Diesel Problem Vol2 - escrap02
I have a Renault Espace Mk3 2.2DCi 2002 that has done 75000 miles and I would like to know if any other Espace Diesel owners viewing this forum have experienced the following.

When coasting up to a stop (usually three or four minutes into a journey) the car stalls, especially up hill. It does not stall at high speed (like some other reports) and it is independent of temperature. The local Renault garage cannot find a reason. The diagnostic check said ?glow plugs? but at least they were honest to admit that that was unlikely to be the cause which saved me a waste of money but I am still none the wiser.

The stalling is not that serious but it could be. The loss of power which until you re-cycle the ignition means that the brakes and steering are much less effective which downhill on a bend leading up to a busy road might cause a scare. Along with all of the other reports on this website I think Renault really should be obliged to make these stalling problems a safety recall. Perhaps they do not know how to fix it.

I have also had the ?loss of power? two or three times since new when the car goes into ?limp mode?. The first was after only 12 months from purchase of the new car. I do not remember what they fixed as it was all under guarantee and I did not get a copy of the paperwork, but I do remember that it took them a few visits to the garage for them to fix the problem. I seem to remember that it might have been the TDC (Top Dead Centre) valve (or adjuster).

More recently, just before the (3 year) guarantee ran out the loss of power happened again and the garage changed the ERG valve about 3 months later when they finally figured out what they thought was wrong. It seems to have done the trick so far. Renault paid 80% of this claiming that if I paid 20% it would be guaranteed for a year. Seemed a reasonable compromise but that year has almost passed now.

My local non-Renault garage thinks that the ERG valve might still be the problem so I am thinking of having it blanked off, like some other respondents in this forum have suggested/done. Anyone able to tell me what they experienced after doing it. The car is booked in for next Friday so I am keen to get feedback before then.

Seems like I should think strongly about getting rid of this car but as I bought it expecting to keep it from new for 10 and possibly 15 years, I am still quite reluctant to do this especially after just paying for the 72000 cambelt change, the 72000 major service, and for coolant and brake fluid changes (not at a Renault garage but using Renault parts and a saving over Renault dealerships of 50% £600 for all this rather than £1200). Apart from the engine problems I think the car is excellent. As Parkers and other second hand car guides now mention the problems with the diesel variants, I expect the second hand value is plummeting like a stone.

It seems from what I have read (on this and other sites) that if I keep the Espace I am looking at a future of a new turbo every 100,000 miles, 4 new injectors every 100,000 miles, ERG valves every 50,000 miles and possibly much more before it gets to even 10 years old, let alone 15 and possibly much sooner. Pity as the bodywork will probably last forever.

Then if I do change the Espace for another car, any suggestions as to what large People Carrier I can buy to match the Espace Grand that will not have similar problems, what about a Renault Espace Petrol?, a Toyota Previa?, a Chrysler Voyager?, a Mercedes ???, a large Volvo?. Do all the modern diesel engines (common rail designs) suffer from the same high failure rates a few years down the line, or is it only Renault that got it so wrong?



Post renamed as suggested (by the OP amongst others) in now hidden replies. As Volume 1 reached 180 posts, this post has become Vol2 - Vol 1(below link) has been locked - continue debate in this one, far more logical than my original edit !

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=24...3

s
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
There are mixed views on blanking off EGR valves. Some people have done it (not specifically on Renaults) and have reported better performance and general running. My concern would be on the long term effect on the turbo as combustion temperatures will be raised. Whether it would be enough to cause a problem is open to debate.

Renault petrol engines are quite good and you would probably have fewer problems with one.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - escrap02
Took the car to my local (non Renault garage) who took the air filter and other stuff off so that they could get to the EGR valve. It was very dirty (carbonised) so they cleaned it up so that all the bits in the valve, moved all the distances they were meant to (so as to not confuse the engine management system) and then they made a small plate to blank off the intake from the exhaust. So a) it won't get dirty any longer b) it won't tell the engine management system there is a problem and cut off the ignition or enter limp mode and c) it won't (hopefully) continue to ruin the inside of the engine and (also hopefully) perhaps it will mean that the turbo/injectors/rest of the engine lasts somewhat longer.

As regards looking for a similiar case I visited my local Volve garage (i have had four Volvo's over the years - three of then estates) and I could not believe how small the luggage space was (compared to the Grand Espace with only three rear seets in a row). I mean the V70 Estate has less than half the luggage space, assuming you want to see out of the back window so you only pack to the level of the top of the rear seats. I then looked at a XC90 but with the back two seats folded it was not much better, perhaps 60% of the Espace. So perhaps the Petrol Engined Grand Espace is an option. But Isn't the 2.0 underpowered and the 3.0 too thirsty?
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
Both the 2.0 and 3.0 will be thirsty after the diesel. There's also a 3.5 Nissan engine which hauls the big body along nicely.

2.0 diesel is the one to have. New design.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - ticket to ride
My Espace DCI 2.2 2002 has done 43,000 mles all by me from new with a full Renault dealer service history. About 4 weeks ago it went into "limp" mode for a short time and then it happened 3 more times, usually on an incline. Phoned the dealer , told me it would be the EGR valve so decided to research further on the web. Got pretty terrified as I read all 180 threads on the Honestjohn site !!

Telephoned Renault UK customer services department (08000723372) who told me 1) Not a recognised fault !! 2) Cleaning EGR is not a service item 3) EGR cleaning would help 4) No out of warranty assistance from Renault 5) No modified parts issued .

Conclusions: 1).From threads it would appear that Renault dealer network can't solve the problem and embarks on a process of changing EGR, Injectors, glow plugs, turbo etc....all of which is chargeable to owner.
2). Renault has designed diesel engine with a defect which is does'nt want to recognise, possibly because it does not have a solution. Mine is not an isolated incident , I have 2 other friends with Espace 2.2DCI and they are all suffering.
3) This whole problem should be brought out into the public domaine, through programmes and publications such as Watchdog, Top Gear, JD Power, What Car

Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Screwloose
ticket to ride

Renault come clean? That's as likely as porcine aviation.

Limp-home isn't a common EGR symptom; [MIL light, black smoke, turbo shatters, screaming runaway, rod out the side, new engine; are the usual signs] so maybe a code read would be a good start. Facts are everything in diagnosis.

If you think HJ's thread is scary; don't look at Parker's....
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
Renault still make the 2.2 engine, so I wonder what changes have been made to the latest engines?
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - escrap02
Picking up the saga, as mentioned a few days ago my local non Renault garage cleaned up and blanked off the EGR valve. Guess what? It still stalls at low speed. Where to go next? Should I continue to pay for Renault Diagnostic charges which will probably find things that are not broken and suggest they need replacing. Does anyone think this is a Engine Mangement System software error and if so how can I test what version my car has and what is the latest version available.

By the way it might help other people to link vol1 and vol2 in some way, it ain't obvious. perhaps a link at the end of vol1 (now read only) that points to vol2.

No sooner wished for than done - there's a link to here there now ! - PU
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - LBHgraham
Oh no ! my Grand Espace 2002 2.2DCI is going in to the dealers tomorrow exibiting the same problems as the other 100 unlucky buyers of this vehicle,
although thankfully armed with this thread, should go someway to not getting ripped off.
I'll let everyone know what the outcome is, if any.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - lbhgraham
Back from the dealer

Diagnostic reveals one leaky injector, £485.00 to replace please! so much for not being ripped off.
trouble is from all the posts, is it going to cure the problem ? I dont think so.

Anyone know where I can get a supply of cheap injectors ? might aswell learn how to change them myself, as it looks like i'll be changing them on a regular basis.


Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - DP
Renault still make the 2.2 engine so I wonder what changes have been made to
the latest engines?


Just what I was thinking. Ditto the 1.9 which was also a whole heap of trouble early on, and had all its problems fixed a few years ago.

This means at the very least that Renault know the answer to the 2.2 problems. Getting them to pay for the work of course is something entirely different. I believe they performed the upgrades free of charge on the early 1.9's under the Yellow OTS scheme, assuming <100k on the clock and a full Renault service history.

Incidentally, I was talking to my old boss the other week who I haven't seen for ages. He's driving a 2002 Laguna 2.2dCi and reckons it's never given a day's trouble in nearly 100,000 miles. I'm not sure if the inconsistency is comforting or not. :-(

Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - ticket to ride
Hi Screwloose

"Facts are everything in diagnosis" ........... Exactly my point there are'nt any so we all go round in circles.

This problem has been running for 4 years now with no solution........ Or is the solution to sell the car ???

See what you mean about Parker's .........No wonder Renault's European market share and residual values are going through the floor ......... they're making bad cars
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - madf
Sell it. Renault are relying on owners to do its development.
madf
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
Yellow OTS - applies to the F9Q 1.9 dCi engine, up to 150,000 KMS or 93206 miles - although you may have trouble convincing Ren UK that it's not 90,000 miles. Car must be less than 5 years old and built before June 2003. The car does not have to be serviced by Renault but must have been at a VAT registered garage, using genuine Renault parts, specified oil and according to the service schedule. Interesting point is that the scheme has only another 10 months to run, since come June 2008 all affected models will be five years old...

Who knows what the 2.2dCi problem is? It is a shame that some of the earlier posters on this thread have not come back to update.

My money is still on the EGR, either the valve itself or the electronics that control it. Changing the former is no good if the latter is not playing properly.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
"Diagnostic reveals one leaky injector, £485.00 to replace please! "

Take it to an independent and have all four done for the money. Due to the dismantling involved, I would have all four replaced.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - ticket to ride
Have just completed 1600 miles in Spain & Portugal in my 2002 Race DCI. Went into "limp mode" on its way to Plymouth after 3 hour motorway run but cleared itself.......... fortunately. Since then no real problems with this 45k mile car (owned by me from new).

HOWEVER - I have changed to using the most expensive diesel available at the pumps such as Shell's new V formula. Could this and long runs have cleaned the EGR valve out ??? I still want to keep this car away from the Renault dealer network if possible.

A car that cost £22k - 4 & 1/2 years ago is now only worth £6K so I don't want to increase the pain by spending money unneccessarily at Renault main dealers.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - escrap02
I hope that this will be my final post to this forum (but I will check to see if anyone replies).

