code that it has a injector fault what to do is remove the steel bracket from the powersteering pump to the throttle body hives room to get hand down then remove the small bracket supporting the high pressure pipe at this stage you can pull the harness away from the pipe you may notice that the protective shield around the wiring has rubed through remowe this turn the protective shield around and reroute the wiring away from the pipe and any other metal parts . I HAVE DONE THIS TO MY OWN ESPACE AND IT WORKS PERFECT NO MORE CUTTING OUT it seems that the aluminium pipe shorts out the electric supplyto the injectors ihope this helps as renault know about this but not all dealers.
from various posts
clean out the egr valve
from h man post
my espace 2.2 cdi 2001 with the g9t motor cut out when on auto routes.
i have just replaced the tdc sensor and also about 7 inches of loom from the sensor and the motor seems alot smoother and pulls better and hasn't cut out yet!!!
i have the renault part no. for both items;
sensor 7701477748
loom 8200300322
it seems odd that the do a section of wiring, and possible they have had trouble in the past.
lastly, use good quality fuel. give it a treat with shell optimax or bp ultimate every now and then.
i know this is not a complete answer to the problem and it would be better done by someone with first hand knowledge of this, who has worked the problem.
hope this helps some
Edited by Webmaster on 27/04/2009 at 01:46
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Focusman,
I have had a bit of trouble understanding your post. Can you just provide a step by step approach to solving this problem as I think it sounds that it will stop my problem of engine cut out when coasting to stop at lights.
Also what is "limp mode"?
Many Thanks.
Mega Snipquote!!!!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 16/05/2009 at 21:23
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hi
rennoschmeno
all i have done after reading through all the post was to try and put them together in some logical way so if you had the egr problem you could approach in the right order. i tried to put the items which have little or no costs involved before going onto the dearer fixes.
as i posted i do not have an espace and that someone who as an espace and has first hand knowledge of fixing this problem would be the ideal person to do a definite approach to the problem as i might/probably have missed some important point. so what i would do if it was my problem would be to sit down with a pen and paper and read through all the post on this problem noting the fixes that have worked for different people then put them in a cost order. then work through the list on your espace hopefully it can be fixed before it gets to the dearer manufacturers costs.
i take it your espace is out of warranty
what is limp mode (the following is from wikianswers)
Your engine management and maybe even your transmission is controlled by the ECU. As you know, all computers crash, all software has bugs, and mechanical equipment fails. As such, many ECU units are fitted with a 'limp home mode'. When it detects that something semi-serious is wrong, it enters the limp mode, which means that the engine won't rev beyond a pre-programmed speed, you can't accelerate very fast, or you may indeed be speed-restricted to 40 mph or similar. The transmission may even stay in one or two gears. Bad? Well, no, not really: The alternative would be to either let you drive at regular speeds, with the danger of letting you trash your car (expensive repair, means happy repair people, but angry driver), or stopping you from going anywhere (expensive recovery and stranded on the side of the road means happy recovery company, but angry driver).
hope this is a bit clearer
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I had similar issues.
X reg DCI Expression 2.2
62K miles.
Car started to fault 2 years ago with the engine warning light and loss of power.
Recently failure caused car to stop entirely and had to let car to settle for 5 mins before retrying. Went to main dealer 3 times each time unable to find the fault. Did not stop them charging me for new glow plugs. (£200)
Ended up selling car to dealer for cash still a loss on the deal but at least I can look for a reliable car.
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After reading this post (and others) I took out the EGR valve and sure enough it was very badly clogged with thick sludgy oil. I believe the source of this oil is a leaky seal in the turbo. I would guess that there is nothing wrong with the valve other than this.
Snipquote - please don't quote the whole message you're replying to; a brief summary is enough
I have the same problem - car cuts out (not when cold) as soon as any pressure is put on the engine turn the ignition on and off immediately and it works again for a little longer. Drive the car really really gently (inc no overtaking or uphill driving) and it doesnt do it. Been to renault they ran a diagnostic check and replaced the fuel temp sesor (why as this could not have caused the issues I described). Now been to a diesl specialist who worked on the car for free - thank you Marc from Parkinsons Grimsby - but cant eb sure of whats the cause. Replaced the fuel filter now thinking about the injectors - but replace or recon ? Recon may not sort a hairline crack ?