As stated earlier I got an independent garage to blank off the intake to the EGR valve and there were no real problems for a week or so. The stalling at low speed still happened so that was not connected to the EGR valve being clogged up (which it previously was).

Then 48 hrs before leaving for a holiday in Dorset, disaster. Renault goes into Limp Mode. Thinking it can't be EGR valve, is it injectors I took it back to the main Renault Dealer (Mill Lane Aldershot) who I cannot fault for diagnosis (now or at any time I took the car to them with a problem which was often).

What had happened is that a circular cross section part of the blanking plate (thin metal) had come detached and was stuck in the middle of the EGR value, stopping it from operating. Hence EMS puts car into limp mode.

Now the main dealer attitude to problem fixing, rather than extract small piece of metal from the valve for £20 or so, they changed the whole EGR valve and pipe at a cost tgo me at £500. Being about to depart on holiday the next day I was willing to pay up to get the car back on the road.

Now with new EGR valve, I was hoping all of my problem would go away. No way, the low speed stalling continued and believe me, stalling, loaded full up (family and luggage) down a Dorset hill on an outside bend with limited bracking and steering is not an experience I want to repeat.

There and then I vowed to sell the car. Next week I will take delivery of a Volkswagen Passat. It cost me £3K to swap the Renault for a similar aged Passat but that is life. £17K depreciation on the Renault for 76K miles is an expensive drive 22ppm depreciation + 12ppm petrol + 6ppm servicing and maintenace and tyres and that's not counting tax, insurance, breakdown cover etc - all this puts the Espace at over 46ppm

Please do not tell me the Passat is a bad buy. Please. please.

That is all from ESCRAP02 - SCRAP the 02 Espace.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
"+ 12ppm petrol "

That's your problem - you've been putting petrol in it :-)

Good luck with the VW, they're about average for reliability but should be better than this Espace.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - escrap02
12ppm "diesel" that's 37mpg at 98ppl. No I have not being putting petrol in it!

Fuel from a wide variety of sources including but not limited to Supermarkets.

I do not think the stalling is anything to do with fuel quality but the EGR clogging up and injector failure might be. I think the stalling I have suffered is related to the time at which the glow plugs stop being needed. This might be an Engine Management System issue or it might be due to glow plug failure but as the garage quoted me a large sum of money to take the engine out in order to drlll out the failed no 2 glow plug which had siezed in the head I could not take the trouble to find out if this is the fault. The stalling is always about 3 to 5 minutes into a journey and never at any other time. If you take the foot off the accelerator for more than a few seconds at this period of the car warming up, the it stalls. This can be at any speed but is usually at very low speeds.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - injection doc
escrap
"Fuel from a varity of scources" Certain fuels will clog both injectors & in particular cause gumming of the EGR valve. I cant say too much about fuel due to my links with fuel companies in the past but we could be warm is all I can say.
Have you noticed that others with mondeos TDC'is that run on good quality fuel only including myself have never had any injector trouble!
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - wurzel.e.k
Bit late I suppose,but you don't need to take the head off to get the heater plugs out, assuming yours are the 150mm long type. first remove the injector next to the stuck plug, then with a mole grip grab the heater plug electrode & twist it, this breaks the electrode off about 70mm inside the plug, now tap the plug where you've broken the electrode off with a 6mm taper tap, insert a 6mm bolt, over the bolt place a heavy piece of metal, put on a nut & washer & you have a extractor, just tighten the nut & the plug follows, mind you it is tight, usually comes out in bangs. It works done it myself.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - vmturbo

Very sorry to read of your problems but if you keep it long enough you migh even hit the Polyoxymethylene fuel gauge sender problem (the tank unit diesel pipe stub cracks and air gets in the diesel) On a 2.2Dt the starter motor may burn out with the difficult starting (guess how I know) but on a DCi the ultra high pressure pump might also die-off,

As to anything stuck in aluminium a good tip is to soak the part in genuine turpentine. On awkward parts a turpsey rag can be put round like a wick Turpentine worked for me on Rover twin-cam spark plugs which going by the feel were 100% certain to strip their threads if I tried to remove them. Not wanting the bother of Helicoils I ran about a tablespoonful of turpentine down each plug tunnel then had a cup of tea. After the tea break the plugs unscrewed as if they were in ball-threads! No binding or galling at all! The tip was given to me about fifty years ago by my metalwork teacher at school but its still good today. Genuine turpentine should be used as its definitely more effective than the substitute, it also smells nicer.

Good luck with the Escrap as I know the sickening feeling but my non-runner only owes me about a grand. Its still a quite expensive lemon or scrap-car however which died-off only about a month after it was purchased. Purchase £620, tow-bar £80, tailgate gas struts £23, £723 so far. New Monroe shock absorbers to try to cure the horrible choppy ride £199 for four. Total now about £922. Now add replacement starter and alternator from eBay (hopefully the Ring Gear will still be OK) and the Grand Total is about a £1000. The battery needs replacing as well as it has taken an awful beating. Thankfully I can do most jobs myself.

Apart from the non-running, the sump plug which is in a stupid place, leaks like the Torrey Canyon. Possibly it has been knocked by going over rough ground. The plug had been wrapped in plumbers PTFE tape so there must have been something wrong with it before. Of course these days an oil leak means no MOT. Really the OEM sump plug hole needs plating over and a new sump plug fitting at the rear of the sump. I would have thought that by now all the patents on this idea would have expired yet Renault persist in fitting the plug where it can get knocked.

I'm sorry to say that the Escrap is without a doubt the WORST CAR THAT I HAVE EVER OWNED and I'm an OAP!

Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - injection doc
Escrap02 what fuel do you buy & where? DP mentions his boss had a 2.2dci Laguna & never had a problem so is there a possible link with fuel purchase. I wonder where DP's boss fills his car up & what he runs it on.
I do belive that whilst a design fault I think type of fuel could be relavant.
15 years ago I was involved indiscovering a fuel related problem with injectors that dominated a particular area of the country & this was narrowed down to a fuel share system & a particlar refinery & the fuel share system had a reaction when the addatives for the particular brand where added to a different base fuel.
Good luck with the passat.
I wonder if anyone has experienc yet of the new 2.0dci in the new espace because as you say you cant beat it for praticallity. I would like one to tow my van but not the unreliability.
Doc
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Also affects Mark IV - javierrio
Sad but true. I have a Mark IV Grand Espace 2.2 dCI. I came across this forum because I was looking for help on my situation. I see I'm not the only one. To think that we are paying Renault to conduct their engine testing, gets my blood boiling...

Mine has just done 35k miles! its an 03, first of the new shape, if this helps.

Over the past year I have it replaced:
- 1 injector
- Turbo
- Drive shaft
- 4 injectors (yes, again)
- Renault garage insisted I needed to replace the glow plugs, I
refused as I couldn't see the logic.
- re-seated all injectors and replaced 1 (yes, again)
After all that, I still get the same performance and the light and messge in the dashboard

My Espace's symptoms are more or less the same, cruising at constant speed it gets to a point where there is no power, lifting my foot from the accelerator and pressing back again does the job for about 30 seconds, that is if there are no hills to climb. This is so annoying I
have sworn to replace the car so many times... but I agree with many of you; what am I going to get for it? peanuts. What sort of car can I buy with the same practicality? Forget about the new Grand Voyager, it's NCAP rating is appalling. Galaxy? Even in that case these will cost me a lot of money especially when the rest of the car is in perfect nick.

So there I was hoping for an answer when I got to this forum. At least I have to try the EGR valve option. After reading this forum carefully I believe this is what happens to cause the failure (bear in mind I'm not mechanic):

The EGR valve starts to misbehave and somehow the fumes that get into the chamber damage the injectors which in turn cause the loss of power, etc. I got to this conclusion after replacing so many injectors... and not replacing/fixing an EGR valve. The last time I
got the injector out because the Renault garage at {deleted, regardless of their current status - it's still potentially naming/shaiming} now under liquidation (I wonder why) failed in fixing the issue and the injectors (all of them) started to leak combustion gases through their seals. This created a crust of carbon that made difficult to fix
this and one of them got broken trying to release it in order to re-seat it (this was done by another non-Renault garage, I wouldn't bring my car to this garage again after this... now more the case since they no longer operate)

I wonder, and I leave this open for the more mechanically oriented folk out there, if those combustion gases are damaging the injectors and whether the EGR valve should be disconnected. Perhaps once the EGR valve goes, this affects the injectors and replacing the valve alone wont get rid of the damage any longer... I don't know, I'm just thinking aloud to perhaps trigger some response from you guys.

I would spend a lot of money, and I mean a lot, if a Toyota or Honda engine could be fitted into my Espace, that would make my day/year. Don't you agree?

Cheers.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 27/06/2008 at 02:06

Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - lbhgraham
Hello xileno
I noticed that you had four new injectors done recently... has it solved the problem ? ie limp mode and cut out ?

I'm talking to Renault UK at the moment to see whether they have a definate solution... keep you posted with the dialouge.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
I am sorry I don't own one of these cars. I have, however, heard of 700 euros being about right for this job when I'm in France.

I would not use a Renault main dealer for this. Once you can source the injectors, a good independent can do the work.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - escrap02
Does anyone know who actually makes the 2.2 DCi used in the Espace. Is it Mitsibushi? Is it Renault? and what other cars have it in?
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
It is a Renault engine. As far as I know only Renaults have this engine. It is not the same engine as the Nissan 2.2dCi despite what you might read. There are similarities but not many.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - batsam
my grand espace dci 02, went on "limp mode" while on the motorway, i took it to my local garage, got the EGR and flow meter replaced cost £400, car still wont drive over 30 mph, after reading this here and not founding any solutions, i explored the french forums, and it appears that they have been getting the cost of the repairs (EGR, injectors, fuel pumps) repaid in full by Renault france, here is a Document that they circulated to garages in 2004,
lecapitainechoc.free.fr/renault_espace_OTS4557A_10...f
It a document that clearly shows that they where aware of the problem, it now appears, that they release a new version of the document in 2007 that they will only cover the cost of repairs on cars less than 5 years, and less than 110000 km,
I m going to try and get some legal advice on this.
Renault Espace Diesel Problem Vol2 - Steadywego
Had same problem while driving in France this year, breakdown company took my car to nearest Renault dealer who replaced a capacitator, car has been fine since.(Cost was eqivilant of £200, but very sure it would of been a lot more in this country)
Diesel Problem Vol2 - injection doc
escrap02 have you seen this, may not be related, www.renaultbiler.no/vedlegg/forum/1038.pdf
Hope that may help
Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
One would hope that the dealers might know of this. The depressing thing is that this thread is now three year's old, yet there appears to be no definite cure for these problems. I wonder what changes, if any, have been made to the 2.2dCi since the engine is still available.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - injection doc
escrap02 have you spoken to this guy, his (snake oil has very good results I have used it in many a troublesome vehicle with excellent results from time to time) www.dieselbob.co.uk/fueladditives.shtml worth a read & contact. His advice is very good
Rgds Doc
Diesel Problem Vol2 - escrap02
Thanks for all your advice and I hope that other Espace owners with similair problems will benefit from reading the technical notes.

However I have sold mine (if it lasts till the end of next week when I trade it in) and I am not trying to cure its faults any longer.

I am glad that this engine is just in the Espace, that means that I will not bump into it again.

Having said all that, the Espace is a brilliant vehicle for moving a large family around, provided someone else picks up the cost of fixing the engine and other problems when it goes wrong. In some ways I will miss it next week.

Thanks again
Diesel Problem Vol2 - harry66
If you look at the Vol1 thread, you'll see this problem affects laguna's and vel satis's with the same engine. Other brands are affected too.

Actually, I think its a combination of EGR valves with early common rail diesels (pre 2003,3004) later models apparently use more reliable siemens EGR valves. better still is using catalysers to destroy the NOx gases, which avoids recirculating crap into the engine.

My wife found this article from a french car mag Auto-Moto (sept 05), for those of you who speak french:

www.econologie.com/file/transports/scandale_vanne_...f

"EGR Valve Scandal" pretty much says it all. If enough people are interested, I could translate it for non francophones.

I'm trading in my 2002/51 mkIII espace 2.2 dCi, but not for another renault.

My story is pretty much the same old. On my 4th EGR valve, 1 injector replaced, 4 glow plugs replaced, and the thing will cut out up to 6 times on my way to work if I don't drive like its a milkfloat.
Where we bought it ceased to care once the warranty ran out, claiming they didn't have the expertise to fix it (although they were happy to hack around until then).

Not even sure if it's worth fixing first. We have 2 renaults, my in-laws have 2 renaults. We used to really like them, but I can't recommend them anymore. Renault UK gave me sympathy and concern but little else.

Diesel Problem Vol2 - fenwayfrank
Glad to see that I'm not alone in suffering the curse of the 2.2DCI.

My Renault Grand Espace (2001 Y Reg, 74,000 miles) first conked out after a month from new - dealer replaced the butterfly air valve when it wouldn't start one morning.

Over the year I've experienced the intermittent power loss and 'limp mode', though it had always cleared itself before becoming that much of a problem. Potentially dangerous, yes, especially when going uphill in Wales, but then always came back to normal.

Last April was the first time that we got the bellowing black smoke and real loss of power - no more than 30mph for about an hour. But it cleared itself and we shrugged it off again.

BUT

A couple weeks ago driving down a dual carriageway at 75mpg the electrical indicator warning light came on and the car simply cut out. I had about 20 seconds to get to the side of the road. Let it rest for a couple minutes, started it and got compression. So I drove on an lasted maybe a mile before it cut out again.

The dealer pink fluffy diced about for a couple days saying that they had to 'catch the fault when it happened'. I took the car back and 15 miles later it cut out again - this time with my three young sons in it on a busy road.

Back to the dealer and they identified a fault in injector #1 - total cost for both visits £650.

Speaking with the service manager, I'm told that the EGR valve was under an OTS to replace when the vehicles came in to service up to a couple year ago. We had ours serviced privately, so was unaware.

But, I was told that the failure of the injector, which caused the engine cut out, and the loss of power (EGR) were unrelated!

I find this difficult to believe, given all the comments on this subject. I'm told that injectors sometimes do wear out and got a shrug.

I maintain that the Espace is now similar to a ticking timebomb and have put the ball into Renault's court by asking for them to acknowledge the problem.

Long shot I know, but let's see what they come back with. In the meantime, if anybody can direct to firm evidence that this is a known engine problem do let me know.

Diesel Problem Vol2 - Screwloose
Frank

Only some comments;

An air valve fault caused a non-start... Really? Seen a lot of dozer valves fail [mainly on HDi's] but never a non-start one.

The black smoke incident is classic stuck EGR. You were lucky to escape turbo meltdown and total engine destruction.

Internal injector failure itself doesn't cause intermittent cutting-out; that's injector plug contact failure. [Assuming that injector codes are stored.] I've had to solder flyleads on to some 2.2 injectors to stop that one. [£650!! - I must charge more...]

Ticking timebomb - oh yes! Get Renault to acknowledge that they have a problem - good luck!
Diesel Problem Vol2 - fenwayfrank
Renault have denied that there is an underlying problem and have challenged me to find the evidence to back up the claim.

So the hunt is on.

In the meantime I think that it would be worthwhile to rattle their cage a bit. I'm a marketing guy, so will be devising a website and visual campaign (time depending) which all the fobbed-off users of this site can help to spread the word. Then maybe we'll get somewhere.

I've been advised that a) Renault will never admit that there is a problem b) the dealer will always remain loyal to the brand and c) there's little that one person can do. Which I think stinks.

Diesel Problem Vol2 - Xileno {P}
There is already a long thread on Parkers.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - dickiefixit
Dear All

Just wanted to give feedback to the fix suggested by a previous contributor to this forum.

I have a 02 registered 2.2DCi The Race which also suffered from this "lack of power" problem - in our case it was irregular power delivered at medium throttle, but we also experienced complete shut-down to the "limp home" mode a few times, and the "clouds of black smoke" when you accel hard (which would then seem to clear the prob for a while).

I followed the advice below and found that our EGR valve was completely caked in carbon deposits. After thorough careful cleaning of the valve and seating and reassembly, the power delivery is smooth again.

I am very grateful as it has restored my confidence in the car, which is absolutely ideal for our active family life. There doesn't seem to be anything else on the market to touch it's flexibility, so I'm just about willing to put up with the unreliability (even had an airbag go off on it's own - clean undies time!)

... from previous contributor

1. Remove the air cleaner box by undoing the single Jubilee clip on the right hand side and gently lifting it out of its mounting rubbers - these tend to dislodge so make sure you don't lose any into the engine bay.

2. Remove the 4 x 13mm bolts securing the EGR feed pipe (the light 25mm or so diameter pipe running from high right down to the front of the EGR (which is the lump on the front of the block).

3. Disconnect the connector plug from the EGR, and move it out of the way.

4. Remove the 3 x 10mm bolts securing the EGR actuator from the main body. One of these is out of sight underneath the valve but it is fairly simple to get out.

5. Gently twist the actuator until it can be slid out of the main body to the right.

6. Clean the whole of the actuator and valve chamber using brake cleaner (about £2.99 a can) and ensure that the spindle in the centre of the valve moves in and out freely. Pay particular attention to the insode of the barrel and the two valve seats which become apparent when the valve is moved.

6. Replace in reverse order.




Diesel Problem Vol2 - nick
I think if I had a car where an airbag went off on its own the car would be sold pdq and not replaced with one from the same manufacturer. It doesn't bear thinking about the consquences if that had happened to the driver's airbag while in lane 3 at 70mph. Completely unacceptable reliability IMHO.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - dickiefixit
Yeah, makes you realise, in almost any car, you are surrounded by highly explosive charges which can be detonated by computer control, and that any number of faults in the system can cause a bag to trigger accidently. Not sure if I feel safer with or without airbags really.

When one of these goes off, you go completely deaf for about 2 seconds because it is so loud, then the car fills with smoke from the exploding cartridge. Luckily we were stationary when this happened. We had warning about it though - the dashboard warning light came on very occasionally. Took it to Renault, they said the cars computer says there is a wiring fault under the passenger seat - I paid £80 to have them cut off a plug and re-wire it. Fault came back a few weeks later. I don't have time or patience to keep taking the car to the garage so I ignored it. Look on the bright side, it's one less thing that can go wrong now!
Diesel Problem Vol2 - lbhgraham
Yes, count me in !


Continuing on from my last post...

I had the leaky injector replaced at a cost of £385.00 by an independant, because the Renault dealership and Renault UK would not guarantee doing this work would fix the problem of complete system failure (stalling, limp mode ), I still have the same problem!!!, Contact with Renault technical and an independant renault specialist ...reveals no solution to this common problem, they suggest a ' trial and error ' type fix , in other words keep throwing money at it , until you stumble on a solution.

This is outrageous ! I am now left with a pile of scrap ! with no help from renault.

There is a glimmer of hope with the posting of this link.... www.renaultbiler.no/vedlegg/forum/1038.pdf

As the injector removed from my vehicle matches the part numbers of seemingly affected injectors, there obviously is a problem.

Graham.



Diesel Problem Vol2 - lbhgraham
Hi Fenway Frank, post above was in reply to your last message.

Maybe some evidence?

Graham.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - boxsterboy
If it's any consolation, I had EGR failure in a 2002 Merc C270 CDI. Just clouds of black smoke, mind, no power loss or limp mode, etc.

To those who are fed up with Espaces, I can recommend the Citroen C8. I know they are not as big as a Grand Espace, but our 2.0 HDI auto is now 4 years old and has had no mechanical problems at all from new. A few minor electrical glitches, yes, but then these are to be expected with modern electrically-stuffed cars, aren't they?
Diesel Problem Vol2 - SS069
Hi,

I've been experiencing the same problems of cutting out under load with my Espace 2.2 DCi, upon furthe investigation I foind that injector No 4 is leaking, spitting out diesel & air.