Lots of people talk EGR valves but a few people I have spoken to dont believe this would be the issue - but people who are talking about replacing them or cleaning them - on this forum - are not coming back to tell us if it works - if you find a resolution please come back and let us all know.
I want to know if I should look at the EGR first etc etc
Thanks
Matt
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 27/07/2009 at 13:29
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My 2.2 dti espace is getting worse now , i can only keep it going by using very light acceleration, if you put your foot down a bit to hard it will just die ! if you turn the key off and back on quickly it will run again
something i discovered by accident today ... on the bulkhead behind the battery is an electrically operated vacuum switch the outlet of which goes down to the turbo , i forgot to put the connector back before i did a ten mile trip and found that the power was very poor as though the turbo wasn't doing anything , but it didn't cut out once ! are there any diesel experts out there who might know why this should happen ?
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I think I may have the solution to your problem and possibly others on this thread.
To answer you question about the vacuum switch first: the wastegate (which basically limits the turbo power to prevent the turbo and engine overheating (by wasting a portion of the exhaust gas which powers the turbo)) is operated by a vacuum valve. If this valve is not supplied with a vacuum feed the engine management system will de-rate the system. You wont get the cut out but neither will you get any useful power (I tried that !).
Here's my experience:
After many weeks of thrashing the car up and down the motorway at high speed, the engine cut out in the fast lane (see my earlier post for the details).
I cleaned the EGR valve which was almost completely blocked.
On the next long journey, the problem seemed to be fixed. However, after about 200 miles, the problem returned and got progressively worse.
I opened up the EGR valve again but it was clear.
The problem got worse and worse and the car was was virtually un-drivable, particularly as it would frequently cut out just after pulling away from a junction.
I ended up driving it at 65 mph in 3rd gear as it tended to cut out less. On the last journey down the motorway, white smoke started to billow out of the back. It wasn't until I reached my destination that I realised that it was not coming from the exaust. Diesel oil was leaking profusely from one of the injectors, dripping onto the hot engine casing and exhuast and vapourising. The back windscreen was soaked in diesel oil. This was not only dangerous for me (although to be honest I would have been quite happy if it had burst into flames :-) ) but also for other road users as diesel oil on the road is lethal.
I had the injector replaced and the problem disapeared. The injector specialist originally missed the hairline crack in the injector body as the injector only leaked at high pressure.
Here are the symptoms I was getting:
1. Engine cut out (noteably, this was a deliberate engine-management-system cut out because the red square fault indication lit and the engine would always re-start when the ignition was re-cycled). Originally only at high load but as the problem got worse, the cut out began to happen at progressively lower loads.
2. The EGR valve was blocked. Cleaning it initially helped but the problem returned and got progressively worse.
3. There was evidence of a leaky turbo bearing as there was a film of oil in the intake pipe and the EGR was blocked by thick sludgy burnt oil.
4. The problem was definately temperature related. The problem began in early Spring and on cool evenings it was significantly reduced. When I operated the back windscreen washer the problem reduced (I believe this was because the front headlamps were also washed and the water splashed into the engine compartment and over the injector). The worst scenario of all was after coming off the motorway. This was the heat inertia effect - ie engine still emitting a vast quantity of heat but no high speed airflow to disipate it.
Here is my theory about what happened to cause the problem:
1. The turbo bearing sprung a small oil leak.
2. Small quantities of oil leaked into the EGR exaust gas, which eventually blocked the EGR valve.
3. With the EGR valve out of action, the engine ran hotter than normal and one of the injectors developed a heat induced crack (note how enclosed, confined and insulated the area around the injectors is on this vehicle and note the position of the exhaust manifold and remember that heat rises).
4. Cracks will open at high pressure (high load) and close at lower loads. Heat induced cracks will also open and close as the temperature varies.