I have found out that I can have the injector reconditioned or buy a replacement off EBAY for £90.

How do you remove the injector ? - I have rmoved the beedback pipe & the electrical connection to see if I could determine the size of hole sised socket is required.

Looking at the injectors on EBAY, they must be held in place by a clamp of some sort & if this is the case, my problem may be caused by a knackered seal.

I don't want to start to try forcing out the injectore befor I have some info on what I need to do to remove the injector first.

Any assistance is very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Sean
Diesel Problem Vol2 - manicmike
Hi Screwloose,
In response to your post.
I have spent several happy hours(!) reading through this thread.
I have a 2000 2.2 dci Espace which had been suffering intermittent 50% loss of power for 6 months until my new local Renault dealer discovered a damaged (chafed) engine wiring loom. Since replacement (~£400)(plus a third clean of the EGR valve for good measure) the symptom has disappeared. However, after a further 100-200 miles I now have a new problem - the dreaded high speed cut out. Just as I put my foot down for more power to go uphill say at 70mph it cuts dead with warning beep and light, switching the ignition off and on again clears the problem though it may do it again a mile or two later. Then after say 10 mins driving I can floor the throttle at 70mph plus and it runs perfectly. The renault dealer can't find a problem and says there's no tell tale code.
My question is, can you confirm, does this problem sound like injector contacts as you appear to suggest? If so could you give a little more info on how to fix it? Could it be that some of these people who are having injectors swapped really only need improved electrical connections to them? or have I misunderstood your post?
Any light you or anyone else can throw on this would be gratefully received, I don't want to have change this car as we love it to bits in spite of the hideous service costs but there are limits!!!
Regards,
Mike
Diesel Problem Vol2 - javierrio
Harry, I can't access it now. Would you be able to make it available or even better, translate? Cheers.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - Irish_Dude
Hi All,

Took a test drive in a 2004 Espace 2.2dci yesterday, and guess what happened half way down the road.

Actually I didn't know anything about this fault until I read all the postings, so I haven't bought the car yet, only put a deposit. The car has a full main dealer service history and is in superb condition, 144,000miles on the clock. The dealer says the EGR vavle needs to be replaced.

A couple of questions for those in the know:

1) Should I walk away from this car
2) I still want an espace, there's a petrol auto (2.0t) available also with 52,000 on the clock....is that a better buy or are Espace's just bad news all over?
3) Whats the fuel economy like on the petrol auto

Thanks for any help....


Diesel Problem Vol2 - DP
1) Should I walk away from this car


I think the golden rule is to walk away from *any* common rail diesel that isn't running perfectly, however trivial the seller claims the fault to be.
At the very least you want an iron clad warranty!

Cheers
DP
Diesel Problem Vol2 - Irish_Dude
Thanks DP....any thoughts on my other questions re: Petrol turbo version and Espace's in general.

Cheers...

Edited by Irish_Dude on 27/06/2008 at 10:39

Diesel Problem Vol2 - oh2bhappy
In November 06 I bought a Race 2.2dci, privately. I'm a single mum to four children, so it's the ideal car for us.

I did take the car to be checked over by a mechanic, and all was well. Serviced and MOTd in the January. Engine blew up in the April 07. This was replaced by a reconditioned engine by an engine specialists garage, recommended by a local garage. This cost £4500.

The car was ok after that, and I had a brilliant summer in it, and covered a few thousand miles in it. I replaced the alternator in the November (£800) and with the service and MOT in January 08, the Rocker Cover was replaced (£360)

All was well until the end of June when the engine lost power and almost immediately stopped. This was in the outside lane of a dual-carraigeway. Once I calmed down, the car did re-start, and drove to a Renault garage which was close by (but 40 miles away from home! Nearest dealer to me). They replaced the camshaft sensor, but charged £148 as they included a £70 breakdown charge to look at it.

A week later, the same thing happened again. This time though the car would only drive for a yards before cutting out again. This time the AA came and towed it back to the Renault garage. This was a Friday afternoon, so they didn't look at the car until Monday.

The Service Manager was trying to say the breakdown was different, as the fault showed up as 'fuel deprivation'. Eventually agreed to not charge another £70 breakdown charge. This time they replaced the fuel filter. The road tested it and it conked out again. No fault showed up on the computer. After 9 hours labour, they decided it must be an injector. They wanted me to buy an injector at a cost of £330 - so they could then use it to test the others!!!!! I refused. They then wanted me to agree to them sending the injectors off for testing - which I said yes to. £74 +VAT. However, three days later (clearly, no hurry, even though I have a child with special needs and transport is essential) they phoned to say that the pipes had ceased and it would cost £64 +VAT to replace these - as they would break when removing them to send the injectors off.

At this point, the anticipated bill to do this was £680+VAT. I asked if this would mean the car would be repaired, but he couldn't be sure, saying that if this wasn't the problem, then I'd need to replace the fuel pump at £1000 + four hours labour +VAT.

Basically, he was telling me the bill could be as much as £4500. I only have £500 left after the previous repairs. As he couldn't assure me that the car would be fixed I refused to authorise more work.

I also suggested that the technicians go on a mechanics course, so that they can actually sort out the engine rather than reading computer screens.

Meanwhile, I emailed him Volume 1 of this thread.

A friend bravely drove the car back home. He's going to attempt to have a go at the EGR valve, hoping that will help matters. I have no means of buying another vehicle, and my best bet is to get this running.

Is there anyway that a mass complaint can be put to Renault?

Does this sound similar to the other problems on here?

I love the car. It's ideal for us, but it has bled me dry. I really don't have any money to throw at it now.

I would really appreciate any comments, as all I can think of is scrapping it - and it's beautiful, too good for that really.

Also, I know someone mentioned putting a different make engine into the car. Is this possible??

Thank you in advance for any comments, and sorry I go on a bit - I'm not at all technical when it comes to engines.

Diesel Problem Vol2 - norkmania
Hi,
3.0 Litre Diesel Grand Espace, nasty loss of power over 2000 revs - no warning lights or computer notification.
Have looked at 4 years of this thread and notice that most problems are on the 2.2 dci. well its the same for the 3 litre jobby too.
My dealer kept the car for a couple of days, reported no fault found. They had given it to one of the front of house guys to spot the problem.
I pointed out that him spotting the problem was no better than me spotting it. Didn't rub.
Any way, I took it back to the dealer after a few more weeks enduring this appaling problem and a techie noticed a fray in a 3 inch pipe between the turbo air inlet - a great big plastic tuby /manifold right in front of you as you stare into the engine space - and a black box attached to the front of the engine compartment - just in front of your trousers as you stand there. £79 plus VAT for this discovery, plus £20 for the little pipe.
It didn't cure the problem. I got no more than 100 metres from the garage, up a slight incline and the 180 HP power plant gave up the ghost.
Managed to drag a techie out of the workshop (imagine that! and on a Saturday too!) to come and experience the problem. He witnessed it, tried it himself and agreed that it was not a working car. Since the computer diagnosis was still drawing a blank, he reckoned it was another bit of computery associated with the accelerator pedal. He has reported it to Renault and will follow up on Monday. No talk of EGRs, injectors etc. I will keep you posted.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - oh2bhappy
My friend is using my car at the mo, and has found that the engine does cut out going up an incline.

I hope you find a solution - not just for selfish reasons!
SNIPQUOTE!

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 01/09/2008 at 20:38

Diesel Problem Vol2 - h man
hi oh2bhappy

i have just started having the same problem with my espace and it is not funny as it happened to us several times on the auto route , but i might have a ray of hope for you.
i spoke to a friend who has been with renault for 35 years and he has suggested i replace the tdc sensor and also a section of the wiring from the sensor which there is a part no. for.
so bare with me as i will be replacing mine , and will let you know the results.

regards
h man

Diesel Problem Vol2 - oh2bhappy
Thank you h man

The tdc sensor was something that Renault did replace, but the car broke down again, same fault, a week later.

As far as I'm aware, the wiring wasn't replaced.

Thank you again.

SNIPQUOTE again. Next time I will delete the whole post - see
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=42612 for clarification

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 01/09/2008 at 20:39

Diesel Problem Vol2 - h man
hi oh2bhappy

it would be worth asking your renault dealer if there is a section of loom from the tdc sensor on the parts fiche , because this could be the thing at fault, the wiring runs from the gearbox to the bulkhead of the car so the wiring is moving with the engine which inturn is starting to cause a break in the wiring, and you end up with an intermitant fault.
i dont think the piece o loom is expensive , but from the information i was given this is well worth a try.
regards
h man
Diesel Problem Vol2 - crog
Does anyone know if the new 2.0 DCi engine is having any of these problems? I too have a love/hate relationship with my Grand 2.2DCi. Same problems although I think I've been relatively lucky. Only one EGR valve at 54000 miles which cured the problem. I just booked the car in to have its second (now 75000 miles). In my case the symptom is almost stalling when moving off from standstill, plus the occasional yellow light accompanied by a Fuel Injection System faulty warning (exactly the same symptoms as before) both of which go away after a short time.

But it's definitely time to think about changing. Trouble is there's not much that does the job. All the other MPVs are too small for my needs (5 seats plus lots of camera equipment) so I'm heading towards VW Transporter land or another Espace. I know the VW won't be as nice to drive as the Espace and from what I read the T5 is nowhere near as reliable as they used to be so an Espace with a better engine might be the right answer... anyone?
Diesel Problem Vol2 - Collos25
What about a Kia
Diesel Problem Vol2 - h man
hi
my espace 2.2 cdi 2001 with the g9t motor cut out when on auto routes.
i have just replaced the tdc sensor and also about 7 inches of loom from the sensor and the motor seems alot smoother and pulls better and hasnt cut out yet!!!
i have the renault part no. for both items;

sensor 7701477748

loom 8200300322

it seems odd that the do a section of wiring, and possible they have had trouble in the past.

Diesel Problem Vol2 - Collos25
The wiring loom was I believe a recall.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - h man
i had my car checked for recalls and it was up to date, so the loom was not a recall for my model.
my friend who works at a renault agency told me to try the loom and the tdc sensor as they had had epaces cutting out and they were replacing both of these items.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - crog
My 2.2DCi Espace (75000m) has just been cured of the injection system faulty/limp home mode/power loss issue after a visit to the garage. Computer diagnosis showed two errors, one EGR valve, one Air Flow Meter. EGR valve cleaned and Air Flow Meter replaced and the car, so far (touches wood quickly) is running very well. A previous problem at 53000m was cured by a replacement EGR valve. My Warranty Direct policy paid a big chunk of the Air Flow Meter replacement (£137 parts, £29 labour) which was nice. Cleaning the EGR cost me £67.50.

It seems to me that it might be sensible to request the EGR valve is cleaned out at every service, or at least at every second one.

What's with the pop-ups on this site! My blocker is pinging every few seconds It's like a firework display.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - ifithelps
....What's with the pop-ups on this site!...

Assume you're using Explorer, try Safari or Firefox.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - sebringnut
I`ve had 2 Espaces with the 2.2 DCI engine & experienced both cars going into "limp mode".

My local Renault garage said it was the exhaust emission valve & told me never to use supermarket diesel. I started using only Total Excellium and it was better (also more power & MPG just like it says on the tin) - but eventually the problem came back with my latest car - a Grand Espace.
Then the garage said it was something shorting out between the injection system and the block & tried to insulate the cables.
After it went into limp mode about 10 times in an hour (switching off & restarting cures it for a while) - I`d had enough & sold it.
Its a wonderfully practical car but comes out way down the list on the JD Power survey each year.

I now have a Volvo XC90
Diesel Problem Vol2 - Zothra
Erk! I have the same problem with my 2001 Grand Espace cutting out randomly. We drove from Essex to Newbury and the car cut out 9 times while driving steady at 70 mph. Pretty scary, but we got very good at putting it in neutral and turning the engine off then on while moving. Only vaguely safe when going in a straight line, I don't advise while cornering...

The off/on trick worked every time. There was no loss of power or smoke, the car just shut down the engine.

I am going to talk to the independent garage and have them look at and try a few things before going for the new injector they tell me I 'might' need. @£366 for this 'test' I'd rather try a few cheaper things first based on this forum feedback. If we eventually find the true fix for this (in our case at least) I'll post details.
Diesel Problem Vol2 - h man
have fitted tdc sensor and section of loom . ran great for the first 3 weeks! and has cut out twice since , it has to be electrical as there is no warning ( smoke , running limp etc ) its just like switching the ignition off.
SQ

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/10/2008 at 18:58

Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - espace problem
hi have a 2.2dci espace with the cutting out problem 95000mls i fix cars my self so investigated this little problem i cleaned my egr valve as it was blocked changed all filters but still cut out so when the problem ocours usualy on idle or comoing to a stop or coming down gears i found that the wiring must be at fault so had a chat with a good mate about it so phoned renault read the fault to them i must say this it is a common fault with all espaces and some 2.2dci motors here goes hope this helps eveyone when the car cuts out it sometimes starts and others it will not THE ANSWER at the high pressure air conditioning pipe on the compresser the thick black pipe if you look down at the rear of the atlrternator you will see many black insulted cable protectors follow the high pressure pipe down you will see the the protector for the injector power supply is chaffing against the high pressure aluminium pipe this in turn chaffed the protective shield to the wiring this shorts out the injectors or injector giving the ecu a fault code that it has a injector fault what to do is remove the steel bracket from the powersteering pump to the throttle body hives room to get hand down then remove the small bracket supporting the high pressure pipe at this stage you can pull the harness away from the pipe you may notice that the protective shield around the wiring has rubed through remowe this turn the protective shield around and reroute the wiring away from the pipe and any other metal parts . I HAVE DONE THIS TO MY OWN ESPACE AND IT WORKS PERFECT NO MORE CUTTING OUT it seems that the aluminium pipe shorts out the electric supplyto the injectors ihope this helps as renault know about this but not all dealers

Edited by espace problem on 27/10/2008 at 20:08

Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - crog
Great post "Espace Problem". Thanks for sharing your knowledge. This could well be the cure for those who've tried everything else. If Renault really do know about this issue it's pretty disgraceful that they haven't let their dealers know that there might be a very simple and cost-effective fix. I'd be well annoyed if I'd had expensive injector replacements done unnecessarily.
Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - Doc lowe
Have had problem similar to others over the years loss of power which has always cleared its self after a day or 2.
Have also had problems starting but a clean of the crank sensor has sorted this.

2.2DCI Race 50k

But a few weeks ago car cut out when driving with the red stop light.
Car would not restart checked the sensor which i also replaced with new one today.
Have replaced the relay for the glow plug supply (RAC recommendation)
At initial breakdown RAC laptop plugged into the diagnostic port reported no faults.
Only way to get home was to start the car with easy start.
Tried to use the car again starting with easy start but cut out on a roundabout after about 5-10 mins driving would only start with easy start to get me back home.
Have since cleaned the Egr valve.
I have been looking for wiring faults but cannot find any as yet is it possible to be emailed a picture with arrow pointing at the most likely place that the fault is not quite pin pointed with the description from escrap02 although I am confident this is the last resort before a expensive renault garage has a look. Please can any one help and email me at easybayuk@mac.com

Thank you
Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - Screwloose
Doc Iowe

That sounds very like low fuel pressure in the rail; get an injector leak-off test done and the pump output pressure checked.

There should be codes stored.
Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - Doc lowe
Thanks for your fast response will look into this will have a chat to my local garage to see if they have tools for the job.

Forgot to mention as well last night after fitting new crank sensor, when i tried to start the car the abs light was flickering then the stop light came on.

After this attempt i switch the ing on and wait for ok which comes on after a few seconds but then without cranking over the stop light comes on after a few seconds, could this be indicating another problem?
Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - Screwloose

Check the brake fluid level and the wiring to it's sensor.
Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - Doc lowe
Hi

Thank you for your guidance have carried out a leak-off test and by turning engine over not starting, only got fuel from number 4 into the container and about 2" of the tubing to the other inj had fuel in so i feel number four is duff. Is it worth repeating the test starting the car with easy start to be sure of the results?


Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - Doc lowe
Hi Screwloose

Did make an inj leak of test kit with some bottles and a bit of tubing and the connectors of the net, from united diesel. Bingo number 4 inj faulty.
Have now had this replaced and fires up instantly no more easy start.
Many thanks indeed for your guidance :-)
Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - cheekymonkey2008
hi
my husband has just bought a renault espace 2.2dci 2002, we were already aware that it had a few problems. my husband is a mechanic so he thought he could fix it! at first we thought it was the injectors, so i googled to find cheap injectors and stumbled across this sight, now i am horrified, as the espace has similar syptoms!! it cuts out when accelerating or when u accelerate hard, the dash goes blank, after a few mins it will start again and the dash comes back on a few mins later, its very odd and my hubby doesnt think it the injectors causing this problem!! we really want to solve these problems because its a lovely car, but im not goin to drive it like that because when it cuts out as some other people have said its very hard to steer or brake, and im terrifed id crash, and having very young children, thats not a good idea!!!

if anyone has any ideas as to how to solve this problem it would be very much apriciated, there are many things we could try,its just the cost we are concirned about!!!!
Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - wurzel.e.k
This is the ANSWER, I've a 2002 2.2 dci with 72k on the clock, had it a year now, was fine until 3 weeks ago, got the dreaded cut out when driving, must confess that I had heard about this before I bought the car & thought with 48 years experience as an engineer, it shouldn't be a problem to me, big joke, tried the diagnostics with a local garage, comes up injectors, OK so I pull the injectors out & have them checked, all OK,diagnostics also says fuel rail, not having that, it's just a pipe, tried a governor valve, not that,either. I've got it down to a fine art with the cutting out on the move,clutch down, ignition off, ignition on, clutch up & away we go, driving around waiting an idea to hit me, meanwhile I'm reading this column & saw this, He's right, the wiring loom chaffs between the pipe & engine bolts, there's some cloth jointing tape put there by Renault, which had been worn away, I couldn't see any thing obvious like bare wires, anyway, I fitted some conduit over that section & lo & behold, IT'S CURED. PRAISE BE TO THIS MAN.
Diesel Problem Vol2 electrical problem sorted - vmturbo

Well done!

Years ago a friend with a black Ford Fiesta knocked on my door. His car would not cross the nearby hump-backed bridge but it would run OK in reverse. The fault seemed like a faulty capacitor on the points or possibly fuel starvation so a lawn mower tank was fitted to a roof-rack bar but it wasn't that. Fat sparks were also present so it couldn't be that? Of course with the car being black and with it being pitch dark with no moon or stars it was hard to see anything with a feeble torch (no LED torches in those days!) This was so vexing that we had to go for a pint and after that I towed the car to his home.

The next day in daylight all became clear. There was a wire that ran from the ignition coil ballast resistor to the starter motor terminal. The wire had fallen off the motor and was resting on the car bodywork. Curiously the wire had rubbed through the paint at the point where the engine had been pulling hard but when running in reverse the wire rested on good paint! For a car to be able to run backwards OK but to not be able to go forwards uphill was a most unusual fault. GRRRRR!

Diesel Problem Vol2 - Zothra
Right, I think the garage fixed mine. As promised I said I'd report back if it seemed to fix the issue. With mine, they replaced a single injector that was reporting pressure faults at the time it stopped. They had to take it for a drive while hooked up to their monitors as it did not dump a code into the computer, so they had to 'see' it happen live to capture the status of all the engine components at time of failure. After about an hour of driving up and down (of course, I got charged...) it finally cut out on them and gave them a fright while going round a corner up a hill! Glad someone else (esp from the garage) finally got to appreciate just how scary this can be.

I do hope that it was the injector, and it will not start breaking down again in a few weeks. If it does, I'l let you know. One of the first things I'll try if it does is the loom check as per the 'espace problem' post.
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - clogs
Help please. I am lost with the original discussion thread (volume 1) which turned into this volume-2, that seems to gone off my 'limp mode' problem (discussed in volume-1).