5. The engine management system will definately be checking for high presure diesel leaks and will definately cut the engine if it detects one as this is a potentially lethal event.
6. Initially there will be very little evidence of a leak because the system cuts the pressure as soon as a leak is detected,
7. Cleaning or replacing the EGR valve may initially seem to solve the problem because the engine will start to run cooler again. However the damage is already done and can only get worse. (many posts report that an EGR clean/replace only temporarily fixes the problem).
Here is my recomendation for solving the problem:
1. As an emergency "get home" or as a way of diagnosing the problem you could remove the bonnet as this will provide plenty of ventilation in the area that needs it. I have never tried this and there may be a good reason not to do this that I haven't thought of though (especially if it's raining).
2. Clean the EGR valve (don't waste money having it replaced). See my earlier post and others. Have it regularly checked / cleaned.
3. Check for the tell tale sign of oil in the inlet pipe and the EGR pipe.
4. If none of the injectors appear to be leaking then run the vehicle for several miles in a low gear at high speed and check again.
5. If you find a leak, you may want to consider finding a second hand injector as the new ones are over £200.
6. Do not mess around with the injection system if you do not know what you are doing -the fuel rail is at a very high pressure and acidents can be fatal.
Just a few other points from reading other post on this and other threads:
1. I think it very unlikely that an EGR fault will result in an engine-management-system engine cut out event. This is very drastic action that is not waranted by an EGR fault. EGR valves are not life and death, they reduce emissions and prevent the engine from overheating. High pressure fuel leaks and engine cut outs are life and death events.
2. In my opinion, blanking off the EGR valve will worsen this problem not cure it.
3. EMS cut out could happen for a variety of safety related problems so I think it's very probable that some of the other people posting here will have different problems to mine but the same outcome (engine cut out).
4. I did find a short on one of the cables against the air-con pipe but it was the oil temp sensor (I think) and it didn't solve the cut-out (remove the bottom cover to get access). The boost pressure sensor is also here and could also short.
5. In my opinion, don't waste money changing the TDC sensor. The problem (I think) was a leaky connector not the cable or sensor. If its leaking, clean it and use a sealant.
6. I never got around to buying a fault code reader to check the fault codes but my advice to any one is to treat every fault code with suspicion - they are very often false (I used to design engine management software).
7. When the engine cuts out, immediately push the clutch down. If you don't you are driving the injection pump under very unatural conditions and could cause some damage. You will also fill the engine management system with fault codes and probably end up in limp home mode which is no fun.
Hope this will help someone.
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Hi chester
thanks very much for all that information , i will be checking for any signs of a leak from the injectors tomorrow ! ... yes i've noticed oil in the intake pipe , i diconnected it where it comes back from the turbo on the right at the front of the engine ,it was spitting out a mist of oil ... do you think this being forced back into the engine would make much difference to the running temperature, i'll try fixing the bonnet open a few inches and removeing the padding from around the injectors to see if that alters things , as you sound to know about the workings of the ECU would you have any idea what is telling it to shut the engine down ..... would there be a heat sensor of some sort on the head do you think .......
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Hi Fen boy
No I dont think the oil in the intake will make any difference to the running temperature. I think the problem could be the oil that may be leaking from the exaust side of the turbo which could have clogged the EGR valve. This will make the engine run hotter at high load because this is when the EGR valve is used to reduce high combustion pressure peaks (which produce excessive heat).
I think the ECU may be shutting down because it has detected a high pressure fuel leak, possibly due to a hairline crack in one of the injectors.
I am guessing that the crack I had in the injector body was caused by it overheating, due to the EGR valve being blocked.
One thing that I have remembered is that on the motorway journey before the problem started, my windscreen washers were blocked. However I found that I could still wash the windscreen because what I assumed was the water from the headlight washers was appearing from under the bonnet and spilling over the windscreen. Did this water splash over a hot injector and crack it ? I suspect that this water may well splash onto the injectors because operating the headlamp washers did seem to reduce the cut out problem for a short while. Presumably the cold water cooled the injector and closed the hairline crack. So this is another possibility for how the injector body originaly cracked.