So we have a 2004 2.2 DCI Espace, (60,000 Miles), driving around town no problem what so ever, starts fine, whatever the weather. When driving on motorways, 70mph combined with accelerating up a hill and/or coming out of a service station, accelerating hard (but not excessive) getting to 55+mph the little orange (wave sign) warning light comes on, following by a total lack of acceleration. So you the car keeps moving forward for as long as it takes to slow naturally, when you try to change down the gears and rev.up again, you have no power, does seem to get above 2500rpm etc.. So if we pull over (and forced to sit on the hard shoulder), turn it off, and re-start often the light/problem goes away.

When on holiday in France we had this motorway induced limp-mode problem so many times on the journey down, we went to a friendly Renault garage, hoked to their computer, new EGR value fitted, told (in french of course) it's now fixed, drove 1/2 mile down the road.......warning light again (but no cut out/limp mode). So straight back to same garage, they spent 4 hours looking, couldn't find a problem (but didn't charge me i might add, clearly French Renault garages are friendly!!). They said to see what happens. We then drove, very nervously 400 miles motorway & hills back from France, no problem, then 'limp mode' (whilst acelerating having been to service station on motorway). So again onto hard shoulder, turn off/on, another 400 miles to home with no problems.

Since then, post new EGR, driving around town is no problem for 2000+ miles, makes you very happy with the car. That said, I simply do not trust the car to not do it again when driving on the motorway for an extended period.

Help, what is the magic answer ? Which answer from all these threads ?

(By the way I also contacted Renault, via their UK web site for complaint, got an 'incident number', been in dialogue with them, directed them to these Honest John threads. They admit did seem a common problem, but did not tell me the answer......i expect they will next tell me to go to my local Renault Garage, charge me a fortune and not fix it).

So from Volume-2 thread, what's the answer to this limp-mode problem please ? Many many thanks, I am half considering selling the car, leaving Renault altogether to going for a Petrol (how desperate am i ?)

(oh and had new injector about 3000 miles before i had this new EGR fitted in France).
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Alby Back
Clogs - My deepest sympathy. As an ex-owner of one of these I really can't stress enough how much I urge you to sell it. I suffered mine for two long years and they never did manage to completely cure it. Everything you describe sounds familiar. Mine broke down or went "limp" so many times I eventually lost count. It was quite the worst car I have ever had, which is a shame because when it did go it was very useful. Do yourself a favour, get rid of it.
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Screwloose
clogs

Any hard detail on what codes were found and what was done to action them?

Unfortuately, HB is right. The unreliability of Renaults is systemic. Virtually every one of their 1,000s of components is only "just" functioning - in the good old BL way - and no amount of repair can fix something that was born dying.

This leads to demotivated service staff who, however good, eventually end up just turning up for the money and doing just enough to cover their back-sides.

Edited by Screwloose on 27/11/2008 at 20:37

Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Robbie42
Have had a 2.2 dci for 7 years and probably spent the original cost of the car. However, fell in love on first drive and can't get rid. In last 12 months had rear hatch lock replaced, new clutch master cylinder and just recently power asisted steering went.
Last night new mystery light not mentioed in handbook. A red light in the warning section combined with 5-6 beeps. Due to the warning symbols being scrambled and unreadable after a new wiring loom many years ago i can't read what the problem is. Checked all fluids and everything appears Ok. Any clues?
I should really just get rid but no one wants them and i want to try and recoup some of the costs incuured with some troble free driving. Am i mad?
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - ford74
Yes definitely, I reckon your bills will only get worse as the mileage mounts

I have a 4.5 yr old Espace 2.2dcii 65000 miles which has been diagnosed with a split inlet manifold...needless to say Renault Customer Services couldn?t care less despite this obviously being a manufacturing fault.

Have you experienced such problems and do you know what would cause such problems?

Renault customer services stink - look at this link www.renault4.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2061

Renault fill the bottom three places (out of 90,000 Models apparently) in the Which? Car Customer Satisfaction Survey - The Espace coming last - when are Renault going to do anything to make sure that customers buy another Renault? I am going to change my car...guess what I?ll NEVER buy another Renault.
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - rags
We have a 3.0 DCI with intermittent loss of power etc. The problem was fixed by replacing the fuel pump and related parts. Cost £4K plus. Renault UK refused to compensate so we have sued them and the garage from which we bought the vehicle. The case in the small claims court is coming up and will be heard this month.

Guesss what, we won't be buying another Renault.

See the related posts on Renault Espace 2003 3.0 DCI Turbo Failure, Thread Author Garrett Barker.

Rags.
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Fen boy
Hi i've just read through a lot of the threads on this site and it seems a lot of others have had the same problem as we have got ... whilst driving along it will just die , coast to a stop .. restart and it will normally start up again and may be ok then for a few days ... highly dangerous in the fast lane of a motorway ! seems that people have spent oodles of dosh at renault garages only to have the same thing happen again soon afterwards .... has anyone found a long term cure ? ours is a 2002 2.2 diesal race
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Collos25
The only long term cure for this fault is to sell it.
Diesel Problem - EGR Valve - summerisle
Wish I'd come across this a couple of years ago before I bought the dreaded Mk3 Espace 2.2 dci

Mine is now in limp mode with intermittent black smoke coming out the back.

My normal garage has had a look and says the EGR valve is in a bad way although theres nothing to say that once that is remedied other troubles dont lie head. In fact he has gone as far to say that he doesnt want to tackle it

The car doesnt owe me anything so I am considering cutting my losses as I could see myself putting £1000 into this when the car is plummetting in price

Any views would be appreciated
Diesel Problem - EGR Valve - achester
I had a cut out problem with an Espace 2.2 DCI at high speed in the fast lane of the motorway yesterday. Very dangerous. It then continued to cut out about every ten minutes for the rest of the journey. I found that I could carry on without stopping by driving slowly and switching the ignition switch back one and then on again. But of course this is a risky thing to be doing as you could accidently turn it all the way off and lock the steering :-(

I have also had many other very expensive problems with this car and also a Laguna.

This problem is well known and I think Renault are an utter disgrace. I will never buy another Renault and will discourage everyone I know from doing so. Don't be tempted by any of their new cars. They look nice but Renault have one of the worst reliability records of all manufacturers and treat their customers very badly when things go wrong. This issue should definately be featured on BBC WatchDog or somewhere as it is so dangerous.

For anyone that doesn't know, an EGR valve is controlled by the engine management system and it diverts some of the exhaust gas (which is effectively an inert gas incapable of combustion) into the air inlet under certain conditions. It does this to lower the combustion temperature. Their are two reasons for doing this. One is to lower the NOX emissions and the other is to keep the combustion temperature down to protect engine components, particularly the turbo.

After reading this post (and others) I took out the EGR valve and sure enough it was very badly clogged with thick, sludgy oil. I believe the source of this oil is a leaky seal in the turbo. I would guess that there is nothing wrong with the valve other than this.

I cleaned it with parafin and also cleaned as best I could in the hole that it came out of (I am sure a professional mechanic would dismantle the whole body and clean it properly).

From what I could see I would say almost definately that the valve was stuck almost, if not completely, closed. So possibly the problem with the engine cut out under heavy load was due to a component somewhere overheating (the engine coolant wasn't overheating though).

I will know if this has fixed the problem when I drive the car on the motorway on Monday.

I have worked professionally on engine management software and vehicle diagnostics and I would definately discourage blanking off the exhaust gas as a solution to this problem (as some people are suggesting). If my diagnosis is correct, then this will actually make the problem no better (or even worse if the valve wasn't completely blocked before).

For anyone that wants to try cleaning the EGR valve themselves, it is located under the air filter, on the left of the inlet pipe. It is secured by three 10mm bolts (you will need a miniture socket set with extensions and a universal joint thingy as they are quite tricky to access). I found that, due to the gunge, it was very difficult to extract the valve and it needed a lot of twisting and pulling.

I have not experienced the power loss due to limp-home mode being entered but maybe this is the next stage, or a variation of the problem. Possibly the vehicle diagnostics has detected that the EGR valve is malfunctioning. But it is also possible that another component has been blocked or damaged.

Perhaps the solution (for people who would prefer to keep their car) is to have the EGR valve regularly cleaned (say once a year).

Hope this has helped someone.








Diesel Problem - EGR Valve - achester
Correction to my last post - the EGR valve is on ther right of the inlet pipe not the left.
Diesel Problem - EGR Valve - focusman
hi
i have just read through these posts
thank goodness i don't own one a renault diesel.
reading through it it would seem to be a good idea to put all the pieces that have seemed to do some good into a diy guide for the people willing and competent to try for themselves.
i have put together some of the points i have read which seem to other hope of fixing the problem.

perhaps the first thing, if under warranty get it back to renault as soon as. let them have the problem.

if not here is a list of fixes.

from espace problem's post.
hi have a 2.2dci espace with the cutting out problem 95000mls i fix cars my self so investigated this little problem i cleaned my egr valve as it was blocked
changed all filters but still cut out so when the problem ocours usualy on idle or comoing to a stop or coming down gears i found that the wiring must be at fault so had a chat with a good mate about it so phoned renault read the fault to them i must say this it is a common fault with all espaces and some 2.2dci motors here goes hope this helps eveyone when the car cuts out it sometimes starts and others it will not THE ANSWER at the high pressure air conditioning pipe on the compresser the thick black pipe if you look down at the rear of the atlrternator you will see many black insulted cable protectors follow the high pressure pipe down you will see the the protector for the injector power supply is chaffing against the high pressure aluminium pipe this in turn chaffed the protective shield to the wiring this shorts out the injectors or injector giving the ecu a fault code that it has a injector fault what to do is remove the steel bracket from the powersteering pump to the throttle body hives room to get hand down then remove the small bracket supporting the high pressure pipe at this stage you can pull the harness away from the pipe you may notice that the protective shield around the wiring has rubed through remowe this turn the protective shield around and reroute the wiring away from the pipe and any other metal parts . I HAVE DONE THIS TO MY OWN ESPACE AND IT WORKS PERFECT NO MORE CUTTING OUT it seems that the aluminium pipe shorts out the electric supplyto the injectors ihope this helps as renault know about this but not all dealers.

from various posts
clean out the egr valve

from h man post
my espace 2.2 cdi 2001 with the g9t motor cut out when on auto routes.
i have just replaced the tdc sensor and also about 7 inches of loom from the sensor and the motor seems alot smoother and pulls better and hasn't cut out yet!!!
i have the renault part no. for both items;

sensor 7701477748

loom 8200300322

it seems odd that the do a section of wiring, and possible they have had trouble in the past.


lastly, use good quality fuel. give it a treat with shell optimax or bp ultimate every now and then.

i know this is not a complete answer to the problem and it would be better done by someone with first hand knowledge of this, who has worked the problem.

hope this helps some


Edited by Webmaster on 27/04/2009 at 01:46

Diesel Problem - EGR Valve - rennoschmeno
Focusman,

I have had a bit of trouble understanding your post. Can you just provide a step by step approach to solving this problem as I think it sounds that it will stop my problem of engine cut out when coasting to stop at lights.

Also what is "limp mode"?

Many Thanks.

Mega Snipquote!!!!

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 16/05/2009 at 21:23

Diesel Problem - EGR Valve - focusman
hi
rennoschmeno
all i have done after reading through all the post was to try and put them together in some logical way so if you had the egr problem you could approach in the right order. i tried to put the items which have little or no costs involved before going onto the dearer fixes.
as i posted i do not have an espace and that someone who as an espace and has first hand knowledge of fixing this problem would be the ideal person to do a definite approach to the problem as i might/probably have missed some important point. so what i would do if it was my problem would be to sit down with a pen and paper and read through all the post on this problem noting the fixes that have worked for different people then put them in a cost order. then work through the list on your espace hopefully it can be fixed before it gets to the dearer manufacturers costs.
i take it your espace is out of warranty

what is limp mode (the following is from wikianswers)
Your engine management and maybe even your transmission is controlled by the ECU. As you know, all computers crash, all software has bugs, and mechanical equipment fails. As such, many ECU units are fitted with a 'limp home mode'. When it detects that something semi-serious is wrong, it enters the limp mode, which means that the engine won't rev beyond a pre-programmed speed, you can't accelerate very fast, or you may indeed be speed-restricted to 40 mph or similar. The transmission may even stay in one or two gears. Bad? Well, no, not really: The alternative would be to either let you drive at regular speeds, with the danger of letting you trash your car (expensive repair, means happy repair people, but angry driver), or stopping you from going anywhere (expensive recovery and stranded on the side of the road means happy recovery company, but angry driver).
hope this is a bit clearer
Diesel Problem - EGR Valve - pebpcm
I had similar issues.

X reg DCI Expression 2.2

62K miles.

Car started to fault 2 years ago with the engine warning light and loss of power.

Recently failure caused car to stop entirely and had to let car to settle for 5 mins before retrying. Went to main dealer 3 times each time unable to find the fault. Did not stop them charging me for new glow plugs. (£200)

Ended up selling car to dealer for cash still a loss on the deal but at least I can look for a reliable car.

Diesel Problem - EGR Valve - mattwade21
After reading this post (and others) I took out the EGR valve and sure enough
it was very badly clogged with thick sludgy oil. I believe the source of this
oil is a leaky seal in the turbo. I would guess that there is nothing
wrong with the valve other than this.


Snipquote - please don't quote the whole message you're replying to; a brief summary is enough

I have the same problem - car cuts out (not when cold) as soon as any pressure is put on the engine turn the ignition on and off immediately and it works again for a little longer. Drive the car really really gently (inc no overtaking or uphill driving) and it doesnt do it. Been to renault they ran a diagnostic check and replaced the fuel temp sesor (why as this could not have caused the issues I described). Now been to a diesl specialist who worked on the car for free - thank you Marc from Parkinsons Grimsby - but cant eb sure of whats the cause. Replaced the fuel filter now thinking about the injectors - but replace or recon ? Recon may not sort a hairline crack ?

Lots of people talk EGR valves but a few people I have spoken to dont believe this would be the issue - but people who are talking about replacing them or cleaning them - on this forum - are not coming back to tell us if it works - if you find a resolution please come back and let us all know.

I want to know if I should look at the EGR first etc etc

Thanks

Matt

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 27/07/2009 at 13:29

Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Fen boy
My 2.2 dti espace is getting worse now , i can only keep it going by using very light acceleration, if you put your foot down a bit to hard it will just die ! if you turn the key off and back on quickly it will run again
something i discovered by accident today ... on the bulkhead behind the battery is an electrically operated vacuum switch the outlet of which goes down to the turbo , i forgot to put the connector back before i did a ten mile trip and found that the power was very poor as though the turbo wasn't doing anything , but it didn't cut out once ! are there any diesel experts out there who might know why this should happen ?
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - achester
I think I may have the solution to your problem and possibly others on this thread.

To answer you question about the vacuum switch first: the wastegate (which basically limits the turbo power to prevent the turbo and engine overheating (by wasting a portion of the exhaust gas which powers the turbo)) is operated by a vacuum valve. If this valve is not supplied with a vacuum feed the engine management system will de-rate the system. You wont get the cut out but neither will you get any useful power (I tried that !).

Here's my experience:
After many weeks of thrashing the car up and down the motorway at high speed, the engine cut out in the fast lane (see my earlier post for the details).

I cleaned the EGR valve which was almost completely blocked.

On the next long journey, the problem seemed to be fixed. However, after about 200 miles, the problem returned and got progressively worse.

I opened up the EGR valve again but it was clear.

The problem got worse and worse and the car was was virtually un-drivable, particularly as it would frequently cut out just after pulling away from a junction.

I ended up driving it at 65 mph in 3rd gear as it tended to cut out less. On the last journey down the motorway, white smoke started to billow out of the back. It wasn't until I reached my destination that I realised that it was not coming from the exaust. Diesel oil was leaking profusely from one of the injectors, dripping onto the hot engine casing and exhuast and vapourising. The back windscreen was soaked in diesel oil. This was not only dangerous for me (although to be honest I would have been quite happy if it had burst into flames :-) ) but also for other road users as diesel oil on the road is lethal.

I had the injector replaced and the problem disapeared. The injector specialist originally missed the hairline crack in the injector body as the injector only leaked at high pressure.

Here are the symptoms I was getting:
1. Engine cut out (noteably, this was a deliberate engine-management-system cut out because the red square fault indication lit and the engine would always re-start when the ignition was re-cycled). Originally only at high load but as the problem got worse, the cut out began to happen at progressively lower loads.
2. The EGR valve was blocked. Cleaning it initially helped but the problem returned and got progressively worse.
3. There was evidence of a leaky turbo bearing as there was a film of oil in the intake pipe and the EGR was blocked by thick sludgy burnt oil.
4. The problem was definately temperature related. The problem began in early Spring and on cool evenings it was significantly reduced. When I operated the back windscreen washer the problem reduced (I believe this was because the front headlamps were also washed and the water splashed into the engine compartment and over the injector). The worst scenario of all was after coming off the motorway. This was the heat inertia effect - ie engine still emitting a vast quantity of heat but no high speed airflow to disipate it.

Here is my theory about what happened to cause the problem:
1. The turbo bearing sprung a small oil leak.
2. Small quantities of oil leaked into the EGR exaust gas, which eventually blocked the EGR valve.
3. With the EGR valve out of action, the engine ran hotter than normal and one of the injectors developed a heat induced crack (note how enclosed, confined and insulated the area around the injectors is on this vehicle and note the position of the exhaust manifold and remember that heat rises).
4. Cracks will open at high pressure (high load) and close at lower loads. Heat induced cracks will also open and close as the temperature varies.
5. The engine management system will definately be checking for high presure diesel leaks and will definately cut the engine if it detects one as this is a potentially lethal event.
6. Initially there will be very little evidence of a leak because the system cuts the pressure as soon as a leak is detected,
7. Cleaning or replacing the EGR valve may initially seem to solve the problem because the engine will start to run cooler again. However the damage is already done and can only get worse. (many posts report that an EGR clean/replace only temporarily fixes the problem).

Here is my recomendation for solving the problem:
1. As an emergency "get home" or as a way of diagnosing the problem you could remove the bonnet as this will provide plenty of ventilation in the area that needs it. I have never tried this and there may be a good reason not to do this that I haven't thought of though (especially if it's raining).
2. Clean the EGR valve (don't waste money having it replaced). See my earlier post and others. Have it regularly checked / cleaned.
3. Check for the tell tale sign of oil in the inlet pipe and the EGR pipe.
4. If none of the injectors appear to be leaking then run the vehicle for several miles in a low gear at high speed and check again.
5. If you find a leak, you may want to consider finding a second hand injector as the new ones are over £200.
6. Do not mess around with the injection system if you do not know what you are doing -the fuel rail is at a very high pressure and acidents can be fatal.

Just a few other points from reading other post on this and other threads:
1. I think it very unlikely that an EGR fault will result in an engine-management-system engine cut out event. This is very drastic action that is not waranted by an EGR fault. EGR valves are not life and death, they reduce emissions and prevent the engine from overheating. High pressure fuel leaks and engine cut outs are life and death events.
2. In my opinion, blanking off the EGR valve will worsen this problem not cure it.
3. EMS cut out could happen for a variety of safety related problems so I think it's very probable that some of the other people posting here will have different problems to mine but the same outcome (engine cut out).
4. I did find a short on one of the cables against the air-con pipe but it was the oil temp sensor (I think) and it didn't solve the cut-out (remove the bottom cover to get access). The boost pressure sensor is also here and could also short.
5. In my opinion, don't waste money changing the TDC sensor. The problem (I think) was a leaky connector not the cable or sensor. If its leaking, clean it and use a sealant.
6. I never got around to buying a fault code reader to check the fault codes but my advice to any one is to treat every fault code with suspicion - they are very often false (I used to design engine management software).
7. When the engine cuts out, immediately push the clutch down. If you don't you are driving the injection pump under very unatural conditions and could cause some damage. You will also fill the engine management system with fault codes and probably end up in limp home mode which is no fun.