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HI achester you are right about the oil in the turbo pipe , i disconnected mine and tried it for a few miles with no turbo .... very poor acceleration and it still cut out , have checked for diesel leaks and cracks ,all seems to be in order , what we really need is a way of telling the ECU to mind it's own business ! , i don't mind if it wants to put a load of flashing lights on the dash , but to shut the engine is down right dangerous , is there any electronic experts out there who can do this i wonder ? ... mine is fine from cold for about the first mile ... then the cutting out starts !
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I think you may have the same problem I had - a very small crack in one of the injectors which starts to leak under high load until the ECU shuts down. I didn't notice any diesel leak either for the first few weeks of this problem. If this is your problem then the ECU is probably doing the right thing - ie you don't want diesel fuel everywhere including the road.
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Thanks all for useful intelligence on this thread. Had a 51 plate 2.2dci The Race bought in 2004. Developed classic limp problem in Summer 2004. Renault garage in Inverary cleaned EGR and advised changing driving style, more aggressive and avoid low mileage runs. That worked. Then cut out problem in 2006. Traced to injectors. One leaking and one in a bad way. All four replaced and years of trouble free motoring.
Two weeks before driving holiday to France this summer drunk driver hit my car twice when it was parked outside the house. Write off. Pressure to get replacement. Got another 2.2dci The Race 02 plate.
This has developed a stall and lurching/juddering problem. Stalls for no reason when idling but no 'service' light. Cuts out when driving but can be 'bump' started on the move without touching ignition or anything (but scary as no power steering). Can drive for miles without a problem and then get back in and have a lurching problem. Goes from a mild lurch to a major thump. Guessing injectors again.
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Hi Guys New to this forum but VERY much hoping not going down same road.. We have bought a Renault Grand Espace 2.2 diesel automatic which has been modified at the rear to take a wheelchair. The back end goes down via a pump so the ramp drops and I can get the wheelchair in, its a 05 plate. We found if we drive it at 70mph it drinks the diesel like nothing so we keep it at around 60mph and use cruise control. Lately we have found that she was slow to pull away from traffic lights or junctions but because shes a big car and also has my husband at 24stone plus very heavy motorised wheelchair (200kg alone) we didnt expect it to race. We have just come back from scotland to wales taking 9hrs but got caught in traffic jam on M6 and had to crawl for nearly 2hrs and of course it drank the fuel so called in at services for top up, 90 mins later we we stopped at service for 30mins break. All seemed fine got up the motorway 15 mins later light came on as we went up incline and ilooking it up says either water in fuel filter or electronic problem call your dealer. The car then went into LIMP mode. Pulled over on very scary M4 and got rescued and home 4 hours later. They had to get a taxi as husband couldnt not get into rescue truck. Worried now that on very little monies coming in you are all saying this is going to cost us big, what is the best solution to this guys as now having to limp it to renault dealer on monday, as its not through motability.
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This discussion started a looonnnnggg time ago but will add my two cents nonetheless just to confirm what was said earlier (in case someone else lands here). I had the same problem with my 2002 Espace III DCi, 165k miles, engine cutting out with no fault message, then restarted when flicking the ignition switch off/on, and the Renault garage was not able to find the problem ('time to get rid of the car'). Searching these forums led me to replace all the injectors and the problem was solved.
The Renault garage did do a diagnostic test on the injectors and the result was fine. So this fault (whereby one or more of the injectors returns too much fuel at certain loads as per other forum discussions) is not something the diagnostics pick up, nor does the onboard computer flag the issue as a fault when it happens. The engine simply stops dead with no error message on the dashboard at all.
I did discuss replacing the injectors with the Renault garage but the message was: difficult/impossible since it would be very hard to remove the injectors. Seized in place... So I did it myself. I even built a solid steel special tool to pull out the injectors but only after building this tool (a complete frame to sit over the cylinder head with pulley to grip and pull the injector) I realised that the injectors were actually very easy to extract!! Ordered new injectors, returned the old ones to get some money back and the engine runs absolutely fine. I think diesels should run till at least 200k miles...
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