Hope this will help someone.
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Fen boy
Hi chester
thanks very much for all that information , i will be checking for any signs of a leak from the injectors tomorrow ! ... yes i've noticed oil in the intake pipe , i diconnected it where it comes back from the turbo on the right at the front of the engine ,it was spitting out a mist of oil ... do you think this being forced back into the engine would make much difference to the running temperature, i'll try fixing the bonnet open a few inches and removeing the padding from around the injectors to see if that alters things , as you sound to know about the workings of the ECU would you have any idea what is telling it to shut the engine down ..... would there be a heat sensor of some sort on the head do you think .......
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - achester
Hi Fen boy
No I dont think the oil in the intake will make any difference to the running temperature. I think the problem could be the oil that may be leaking from the exaust side of the turbo which could have clogged the EGR valve. This will make the engine run hotter at high load because this is when the EGR valve is used to reduce high combustion pressure peaks (which produce excessive heat).

I think the ECU may be shutting down because it has detected a high pressure fuel leak, possibly due to a hairline crack in one of the injectors.

I am guessing that the crack I had in the injector body was caused by it overheating, due to the EGR valve being blocked.

One thing that I have remembered is that on the motorway journey before the problem started, my windscreen washers were blocked. However I found that I could still wash the windscreen because what I assumed was the water from the headlight washers was appearing from under the bonnet and spilling over the windscreen. Did this water splash over a hot injector and crack it ? I suspect that this water may well splash onto the injectors because operating the headlamp washers did seem to reduce the cut out problem for a short while. Presumably the cold water cooled the injector and closed the hairline crack. So this is another possibility for how the injector body originaly cracked.
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Fen boy
HI achester you are right about the oil in the turbo pipe , i disconnected mine and tried it for a few miles with no turbo .... very poor acceleration and it still cut out , have checked for diesel leaks and cracks ,all seems to be in order , what we really need is a way of telling the ECU to mind it's own business ! , i don't mind if it wants to put a load of flashing lights on the dash , but to shut the engine is down right dangerous , is there any electronic experts out there who can do this i wonder ? ... mine is fine from cold for about the first mile ... then the cutting out starts !
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - achester
I think you may have the same problem I had - a very small crack in one of the injectors which starts to leak under high load until the ECU shuts down. I didn't notice any diesel leak either for the first few weeks of this problem. If this is your problem then the ECU is probably doing the right thing - ie you don't want diesel fuel everywhere including the road.
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - Big Shug
Thanks all for useful intelligence on this thread. Had a 51 plate 2.2dci The Race bought in 2004. Developed classic limp problem in Summer 2004. Renault garage in Inverary cleaned EGR and advised changing driving style, more aggressive and avoid low mileage runs. That worked. Then cut out problem in 2006. Traced to injectors. One leaking and one in a bad way. All four replaced and years of trouble free motoring.

Two weeks before driving holiday to France this summer drunk driver hit my car twice when it was parked outside the house. Write off. Pressure to get replacement. Got another 2.2dci The Race 02 plate.

This has developed a stall and lurching/juddering problem. Stalls for no reason when idling but no 'service' light. Cuts out when driving but can be 'bump' started on the move without touching ignition or anything (but scary as no power steering). Can drive for miles without a problem and then get back in and have a lurching problem. Goes from a mild lurch to a major thump. Guessing injectors again.
Diesel Problem - Limp Mode - AGK

Hi Guys New to this forum but VERY much hoping not going down same road.. We have bought a Renault Grand Espace 2.2 diesel automatic which has been modified at the rear to take a wheelchair. The back end goes down via a pump so the ramp drops and I can get the wheelchair in, its a 05 plate. We found if we drive it at 70mph it drinks the diesel like nothing so we keep it at around 60mph and use cruise control. Lately we have found that she was slow to pull away from traffic lights or junctions but because shes a big car and also has my husband at 24stone plus very heavy motorised wheelchair (200kg alone) we didnt expect it to race. We have just come back from scotland to wales taking 9hrs but got caught in traffic jam on M6 and had to crawl for nearly 2hrs and of course it drank the fuel so called in at services for top up, 90 mins later we we stopped at service for 30mins break. All seemed fine got up the motorway 15 mins later light came on as we went up incline and ilooking it up says either water in fuel filter or electronic problem call your dealer. The car then went into LIMP mode. Pulled over on very scary M4 and got rescued and home 4 hours later. They had to get a taxi as husband couldnt not get into rescue truck. Worried now that on very little monies coming in you are all saying this is going to cost us big, what is the best solution to this guys as now having to limp it to renault dealer on monday, as its not through motability.

Diesel Problem Vol2 - Hein70

This discussion started a looonnnnggg time ago but will add my two cents nonetheless just to confirm what was said earlier (in case someone else lands here). I had the same problem with my 2002 Espace III DCi, 165k miles, engine cutting out with no fault message, then restarted when flicking the ignition switch off/on, and the Renault garage was not able to find the problem ('time to get rid of the car'). Searching these forums led me to replace all the injectors and the problem was solved.

The Renault garage did do a diagnostic test on the injectors and the result was fine. So this fault (whereby one or more of the injectors returns too much fuel at certain loads as per other forum discussions) is not something the diagnostics pick up, nor does the onboard computer flag the issue as a fault when it happens. The engine simply stops dead with no error message on the dashboard at all.

I did discuss replacing the injectors with the Renault garage but the message was: difficult/impossible since it would be very hard to remove the injectors. Seized in place... So I did it myself. I even built a solid steel special tool to pull out the injectors but only after building this tool (a complete frame to sit over the cylinder head with pulley to grip and pull the injector) I realised that the injectors were actually very easy to extract!! Ordered new injectors, returned the old ones to get some money back and the engine runs absolutely fine. I think diesels should run till at least 200k miles...

Diesel Problem Vol2 - vmturbo

Firstly AFAIK the diesel injection systems are made by Bosch so one needs to go to a Bosch fuel injection expert NOT a car salesman. Some horror stories that I have come across:-

(1) The Citroen Picasso HDi which was refueled with DERV which had been carried in an old truck-cleaner container. The minute traces of detergent trashed the high pressure pump.

(2) The VW Caddy 1.9 TDi with the 110 BHP Audi engine (common rail and electronic injectors) Its Limp Home Mode kept kicking-in so it was taken to the Main Dealer. "Oh its your injectors" they said so the injectors were swapped for new ones. Unfortunately Limp Home Mode kept returning. The Main Dealer then replaced the camshaft but the fault returned. Next the cylinder head was replaced with a new one! This did not cure the fault but they then said "If you look on you last invoice there is a note stating that there might be a turbo fault". On the next visit the turbo was replaced. Expenditure so far about £3,500. I happened to spot a magazine article "110 BHP VW Audi Problems" and this revealed the most likely answer to the fault. Allegedly intense vibration from the engine can fracture the wires that go to the fuel injectors. The wires crack inside the plastic hence the breaks are not visible. The solution is to have a new plastic cradle and new wires every 30,000 miles whether it needs it or not. The parts cost is about £30 not £3,500! I suspect that this is what the Main Dealer did in the end as they refused to tell the punter what the fault actually was!

Getting back to Espaces, on the MK2 and MK3 diesel versions the Tank Sender can end up killing the car. The problem is cracking of the fuel pipe stubs and air getting into the fuel. Enthusiasts can repair these pipe stubs by using epoxy to glue-in copper repair tubes but the tank does have to come out.

A friend who has owned FOUR Espaces lost the first one to a garage. It was a MK2 that had had air in its fuel for ages. Months later when he went back to see how they were getting on, he discovered that they had scrapped it! They claimed that it was beyond economic repair. His second Espace, a scruffy MK2 was sold to me as a project vehicle. I also bought his third Espace which is a MK3 but it has been extremely troublesome with air in the fuel and now a burnt-out starter motor. The problem will of course turn out to be the Tank Unit. He still owns his fourth Espace which is the Grand version but once again air in the fuel has been a problem. He took it to a garage that used to be good but its all new people there now and they couldn't handle it. After two or three days of messing about they had just changed the primer bulb and they said that that was the fault. Unfortunately there is still lots of air in the fuel so they were out of their depth. Incidentally their fee was £130, Duh!

Allegedly those tank units are made from plastic which is not 100% resistant to diesel fuel.

Diesel Problem Vol2 - vmturbo

My very limited experience of Main Dealers is that most of them can only do simple things like changing the oil and brake pads and stamping the guarantee books. Take the case of a petrol Audi 100 that I bought cheaply because of an intermittent fault. The car could travel over a hundred miles OK but then suffer power loss. Later it was discovered that the car had beaten FOUR previous owners and their garages (five actually including the man who sold me the car) The fuel injection was the fairly simple analogue Bosch K Jetronic but the dealers foreman told me that getting to the bottom of the problem would cost more than the car was worth! In the end the fault was merely a perished O ring in the Primary Pressure Regulator. The trick was that cold petrol is more viscous than warm petrol so the car would run OK until the petrol warmed-up and became "thinner".

I found the fault and fixed it myself but what surprised me was that the Main Dealer that had typists, salesmen and a small army of mechanics couldn't do it!

Most fuel injection systems are made by Bosch so really one needs to go to a Bosch Fuel Injection Specialist. Of course if the car is still under guarantee who pays?

Like that infernal Audi it is possible that thermal effects are a distinct possibly so the car will have to be driven, NOT tested on tick-over on the garage computer. When I was baffled by that Audi trouble I was informed that it was a job for a Master Technician and the fees (it was a long time ago) were £120 per hour. Allegedly the Master Technician was always extremely busy and it appeared that he had got a job for life driving other people's cars whilst a laptop was connected to the diagnostics.

Apart from thermal effects there is a slight possibility that the battery voltage might have something to do with it. (it will rise on a long journey)

Good luck!

Diesel Problem Vol2 - focussed

Reading this thread has cured me of any desire to own a Renault of any description.

I talked to a guy who owned a diagnostic workshop a few years ago, he was of the opinion that Renault electronics were actually programmed to fail so as to make work for the dealers. He said that certain models were throwing up the same faults at the exact same mileages-it was the only sensible conclusion he could come to given the evidence.

 

Value my car